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MARK MILLER IS A THIEF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I spoke to a Topeka Police Detective today. The detective told me he had spoken with Mark. Mark informed him that we (Dustin & I) are in Breech of the contract.

This is the craziest thing I have ever heard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mark, there is not nor would there EVER have been a contract for you to breed OUR snakes. Let alone get half. You know you are wrong that is why you wont answer the phone.
 
Ray, I would push this issue as far as you can. In addition, I would print off the other complaints about Mark that are on this forum. Hopefully, somewhere in the middle of this information the detective will be able to see the light of day. I wish you luck.

Bob
 
Our motley male was supposed to be bred to a sunglow female. This did happen and a succesfull liter was the outcome. These were split up according to the contract.

Our snow female was supposed to be bred to Marks motley male het-albino. This DID NOT HAPPEN. Mark then placed OUR motley male in with OUR snow female. A successfull litter occured. Mark took what he wanted from OUR litter of babies and then sent us the rest.
 
I think if you want the snakes you will need to take a copy of all of your communications and the contract down to Topeka and talk to the Police Detective in person.
Perhaps he would even be willing to meet you at Miller's residence.
 
John E Dove said:
I think if you want the snakes you will need to take a copy of all of your communications and the contract down to Topeka and talk to the Police Detective in person.
Perhaps he would even be willing to meet you at Miller's residence.
Click to expand...

At this point it becomes more of a civil matter and I think the detective would likely suggest you handle it through those channels.
 
John E Dove said:
I think if you want the snakes you will need to take a copy of all of your communications and the contract down to Topeka and talk to the Police Detective in person.
Perhaps he would even be willing to meet you at Miller's residence.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Might want to get on it fairly soon, I know he had the kinked neo at the show this past weekend, so might try flipping them before you ever get a chance to get them.
 
I don't have anything new to add to this thread, but I wanted to take a minute to come on here and support Ray in this dealing. Ray is one of the most honest and friendly people I have come across in this hobby and it bothers me to see him taken advantage of by Mark Miller.

Mark, I suggest you give Ray back HIS babies and try to salvage any little part of your reputation that may be left. Ray mentioned to me that they were all his babies, but that they were going to give you something for your trouble because they are good people and wanted keep a good business relationship with you. Too bad you turned out to be a thief and didn't even give them a chance to extend this offer to you. What goes around comes around Mark. This will all catch up with you eventually and when it does, you won't have anyone left to bail you out.

Best of luck Ray, and please let me know if there is anything I can do.

Matt Crabe
 
I think he will try to sell them. That is why I am trying to get the word out so hopefully no one will buy them. Mark is hurting for money and I wouldn't put anything past him.

Thanks Matt!!!
 
As Sam said, Mark's breach of the contract is a civil matter.

However, it seems to me that if Ray can prove that X number of babies were born of the unauthorized breeding of Ray's own animals under Mark's control, and Mark sells the babies he unlawfully kept, then Mark might also be guilty of theft by taking.

Persons buying .... guilty of receiving stolen goods?
 
Not sure how this will end up but i had a message on my answering machine today when i came home from Mark Miller asking for my info so he can issue a refund to me.
I will keep everyone posted on how things turn out.
Todd Peddle
 
Randall,

You didn't happen to get a picture of the male with the kink?

Laura,

Anyone who does aquire them in any way is guilty of receiving stolen property. I have a hunch one or both of them have already been sent to a good friend of Mark. I wont say the name until I have proof, but when I do get proof everyone will know.
 
rockyballboa said:
Not sure how this will end up but i had a message on my answering machine today when i came home from Mark Miller asking for my info so he can issue a refund to me.
I will keep everyone posted on how things turn out.
Todd Peddle
Click to expand...


Very interesting... Promise's, promise's.
 
raybueno said:
Anyone who does aquire them in any way is guilty of receiving stolen property.
Click to expand...

Ray, while I agree with you that he doesn't have a valid claim on the snakes he kept, your statement is not quite factual. At this point it hasn't been established from a legal standpoint that the snakes are stolen property. Currently it is your word against his in the courts eyes in regards to what your agreement was and until it is decided by a judge that the snakes he kept are in fact your property I feel you would be hard pressed to find a prosecutor willing to charge someone with "receiving stolen property".
 
mdc said:
I don't have anything new to add to this thread, but I wanted to take a minute to come on here and support Ray in this dealing. Ray is one of the most honest and friendly people I have come across in this hobby and it bothers me to see him taken advantage of by Mark Miller.

Mark, I suggest you give Ray back HIS babies and try to salvage any little part of your reputation that may be left. Ray mentioned to me that they were all his babies, but that they were going to give you something for your trouble because they are good people and wanted keep a good business relationship with you. Too bad you turned out to be a thief and didn't even give them a chance to extend this offer to you. What goes around comes around Mark. This will all catch up with you eventually and when it does, you won't have anyone left to bail you out.

Best of luck Ray, and please let me know if there is anything I can do.

Matt Crabe
Click to expand...

I will agree to everything that Matt has said here, Ray and his brother are both STAND UP guys! I have had several business dealings with them,which have resulted in us becoming very good friends over the last couple years. I will not bore you all with too many details,but during one of the above mentioned business dealing, I ran into financial problems(divorce will do that to you) and was unable to pay for the animals in the time that we had agreed upon...to make a long story short....they REFUSED to take the animals back, and allowed me ALL the time I needed to finish paying for the them....WHO DOES THAT???!!!!

These two guys are honest...PERIOD!!! They have integrity that is only surpassed my their kindness and willingness to HELP someone when they are down on their luck....I count myself lucky to know them.

I am VERY familiar with this whole deal, and was present for much of the conversation,before,during and after and will be happy to testify in a court of law as to what I heard, both in person,and over the phone from MARKS OWN LIPS. Anyone wanting more info,please feel free to contact me.

Israel, "SharpExotics"
 
Gecko_Den said:
Ray, while I agree with you that he doesn't have a valid claim on the snakes he kept, your statement is not quite factual. At this point it hasn't been established from a legal standpoint that the snakes are stolen property. Currently it is your word against his in the courts eyes in regards to what your agreement was and until it is decided by a judge that the snakes he kept are in fact your property I feel you would be hard pressed to find a prosecutor willing to charge someone with "receiving stolen property".
Click to expand...

Even if it couldn't be prosecuted wouldn't you feel bad getting something you knew DID NOT belong to the person selling it to you. I for one would NEVER knowingly do this. Aquring anything this way shows what kind of ethics, morals, and integrity you have.
 
Considering that the contract stated that Marks animal would be bred to Ray's, and that did not occur, I don't see where he would have a claim to the animals. Considering this, I believe that it would be considered recieving stolen property if someone bought them.
 
heathn said:
Considering that the contract stated that Marks animal would be bred to Ray's, and that did not occur, I don't see where he would have a claim to the animals. Considering this, I believe that it would be considered recieving stolen property if someone bought them.
Click to expand...


I concur.
 
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