jrstang473
New member
Brandon Nixxon and Jendee have always been super nice to me. I have snakes from both of them. I trust them both a lot more than I trust a lot of people. But then again I am just a nobody.
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Bad Guy Manny Frade of Prefect Predators
- Thread starter jendee
- Start date
KORBIN5895
New member
You're a nobody with a higher trader rating than Manny though......
mikeadams
Bad Boy Constrictors
U go girl. Stand yr gound.
KORBIN5895
New member
You know I just checked your trader rating and all you have is one positive comment from a purchase you did over five years ago. I guess that really make you the man, huh?
Referring to a rating of another person opens the door to looking at evidence of how the opener has been rated; these while not official trader rated are ratings nonetheless:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/for...hread.php?t=358234&highlight=perfectpredators
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98656&highlight=perfectpredators
jendee
New member
Love how he says in here that he can wipe his a** with the boi! Which is the only jury system of the reptile community. Really putting faith in everybody here that they can trust you!! I still havent gotten word of when hes shipping my snake..he cpuld be dead...or sold for all I know at this point! Guess Ill continue to wait for manny to be an honest man and give me proof of wellbeing and date of shipment. until then all I can do is post this link every where on the net and print out link flyers for the up coming show because unlike all the people who emailed me about their manny frade horror stories I believe in taking a stand the jerks of our community need to be stopped people need to aware!! If people spoke up more I would have known about his business policies and I wouldnt be in this mess. Its my job as a member of the herp world to show people what manny is truely about. In recieving my boa hell "fix/end" it but the damage is done with me
GMTIRRILL
master of the "boathon"
jendee, this is a sucky situation that you are in and i hope you get your boa back. MR. Frade is not a good person and Karma from this BOI will come back to bite him hard.
To Mr Frade, no i have not done business with you and after reading this i probably never will. if you had a little class as breeder the moment things didn't pan out with the male you should have sent the boa back.
Durante
New member
As much as I want to suggest why I'm not a fan of loans (even with contracts) & usually rather deal with a smaller name because the personal attention usually lacks dealing with a business over someone with a hobby I cant over look some of the responses said here.
I never been a fan of the wording PP used to label a lot of het animals but it never differed me enough to not want to do business with them, such as the responses I read here no matter how nice some of the animals they have are.
I never been a fan of the wording PP used to label a lot of het animals but it never differed me enough to not want to do business with them, such as the responses I read here no matter how nice some of the animals they have are.
jendee
New member
Manny Frade
pulled from manny boas group just now
So I'm having this big battle with this Jendee person. She lends me a boa in 2012 and it didn't breed, then she convinced me to send her a VPI t-pos and I keep him for 2013. So I did, now she says she wants him back cause the VPI was for 2012, can someone read this FB thread and translate it? Cause she made a boi like I cheated her. Did I???
4 hours ago near Miami Springs, FL.
Bobby Williams
Sounds like the run around
4 hours ago via mobile..
Walt Finnegan
for real manny i would just send her snake wash your hands of the deal and cut your loses
4 hours ago via mobile · 4..
Ryan Anderson
I think you should cut your losses and send her back her boa Manny. I read that whole exchange yesterday. The whole thing confused me. You both kinda confused each other I think. Honestly, I think the fact that she felt like she wasn't getting regular updates from you made her contact you more often, which in turn created more opportunity for things to get confusing. You said yourself Manny that you sold over 500 boas this year. The loss of a VPI T+ to keep this situation from becoming a smear campaign would have made sense to me. Of course you already know you are the devil to her until she gets her squaretail back. I don't see this going away until that happens. I'm not saying she is right, i'm just being honest. I don't think she's going to stop, regardless of who is right or wrong. I hate to say it, but this situation reflects poorly on both of you as long as it goes unresolved. I'm certain that's not what either of you wanted.
3 hours ago via mobile · 2.
Manny Frade
Its not about smear or no smear, what i care the most is that people know im not a push over worried about my reputation. Im not running for congress, im running a reptile room and i can not be a push over. I'm a black and white kinda guy. And I agree with you in that its not worth the aggravation. But I don't like trying to be hussled. I don't see the difference between this and "this is a stick up, empty your wallets and give up your watch too. It's principal to a large degree for me. I've done nothing to her, one day she gets a wild hair and deal is killed?? well i paid!!...well she agreed to something and I paid upfront to boot. Give me back my T then lady and i'll gladly send you back your snake?!?!? Am i crazy?
2 hours ago · Edited · 2..
Manny Frade
Bobby Williams, whos running around?
3 hours ago..
Bobby Williams
She is
2 hours ago via mobile..
Brutal Boas
should set an example of being a professional as a top breeder and send her snake back
2 hours ago..
Manny Frade
Well i think she running straight at me actually. but i see your point. just wanted to be clear on those short replies.
2 hours ago..
Manny Frade
what example does that set?
2 hours ago..
Manny Frade
If someone robs your house would you show them the door and a cupcake or would you call the police or worse. what example is the better example to set? the example im going to set is, EXPECIALLY for her, she cannot keep doing deals with big name boa guys and then black mail them about the BOI or start smearing, if i send her back her Squaretail she got want she wants and shes learned nothing, this is not the 1st time she gets slick with big breeders, but i bet it could be her last, at least i hope. And thats the example i REALLY want to set, if people think im an A-hole or whatever so be it, I need to look at myself in the mirror and feel good about me.
2 hours ago · Edited · 1..
Brutal Boas
that in a fued that both sides have flaws and bad communication, you are the bigger man
2 hours ago..
Brutal Boas
bad, bad analogy lol
2 hours ago..
Manny Frade
its not a bad anology cause not returning my payment and pulling what she is attempting to pull is theft. Do you not see it that way??
2 hours ago..
Brutal Boas
not trying to start anything, I read the thread. My opinoin would be to be done with it and cut your losses. Bad press for you in my eyes. And you have great stuff for this hobby.
2 hours ago..
Walt Finnegan
give her an altimatom either send back your snake and you return hers or just call it an even trade
2 hours ago via mobile..
Manny Frade
no walt im not keeping her boa. thats not it either, im not trying to scam her of her boa, im just utilizing him the way we intended and the way i paid for him to be utilized. I will send him back when the breeding is done here. The season is young and she wants him back cause i bet she got a female she wants him on or something and thats cool but i paid for him, you want him NO PROBLEM, give me back my boa. I am not trying to hide from this to cover up my principals. my boas speak for themselves, i sell to people that dont like me on the daily, i bought and buy boas from breeders i dont necessarily like too, we all do, so i dont think i have to be liked or i have to like to love a boa. those personal things dont get involved in my decision making.
2 hours ago · 2..
Martyn Pinto
Ive always felt it better to buy a male or female than to borrow one for the season just because of the trouble it can cause for either side. Hope you can resolve the problem smoothly as possible.
2 hours ago · 3..
Manny Frade
I agree Martyn, Ive done 5 total breeder loans and ALL have gone so smooth, never a problem, but the difference is all with professionals, I took a chance and now im paying the consequences. This is why few give people chances, not just in this hobby but in many facets of life. its the proverbial, no good deed goes unpunished. lesson learned for sure.
2 hours ago · 3..
Walt Finnegan
i say that at least once a day every good deed is indeed punished lol
2 hours ago via mobile · 1..
Walt Finnegan
well good luck manny i hope it gets settled soon for both parties
2 hours ago via mobile · 1..
Jeremy Leperson
Only thing I really see that was jacked up on your part was sending her a boa you both didn't agree to, but i think she forfeited her cause when she sold it. I hope the male produces viable offspring and this whole thing can be resolved. I do understand why you say you only deal with professionals, because it seems the whole thing went south when people started assuming. What is that saying..."Assumption is the mother of all...what?"
2 hours ago · Edited..
Manny Frade
Jeremy i had sent her a picture of a female and we agreed on a male, there was only 1 male in the litter.
2 hours ago · 1..
Manny Frade
only had 1 male in that litter, there were male aztec vpis, females aztec vpis, hytecs, aztecs, 1 male vpi, only 18 total babies, that was just the odds. next answer. her male was a younger male longshot, 3 total, he does like some young males do, start off great and lose steam. im hoping he does different this year. I sent her pictures of every breeding, she has them. the slugs were discarded by my cage cleaner, he notated it and as he had no knowledge of the male, or who breds what or belongs to whom. if those litters dropped how much money is anyones guess. but nothing dropped so no money was made, thats a moot point.
2 hours ago..
Martyn Pinto
im a rather trusting person and have learned many a hard lesson when it comes to lending people things over the years. Im not so quick to lend these days.
2 hours ago..
Jeremy Brunson
Manny , both of you are angry at each other. I am not here to play sides or cast blame. Just from one man to another we both know it is almost impossible to find a resolution when you are angry.
about an hour ago · 9..
Jeremy Wrede
Looks like the postings are starting to disappear into the wind...
29 minutes ago..
Manny Frade
Jeremy Wrede, if i answer your question and you dont wanna answer mine but turn it into a biased attack, with an agenda, i dont care if someone doesnt agree with me, you dont totally either, its cool- we can start another thread on that, not going to have another PD het story board that went sideways on a happy moment for someone that contributes alot here, not gonna happen.. Simple thread, define the picture...
11 minutes ago · Edited
pulled from manny boas group just now
So I'm having this big battle with this Jendee person. She lends me a boa in 2012 and it didn't breed, then she convinced me to send her a VPI t-pos and I keep him for 2013. So I did, now she says she wants him back cause the VPI was for 2012, can someone read this FB thread and translate it? Cause she made a boi like I cheated her. Did I???
4 hours ago near Miami Springs, FL.
Bobby Williams
Sounds like the run around
4 hours ago via mobile..
Walt Finnegan
for real manny i would just send her snake wash your hands of the deal and cut your loses
4 hours ago via mobile · 4..
Ryan Anderson
I think you should cut your losses and send her back her boa Manny. I read that whole exchange yesterday. The whole thing confused me. You both kinda confused each other I think. Honestly, I think the fact that she felt like she wasn't getting regular updates from you made her contact you more often, which in turn created more opportunity for things to get confusing. You said yourself Manny that you sold over 500 boas this year. The loss of a VPI T+ to keep this situation from becoming a smear campaign would have made sense to me. Of course you already know you are the devil to her until she gets her squaretail back. I don't see this going away until that happens. I'm not saying she is right, i'm just being honest. I don't think she's going to stop, regardless of who is right or wrong. I hate to say it, but this situation reflects poorly on both of you as long as it goes unresolved. I'm certain that's not what either of you wanted.
3 hours ago via mobile · 2.
Manny Frade
Its not about smear or no smear, what i care the most is that people know im not a push over worried about my reputation. Im not running for congress, im running a reptile room and i can not be a push over. I'm a black and white kinda guy. And I agree with you in that its not worth the aggravation. But I don't like trying to be hussled. I don't see the difference between this and "this is a stick up, empty your wallets and give up your watch too. It's principal to a large degree for me. I've done nothing to her, one day she gets a wild hair and deal is killed?? well i paid!!...well she agreed to something and I paid upfront to boot. Give me back my T then lady and i'll gladly send you back your snake?!?!? Am i crazy?
2 hours ago · Edited · 2..
Manny Frade
Bobby Williams, whos running around?
3 hours ago..
Bobby Williams
She is
2 hours ago via mobile..
Brutal Boas
should set an example of being a professional as a top breeder and send her snake back
2 hours ago..
Manny Frade
Well i think she running straight at me actually. but i see your point. just wanted to be clear on those short replies.
2 hours ago..
Manny Frade
what example does that set?
2 hours ago..
Manny Frade
If someone robs your house would you show them the door and a cupcake or would you call the police or worse. what example is the better example to set? the example im going to set is, EXPECIALLY for her, she cannot keep doing deals with big name boa guys and then black mail them about the BOI or start smearing, if i send her back her Squaretail she got want she wants and shes learned nothing, this is not the 1st time she gets slick with big breeders, but i bet it could be her last, at least i hope. And thats the example i REALLY want to set, if people think im an A-hole or whatever so be it, I need to look at myself in the mirror and feel good about me.
2 hours ago · Edited · 1..
Brutal Boas
that in a fued that both sides have flaws and bad communication, you are the bigger man
2 hours ago..
Brutal Boas
bad, bad analogy lol
2 hours ago..
Manny Frade
its not a bad anology cause not returning my payment and pulling what she is attempting to pull is theft. Do you not see it that way??
2 hours ago..
Brutal Boas
not trying to start anything, I read the thread. My opinoin would be to be done with it and cut your losses. Bad press for you in my eyes. And you have great stuff for this hobby.
2 hours ago..
Walt Finnegan
give her an altimatom either send back your snake and you return hers or just call it an even trade
2 hours ago via mobile..
Manny Frade
no walt im not keeping her boa. thats not it either, im not trying to scam her of her boa, im just utilizing him the way we intended and the way i paid for him to be utilized. I will send him back when the breeding is done here. The season is young and she wants him back cause i bet she got a female she wants him on or something and thats cool but i paid for him, you want him NO PROBLEM, give me back my boa. I am not trying to hide from this to cover up my principals. my boas speak for themselves, i sell to people that dont like me on the daily, i bought and buy boas from breeders i dont necessarily like too, we all do, so i dont think i have to be liked or i have to like to love a boa. those personal things dont get involved in my decision making.
2 hours ago · 2..
Martyn Pinto
Ive always felt it better to buy a male or female than to borrow one for the season just because of the trouble it can cause for either side. Hope you can resolve the problem smoothly as possible.
2 hours ago · 3..
Manny Frade
I agree Martyn, Ive done 5 total breeder loans and ALL have gone so smooth, never a problem, but the difference is all with professionals, I took a chance and now im paying the consequences. This is why few give people chances, not just in this hobby but in many facets of life. its the proverbial, no good deed goes unpunished. lesson learned for sure.
2 hours ago · 3..
Walt Finnegan
i say that at least once a day every good deed is indeed punished lol
2 hours ago via mobile · 1..
Walt Finnegan
well good luck manny i hope it gets settled soon for both parties
2 hours ago via mobile · 1..
Jeremy Leperson
Only thing I really see that was jacked up on your part was sending her a boa you both didn't agree to, but i think she forfeited her cause when she sold it. I hope the male produces viable offspring and this whole thing can be resolved. I do understand why you say you only deal with professionals, because it seems the whole thing went south when people started assuming. What is that saying..."Assumption is the mother of all...what?"
2 hours ago · Edited..
Manny Frade
Jeremy i had sent her a picture of a female and we agreed on a male, there was only 1 male in the litter.
2 hours ago · 1..
Manny Frade
only had 1 male in that litter, there were male aztec vpis, females aztec vpis, hytecs, aztecs, 1 male vpi, only 18 total babies, that was just the odds. next answer. her male was a younger male longshot, 3 total, he does like some young males do, start off great and lose steam. im hoping he does different this year. I sent her pictures of every breeding, she has them. the slugs were discarded by my cage cleaner, he notated it and as he had no knowledge of the male, or who breds what or belongs to whom. if those litters dropped how much money is anyones guess. but nothing dropped so no money was made, thats a moot point.
2 hours ago..
Martyn Pinto
im a rather trusting person and have learned many a hard lesson when it comes to lending people things over the years. Im not so quick to lend these days.
2 hours ago..
Jeremy Brunson
Manny , both of you are angry at each other. I am not here to play sides or cast blame. Just from one man to another we both know it is almost impossible to find a resolution when you are angry.
about an hour ago · 9..
Jeremy Wrede
Looks like the postings are starting to disappear into the wind...
29 minutes ago..
Manny Frade
Jeremy Wrede, if i answer your question and you dont wanna answer mine but turn it into a biased attack, with an agenda, i dont care if someone doesnt agree with me, you dont totally either, its cool- we can start another thread on that, not going to have another PD het story board that went sideways on a happy moment for someone that contributes alot here, not gonna happen.. Simple thread, define the picture...
11 minutes ago · Edited
meowmeowkazoo
New member
So...how about Jendee pays Manny the value of the free snake that she sold, and Manny sends her male back? 
Or what if she pays him half the value of the free snake since it was apparently meant to be payment for another year of breeding?
Or what if she pays him half the value of the free snake since it was apparently meant to be payment for another year of breeding?
jendee
New member
to mannys fb group thread that he blocked me and several friends from
this deal started in 2011 not 2012 you've had my guy for a very very long time.
I didn't make this boi to make you look like a cheat, I didn't manipulate anything everything posted was fact and conversations between us..no making up anything there
How am I robbing you, you have my boa!? and are pimping out his seed to whatever you wish
what am I black mailing you for exactly?? what was I after when I camer after such a big breeder?? not the vpi bc as you see in the screen shot I tried to buy him from you!!!!
I went to you bc I knew your a money man and youd put my guy on a female I could never ever afford creating a worlds first morph. I thought since you were high profile you wouldn't screw me but since and I quote mr. frade "I could wipe my a** with the boi" I was seriousl;y wrong there
utilizing my squaretail huh?? well we agreed on 1 female it truned into what 5?? your using him all right and using me.
Im not you I have a tiny collection..mostly males which is why I tried to do the loan thing. I just recently acquired an adult female which is where this whole she wants him back to breed him thing..excuse me I asked for back way before I got this female last week..and Im putting my male from mike Weitzman on her. my squaretail when he comes home is getting a long rest!! as im sure he needs it..again not you I care about my animals not out to make a billion litters mr. 500 plus breeders!!
professional, you are the professional in this..you know you should confire with me for everything..examples...Im putting another male in with your male to help the breeding, im putting him on 2 other females..alongh with what those females are....all 3 females slugged out on this day here are the pictures. you know the story what happened why didn't you follow the rules?? now when Im questioning suddenly your the victim...
"only had 1 male in that litter, there were male aztec vpis, females aztec vpis, hytecs, aztecs, 1 male vpi, only 18 total babies, that was just the odds"
wow busted again...you told me this exactly orginially, then the different male you sent me because mine was in "shed" was also from the same litter..
ha now we know why you refused to send me paperwork after I insisted what 5 times!!!
you sent me pictures of every breeding huh?? where are they?? inquiring minds would love to see this pictures you sent me, via fb, email, text post freaking service??
More freaking bull crap..its coming out your ears!! this is my problem this was my problems months ago. Nobody has any reason to trust you. Im passing up a possible 1.1 squaretail keywest babies..why..bc morphs don't matter..money doesn't matter...honest business does!!
AlexBurgos
New member
Well clearly anyone who has read this thread can see that Manny has lied and got caught numerous times in this exchange. It’s clear that integrity, attention to detail and careful planning is not a requirement to successfully breed boas? All it requires is to take a male to all your females and pray like a mofo? Jendee, your male may very well go into the breeding zone and never come out of it. It may die soon as its clearly running the gauntlet at this “big breeders” facility. Jendee go to the Texas show, you will find that if you don’t wear heels that day, this big breeder as you term him might not be so big across the table from you.
Manny was the one that offered the VPI, not greedy Jendee. Just for getting caught lying over and over again in this thread, Jendee should have her boa sent to her and the VPI as a consolation for the loss of enjoyment of her boa and nuisance this little breeder has put this woman through. Harsh penalties should be instituted on people who get caught in a lie. Nothing Manny says can be believed because he lied over and over again in this thread and got caught over and over again. I think the VPI and the return of Jendee’s boa is fair compensation to what she’s been put through by this unscrupulous man. Even if Manny told the truth two times here, he lied twenty times over and was stupid enough to get caught every time. What a role model for breeders, the industry and his children, “you gonna learn today” as Kevin Hart said, what a joke.
Manny was the one that offered the VPI, not greedy Jendee. Just for getting caught lying over and over again in this thread, Jendee should have her boa sent to her and the VPI as a consolation for the loss of enjoyment of her boa and nuisance this little breeder has put this woman through. Harsh penalties should be instituted on people who get caught in a lie. Nothing Manny says can be believed because he lied over and over again in this thread and got caught over and over again. I think the VPI and the return of Jendee’s boa is fair compensation to what she’s been put through by this unscrupulous man. Even if Manny told the truth two times here, he lied twenty times over and was stupid enough to get caught every time. What a role model for breeders, the industry and his children, “you gonna learn today” as Kevin Hart said, what a joke.
NixonRp
Member
Manny you are right my last litters were in 2010 but you have to look at that in context I don't work with hundreds of animals much like yourself.
Since you bring up an animal you had received from me how about the one I received from you with the over saturated photos which is why the animal is no longer in my collection. Simply put in the photo it looked great but once I received it looked nothing like it color wise which I'm sure alot of your customers can vouch for that themselves.
You have had a problem with me since I had sold that boa that I received from you in 2010.
By the way Manny it's funny you mention me so much the readers at home are going to begin to think we are in a relationship one thing you have forgotten is this thread is about YOU and the lying deceitful ways which are clearly evident here.
Lets not begin to talk about the wrong IMG het T that died shortly after it arrived that you sent out or the stacks of Vintage Manny Frade checks that never seem to pass through the bank when you attempt to purchase animals from other large breeders.
I am in this hobby for the love of the Boas which I doubt you can say for yourself at the end of the day these are just worms. Whether or not I have baby boas I will still keep them and can easily say I have boas you yourself will never have.
Have a good day "Money Manny" that is what they call you because your all about that MONAAAAYYYY
Since you bring up an animal you had received from me how about the one I received from you with the over saturated photos which is why the animal is no longer in my collection. Simply put in the photo it looked great but once I received it looked nothing like it color wise which I'm sure alot of your customers can vouch for that themselves.
You have had a problem with me since I had sold that boa that I received from you in 2010.
By the way Manny it's funny you mention me so much the readers at home are going to begin to think we are in a relationship one thing you have forgotten is this thread is about YOU and the lying deceitful ways which are clearly evident here.
Lets not begin to talk about the wrong IMG het T that died shortly after it arrived that you sent out or the stacks of Vintage Manny Frade checks that never seem to pass through the bank when you attempt to purchase animals from other large breeders.
I am in this hobby for the love of the Boas which I doubt you can say for yourself at the end of the day these are just worms. Whether or not I have baby boas I will still keep them and can easily say I have boas you yourself will never have.
Have a good day "Money Manny" that is what they call you because your all about that MONAAAAYYYY
jendee
New member
more from his boa group....anybody who disagrees with him in this group..the comments have been deleted and the person blocked from his group lmao
Jeff Williams
The shit just aint worth it. Never figured out why people have to be so difficult, Ive done a couple breeder loans, and never had a thing in writting, we acted like adults and split babies, both came out happy and enjoyed seeing what we collabed together on. And we are still great friends to this day. Dont matter the agreements whether verbal or written, you gotta trust the other person and they gotta give ya reason to. This isn't directed at either party just stating my 2 cents. Good luck to both of ya, try to make the best of it. Remember they are just snakes after all!
13 hours ago · 1..
Manny Frade
Can't agree with you more. Legacy reptiles has 2-3 animals of mine right now, dont even remember i trust them with my eyes closed. we did 1 last year too, I did 1 two years ago with Jeff Ronne. Nothing in writing like boa loving adults on a verbal, and we are all peas in a pod, any deal depends on what's in the heart of the person and their intentions. Contracts are worthless as the paper they're typed on. I feel like a mark in a dumb con
13 hours ago via mobile · 3..
Ryan Anderson
Both of you were wrong. Obviously there was a communication breakdown. I understand your point about her getting a t+ boa out of the deal, but I have to admit that at one point in the transcripts it does appear that you offer her compensation even though the moms slugged out. Where you made your biggest mistake is not documenting the slugs. If I had a loaner boa in my custody and the litters slugged out completely, I would absolutely want to document that for my partner in the breeding loan. You mentioned professionalism earlier, however you didn't extend any professionalism to her in that regard. Lets be fair here. You both screwed up. At this point you are just holding your own feet to the fire by staying associated with this conflict. I would run away from this if I were you. Give her back her boa and publicly admit a lesson learned (which you have already done). Don't let 1 T+ boa keep you from truly winning this battle in the long run. Consider it the cost of doing bad business and break free from this!
12 hours ago via mobile · 1..
Manny Frade
I have a helper and he has no clue about my dealings for 2 long a reason to list, but I'm sure you can imagine. I offered her something along the lines of a motley or dork thing to compliment something she was trying to pair and send her back her male. When she dropped the T bomb I questioned the sending Her back her male and the reply is above. Your partially right and partially wrong.
12 hours ago via mobile..
Another lie..you offered me what?? a motley no you offered me a vpi then when "rumor has it" you sold the vpi I wanted you tried to offer me a motley het sharp telling me it would be better deal for me. I said nah I just bought a visual sharp mot, Id rather stick to your original offer (all in emails in first post)
Manny Frade
Something not dork thing...lol
12 hours ago via mobile.
Kristen K O Overton
Read this debut battle on Fauna... I'd just say give her back her male and let the fighting end. There are other lenders in the sea.
10 hours ago..
Manny Frade
Kristin I am not arguing your sensible approach. It's seems to be everyone's consensus here, the easy route out, the right thing is never easy. If you really analyze this scenario the right thing is only 2 ways about it- 1 keep the deal as stands per the picture above or 2- give back the boa I sent in payment or rent or what term fits, then send her back her make with a lessor value boa as I had promised her originally. The argument everyone is making is "be done with it", "cut your loses" those are answers to a different question I did not ask, I am still looking for someone to answer the question I posed straight up...
10 hours ago via mobile..
hes not trying to be done with it or cut the losses simply because "money many" wants to make the first img x sqauretails, the first vpix sqauretails, the first keywestxsqauretails!! he wants to make my male breed over and over quickly before he sends him back so he can try and be famous with his boas...the only reason he has fans now is because he puts on a good show with all his litters(read back throught the original emails in the first post so you can find all the different females he mentioned in ideas for my guy although he never once gave me a concrete answer on what he did decide)
Kristen K O Overton
Honestly it's hard to tell because I've read from both sides of the story... It's good cop, bad cop if someone answers, if you agreed to give her a specific snake, then do so, but if she is not following through on her word, don't. It just boils down to basics. Right or wrong. No one can really answer that except for you. Ya know? Fair is fair, just don't screw someone over if they are not at fault, don't screw yourself. No one wants to be publicly bashed.
10 hours ago..
Kristen K O Overton
In the long run, is this VPI T+ that she is wanting so bad going to send you financially spiraling down the drain? Personally, my patience with people is about as long as my pinky, I couldn't have let it go on this long. Don't make any rash decisions, but it seems like this has gotten blown WAY out of proportion, so many people are involved now.
9 hours ago..
This is not about the vpi, he knows I don't have the vpi any longer so he is making it about that so he can continue breeding my boa. squaretail x keywest how much do you think those babies would be worth 3-4k or more its not about the vpi to him
Kristen K O Overton
In the long run, is this VPI T+ that she is wanting so bad going to send you financially spiraling down the drain? Personally, my patience with people is about as long as my pinky, I couldn't have let it go on this long. Don't make any rash decisions, but it seems like this has gotten blown WAY out of proportion, so many people are involved now.
9 hours ago..
Manny Frade
I sent her exactly what she asked for except it was not the same animal in the picture, cause the one in the picture was female and I had promised her/ she wanted male. She wanted that gene and that sex, in a litter of 18 total and 9 possible morphs can be born, the choice was 1. I think it is overlooking the point is its worth a lot more than her animal is so she is paid handsomely, only thing pending is of something comes of the breeding. Oh and 1 last thing, she alreadys been paid, she got it along time ago. And sold it as pocketed the $. My dad always says the analogy never pay the musicians before the party cause they don't play as good, man isn't my dad right...
9 hours ago via mobile · 1..
again busted, so now the animal in the picture was a female..first you told me my vpi was in "shed" so you couldn't ship now its because the sex was wrong!?! busted how many lies is that manny??? you also told me my male was from the same litter as the male you were supposed to send so 2 males in the litter?? or from a different litter the baby you sent me was awfully big..(again directing you to the original emails)
Kristen K O Overton
Agreed. It's a shot in the dark sort of thing. Honestly stuff like this should be in writing with signatures. Details down to the most miniscule of details, even if that means recording each individual turd, some people just need that type of structure. Good luck with this hassle!
9 hours ago · 1..
Manny Frade
I don't, never had to do that my breeding loans were all on a verbal. All went silky smooth. She offered this she could of drawn 1 up, she could of sent me back the tpos when it didn't satisfy her. Don't tell me I'm not happy but I'm keeping it and I'm gonna wanna break the deal... I guess it's cause I'm the one getting hustled that I can't see past this detail but if it were another person I just don't see how anyone can side with her. Don't see it, never will. Sending her back the boa just plays into her, I rather shelf him till may. I know I'm rolling in the mud with her here, but she just ran into the most stubborn SOB crazy enough to get dirty right with her and she's gonna learn to deal the right way.
9 hours ago via mobile..
I didn't draw up a deal because I assumed since you were a high profile guy, you would be professional and also assumed if it ever went south Id have the boi, but as you stated the boi is just peer pressure...so to future customers remember there is no justice system with this man he gets to do what he wants when he wants!! honesty is the right way and the only way wish you were taught that we wouldn't be going through this
Arno Naude
Before I spend this much time and energy on a simple thing like this I would give her what she wants (and more) and let karma sort out the rest. Its not about principles or agreements its about a learning experience. Get everything in writing or dont d...See More
5 hours ago · 1..
Ryan Anderson
I know it probably seems like some people are siding with her, and some probably are, but what they are really trying to say is "this is bad publicity". At some point you have to think about your business. Don't think that just because you breed smokin boas that your name and company won't be tarnished by this. It already has and it will get worse if you hold on to her boa for the rest of the breeding season. It doesn't matter how big you are, damage is still damage. Now that she has seen what big waves she can make, I guarantee you she isn't going to stop. There are always going to be haters Manny. You've got a solid reputation, but by holding on to her boa, it makes you appear to be the aggressor (and the money grubber) and she wins in the long run. If you give her back her boa now, she can't say a damn thing to knock you around anymore. It might be a year or 5 years from now, but this will likely come back to haunt you if you stick with it. You are chaining yourself to this situation. Don't do it man.
3 hours ago via mobile · 1
who said he has a solid reputation?? ask all of the big boys that have been around for 20 yrs this guy has been pulling this crap for decades?? They just don't like to get in messy boi threads because as everyone pointed out it hurts both parties,. I realize this but after finding out all this stuff about many Im like really?? this guy is truly like this and nobody is saying anything and bc nobody is saying anything people are getting screwed over and over! so whether it hurts me or not Im speaking out and Im showing everything he has said so possibly someone else will be saved from mannys scandaless business ways and his diarrhea of the mouth
I really don't have to be saying anything he is hanging himself, All Ive ever asked as for honesty..cant get it..give me my boa!!
Jeff Williams
The shit just aint worth it. Never figured out why people have to be so difficult, Ive done a couple breeder loans, and never had a thing in writting, we acted like adults and split babies, both came out happy and enjoyed seeing what we collabed together on. And we are still great friends to this day. Dont matter the agreements whether verbal or written, you gotta trust the other person and they gotta give ya reason to. This isn't directed at either party just stating my 2 cents. Good luck to both of ya, try to make the best of it. Remember they are just snakes after all!
13 hours ago · 1..
Manny Frade
Can't agree with you more. Legacy reptiles has 2-3 animals of mine right now, dont even remember i trust them with my eyes closed. we did 1 last year too, I did 1 two years ago with Jeff Ronne. Nothing in writing like boa loving adults on a verbal, and we are all peas in a pod, any deal depends on what's in the heart of the person and their intentions. Contracts are worthless as the paper they're typed on. I feel like a mark in a dumb con
13 hours ago via mobile · 3..
Ryan Anderson
Both of you were wrong. Obviously there was a communication breakdown. I understand your point about her getting a t+ boa out of the deal, but I have to admit that at one point in the transcripts it does appear that you offer her compensation even though the moms slugged out. Where you made your biggest mistake is not documenting the slugs. If I had a loaner boa in my custody and the litters slugged out completely, I would absolutely want to document that for my partner in the breeding loan. You mentioned professionalism earlier, however you didn't extend any professionalism to her in that regard. Lets be fair here. You both screwed up. At this point you are just holding your own feet to the fire by staying associated with this conflict. I would run away from this if I were you. Give her back her boa and publicly admit a lesson learned (which you have already done). Don't let 1 T+ boa keep you from truly winning this battle in the long run. Consider it the cost of doing bad business and break free from this!
12 hours ago via mobile · 1..
Manny Frade
I have a helper and he has no clue about my dealings for 2 long a reason to list, but I'm sure you can imagine. I offered her something along the lines of a motley or dork thing to compliment something she was trying to pair and send her back her male. When she dropped the T bomb I questioned the sending Her back her male and the reply is above. Your partially right and partially wrong.
12 hours ago via mobile..
Another lie..you offered me what?? a motley no you offered me a vpi then when "rumor has it" you sold the vpi I wanted you tried to offer me a motley het sharp telling me it would be better deal for me. I said nah I just bought a visual sharp mot, Id rather stick to your original offer (all in emails in first post)
Manny Frade
Something not dork thing...lol
12 hours ago via mobile.
Kristen K O Overton
Read this debut battle on Fauna... I'd just say give her back her male and let the fighting end. There are other lenders in the sea.
10 hours ago..
Manny Frade
Kristin I am not arguing your sensible approach. It's seems to be everyone's consensus here, the easy route out, the right thing is never easy. If you really analyze this scenario the right thing is only 2 ways about it- 1 keep the deal as stands per the picture above or 2- give back the boa I sent in payment or rent or what term fits, then send her back her make with a lessor value boa as I had promised her originally. The argument everyone is making is "be done with it", "cut your loses" those are answers to a different question I did not ask, I am still looking for someone to answer the question I posed straight up...
10 hours ago via mobile..
hes not trying to be done with it or cut the losses simply because "money many" wants to make the first img x sqauretails, the first vpix sqauretails, the first keywestxsqauretails!! he wants to make my male breed over and over quickly before he sends him back so he can try and be famous with his boas...the only reason he has fans now is because he puts on a good show with all his litters(read back throught the original emails in the first post so you can find all the different females he mentioned in ideas for my guy although he never once gave me a concrete answer on what he did decide)
Kristen K O Overton
Honestly it's hard to tell because I've read from both sides of the story... It's good cop, bad cop if someone answers, if you agreed to give her a specific snake, then do so, but if she is not following through on her word, don't. It just boils down to basics. Right or wrong. No one can really answer that except for you. Ya know? Fair is fair, just don't screw someone over if they are not at fault, don't screw yourself. No one wants to be publicly bashed.
10 hours ago..
Kristen K O Overton
In the long run, is this VPI T+ that she is wanting so bad going to send you financially spiraling down the drain? Personally, my patience with people is about as long as my pinky, I couldn't have let it go on this long. Don't make any rash decisions, but it seems like this has gotten blown WAY out of proportion, so many people are involved now.
9 hours ago..
This is not about the vpi, he knows I don't have the vpi any longer so he is making it about that so he can continue breeding my boa. squaretail x keywest how much do you think those babies would be worth 3-4k or more its not about the vpi to him
Kristen K O Overton
In the long run, is this VPI T+ that she is wanting so bad going to send you financially spiraling down the drain? Personally, my patience with people is about as long as my pinky, I couldn't have let it go on this long. Don't make any rash decisions, but it seems like this has gotten blown WAY out of proportion, so many people are involved now.
9 hours ago..
Manny Frade
I sent her exactly what she asked for except it was not the same animal in the picture, cause the one in the picture was female and I had promised her/ she wanted male. She wanted that gene and that sex, in a litter of 18 total and 9 possible morphs can be born, the choice was 1. I think it is overlooking the point is its worth a lot more than her animal is so she is paid handsomely, only thing pending is of something comes of the breeding. Oh and 1 last thing, she alreadys been paid, she got it along time ago. And sold it as pocketed the $. My dad always says the analogy never pay the musicians before the party cause they don't play as good, man isn't my dad right...
9 hours ago via mobile · 1..
again busted, so now the animal in the picture was a female..first you told me my vpi was in "shed" so you couldn't ship now its because the sex was wrong!?! busted how many lies is that manny??? you also told me my male was from the same litter as the male you were supposed to send so 2 males in the litter?? or from a different litter the baby you sent me was awfully big..(again directing you to the original emails)
Kristen K O Overton
Agreed. It's a shot in the dark sort of thing. Honestly stuff like this should be in writing with signatures. Details down to the most miniscule of details, even if that means recording each individual turd, some people just need that type of structure. Good luck with this hassle!
9 hours ago · 1..
Manny Frade
I don't, never had to do that my breeding loans were all on a verbal. All went silky smooth. She offered this she could of drawn 1 up, she could of sent me back the tpos when it didn't satisfy her. Don't tell me I'm not happy but I'm keeping it and I'm gonna wanna break the deal... I guess it's cause I'm the one getting hustled that I can't see past this detail but if it were another person I just don't see how anyone can side with her. Don't see it, never will. Sending her back the boa just plays into her, I rather shelf him till may. I know I'm rolling in the mud with her here, but she just ran into the most stubborn SOB crazy enough to get dirty right with her and she's gonna learn to deal the right way.
9 hours ago via mobile..
I didn't draw up a deal because I assumed since you were a high profile guy, you would be professional and also assumed if it ever went south Id have the boi, but as you stated the boi is just peer pressure...so to future customers remember there is no justice system with this man he gets to do what he wants when he wants!! honesty is the right way and the only way wish you were taught that we wouldn't be going through this
Arno Naude
Before I spend this much time and energy on a simple thing like this I would give her what she wants (and more) and let karma sort out the rest. Its not about principles or agreements its about a learning experience. Get everything in writing or dont d...See More
5 hours ago · 1..
Ryan Anderson
I know it probably seems like some people are siding with her, and some probably are, but what they are really trying to say is "this is bad publicity". At some point you have to think about your business. Don't think that just because you breed smokin boas that your name and company won't be tarnished by this. It already has and it will get worse if you hold on to her boa for the rest of the breeding season. It doesn't matter how big you are, damage is still damage. Now that she has seen what big waves she can make, I guarantee you she isn't going to stop. There are always going to be haters Manny. You've got a solid reputation, but by holding on to her boa, it makes you appear to be the aggressor (and the money grubber) and she wins in the long run. If you give her back her boa now, she can't say a damn thing to knock you around anymore. It might be a year or 5 years from now, but this will likely come back to haunt you if you stick with it. You are chaining yourself to this situation. Don't do it man.
3 hours ago via mobile · 1
who said he has a solid reputation?? ask all of the big boys that have been around for 20 yrs this guy has been pulling this crap for decades?? They just don't like to get in messy boi threads because as everyone pointed out it hurts both parties,. I realize this but after finding out all this stuff about many Im like really?? this guy is truly like this and nobody is saying anything and bc nobody is saying anything people are getting screwed over and over! so whether it hurts me or not Im speaking out and Im showing everything he has said so possibly someone else will be saved from mannys scandaless business ways and his diarrhea of the mouth
I really don't have to be saying anything he is hanging himself, All Ive ever asked as for honesty..cant get it..give me my boa!!
This is just a general observation: These threads will be here for a long time. Subsequent visitors to the site will see them, as well as people checking out the BOI as they consider future purchases.
There is no question that a written document describing exactly the nature, length, and responsibilities of each party in this loan would have been a good way to go.
Now that there seems to be a disagreement over terms, we get to see how each party behaves when something goes wrong.
The above quote does not appear to be any kind of attempt to forge a resolution. Again, long after this particular snake stays or is returned or whatever the ultimate outcome may be, these words are going to clue people about what they might be in for.
jch111078
Black Rose Constrictors
I am sorry to say manny has got himself caught in to many lies he quoyed he miss sexed and had 2 males now he says he semt her that male vpi due to the other being a female.... Sorrry my money will not be spent over at perfect predators, Liars and Theives are scum of the earth and I am sorry but someone is looking like pinochio
meowmeowkazoo
New member
I do have to agree on this one. I purchased a boa just a week or two ago from Perfect Predators and was disappointed in the color. The pictures of the animal made it look extremely orange, which was the main reason I purchased it. While it's still healthy and a nice animal, it's not nearly as colorful as the pictures made it look. I wasn't about to make a thread about it since I got it during the 50% off sale (you get what you pay for, I guess), but seeing it mentioned here, I had to say something.
Sarah, would you please be able to post the ad picture and your own picture of the snake you received?
I personally feel as if even if one gets a snake on sale, one should be able to depend on the picture of the animal by the seller as a valid representation.
jch111078
Black Rose Constrictors
I would love to see the pic as well, since this is nkt tthe first I have heard of this scenario with him either..