Mark Miller (loco-lizards) - Bad Guy !

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

I am writing this because I feel people should beware of the business practices of this breeder / seller and member of a few forums as well as a sponser on one. Mark Miller of Locolizards in Kansas, USA is a person who can not be trusted and I will prove this here. Because this will be rather long I may have to break it up a bit in a few posts. I have spread the word across many forums that I was going to make a BOI post on him and he is well aware of this as well. Because I am tried of the lies and excuses he has given me for one year I feel, after I get my rightful refund from him that does not buy my silence on this issue. I am owed more than my refund because it is still one year of an investment that I am owed. But I will not go into that at the moment. Now I will expose Mark Miller as a thief and a breeder / seller that should not be trusted both in USA and internationally. I guess I could have copy / pasted the emails but this method I am showing you shows it is legit.

Below I will give you all a full view of my business dealings with him and show you all that if you plan on dealing with him to be aware of what you’re getting into.

Any specific personal details was made available by Mark Miller off his website, anything blacked out is personal. Related to me or other people’ s information as they do not need to listed with personal information other than names.

Mark Miller
815 SW 3rd Street.
Topeka, Kansas – USA
66603
1 – 785 – 249 – 0096 – cell.
http://www.locolizards.com/index.htm

Aliases on forums:

(Kingpin – www.kingsnake.com)
(LocoLizard - www.redtailboas.com)

June 07, 2004 - First off it started with an advertisement on www.kingsnake.com .

June 07, 2004 – After 1 phone call and the first email to find out if this boa is available I started a second email listing the particulars.

 

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

June 11, 2004 – Final draft of our deal done in email to state like a contract and record what was said verbally.

June 11, 2004 – Mark Miller replies and a transaction will happen with first deposit.

June 15, 2004 – Correction was done and accepted on date of payment due to Bank time schedules. Also shows a reply this boa is reserved for me now.

June 16, 2004 – Mark Miller states payment was received from first deposit and as agreed on our contract deal I will forward the rest once the boa has arrived.

July 20, 2004 – Since I trusted Mark Miller and thought this deal was going forward after I made my first deposit. Mark requests would I help him get some Canadian boas from a breeder I know in Canada. The whole process was I pay the breeder what is the cost on these boas and Mark will deduct my cost off the rest owed on the Sunglow. Good thing I never accepted this because he had half the money, the Sunglow and more boas that I would have paid for and been ripped off even more. Also was stated that paperwork was coming and I should be happy soon.

 

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

September 22, 2004 – The excuses on CITIES starts and it never ends with anything positive.

September 24, 2004 – Believing shipping and CITIES is very near I give him the information I have to arrange the shipping to me.

October 24, 2004 – Mark begins to change the deal, everything from hearing he should charge more – to he can sell her fast to someone else – hiking up the price because he feels he can after a deal was agreed on.

If a seller can change the price after they received a deposit on a sold item, and decide to increase the price……..will the whole world accept this new method of Mark Millers business ethics. This and many other clues began to open a new light on Mark Miller showing his practices are like a con artist.

October 25, 2004 – Good News, well it was short. I was told here by email and a phone call things are in motion. So of course I was happy but it was a short feeling. More pressure tactics to demands to pay early the rest as it was not part of the original deal.

 

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

October 26, 2004 – A trail of excuses that I should have suspected but I gave him more trust and from this point on I know to be more open to these lies he will continue on.

October 27, 2004 – Well it’s coming but it’s not, now it’s the airline, more excuses.

October 28, 2004 – Says he had the paperwork returned and was ready but decided to correct minor small details that did not matter at all for the paperwork. They were not critical changes that needed to be redone over at all. Again an excuse to keep me hanging.

PICTURES 14

October 31, 2004 – A blank copy of paperwork I never got to see, also now adding more value to the purchase of the boa. I expect certain fees but this was not included to the value. He wanted more money on the boa, and again attempted to pressure it out of me.

November 03, 2004 – Here I clarify the deal once again as agreed by us both, and more information on shipping to be sent back to me to confirm this will happen. Also I make a second deposit to cover 75 percent of the boa, even though this was not part of the original deal. Mark had to put pressure on me, saying was in debt needed to pay bills. I felt if I am getting this boa I can pay a bit more because in the end once it arrives I was going to pay the rest anyways.

 

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

November 17, 2004 – Thought my paperwork was ready now its not, go figure. Mark Miller likes to tease things are going great only to get more money then give you bad news after.

November 23, 2004 – More excuses, and I am losing my patience now. He is willing to sell other boas as well, yet have no real paperwork for one let alone two now.

November 23, 2004 – I decide to go through his website and find my boa, listed mine as well by him, this is a snap shot of that.

November 23, 2004 – This next shot is a full view of that Sunglow litter page he has, being it was rather large and long I put 2 rows showing all the animals and mine listed.

May 13, 2004 – Well here is the most recent of his three times to reverse the deal. His excuses have led me to believe this boa was never going to be mine, that he might sell her for a higher dollar, that he might keep her after he seen she is better than he expected as a baby at first….or whatever. Again a sign of his business ethics coming clear that he will not honor a business deal, a deal international, a deal that should be under CITIES paperwork, a deal that has been paid for 75% as agreed from the beginning……all international order beware of mark Miller he is a fraud.

Also in this email it states our phone conversations, where he feels telling me he is buying a Motley boa was a smart thing to tell me……so spending and buying is better than paying people you owe…..and more business ethics of Mark Miller. I am not the only person that knows this either.

 

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

May 16, 2004 – A pm message between us where I am told I should be getting my refund, this is the second promise stated by him in same week.

May 19, 2004 – Here I email him after a phone call where he feels he can yell at me on me demanding my own money back and when I want it. Proper business practices is never spend a customer’s money until the boa or item is shipped and received. But Mark Miller has other practices in which my money was spend months ago and I had to wait till he has money. So this means I can wait years and never receive my money I guess.

May 24, 2004 – I feel I have to continue my request on getting my money since each day I am told its coming. More lies from Mark Miller, who thinks he will get away with this.

May 24, 2004 – Decide to get this image from his website, all international customers beware of Mark Miller he has no clue on shipping internationally.

 

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

May 24, 2004 – This last image is what Mark Miller owes, each day the currency changes and all I ask is he pay me in full the Canadian amount, every cent….this does not cover me completely as I really want all the fees I had to give him that money, all my long distance phone bills, fees to make the wire transfers and wasting one year of my time on my search for my second Sunglow Boa. But knowing he has trouble paying me what is owed as stated I highly doubt I would get the extras in refund too. So Mark Miller if your reading this comply and pay me in full as stated in photo, remember each day the currency changes so don’ t rip me off a few dollars.

May 27, 2004 – An update, Mark Miller has promised all this week I would receive my money. Of course this has not happened yet. But as of Friday May 27, 2005 around 2:20 pm my time I was told in 45 minutes I will hear from his bank that a wire transfer was done. Funny part about this is he called and confirmed. I even requested to speak with the teller of the bank. She says he made the wire transfer, but I could not get a serial number of the transaction, a receipt number or anything. Even more frustrating is his bank does not complete the transaction past 3:00 pm his time in Kansas. After I requested some proof on this all she can do is freeze his account till Tuesday May 31, 2005. I requested it she agreed to it. I did this because he has gained 4 more days to not pay me and the excuse will be on the bank now. So I figure before he has access to that account and finds a way to spend money and create another excuse the wire transfer was not able to work I figure put some security on that account. Who knows if I can trust that teller, just because this whole deal has shown to me a waste of my money and time and efforts. Even in his call he told me the amount, but of course he did not count up currency, each day it’s different so from my original number he steals roughly $50.00 CAD from me, in making the refund this day. He will play dumb as long as it takes but I believe this is who he really is.

I also emailed Mark Miller the night before requesting to make this payment in full an on time. Of course he said he did not read my email but has time to be on the forums, because I know he was online. When things were going good Mark would answer his phone on the spot, now its answer machines and avoiding emails. But if I was buying another boa bet he would answer faster.

Well he bought 4 days until I can confirm a refund was made, and even that does not mean anything as I may still have to wait 24 hours to have verification from my own bank. Well played Mark Miller, but there is no way in hell I would just let this go and let you scam or steal money from another person.

To any past customers who feel I am wrong I have the proof (this is just a summary as I can not post 60 plus emails and other chats) and even though he was OK with you all, that does not mean he has a respectful business or ethical practices. Also giving away boas on contests on forums and being a big sponsor on them does not mean he is a respectful good guy, it shows more that he is a predator on deals that he can change anytime he feels like it.

Mark Miller, if you know anything on business you can not reverse deals after a customer starts payments on an agreed verbal and documented deal. That is just not ethical, it is robbery and if you don’t know it. You will when you face court and legal action with future customers. If my money does not arrive as stated in my email to you I will seek legal council and have a lawsuit against you very soon. Also the Kansas authorities have been notified and expect to hear from me once more this coming Tuesday May 31, 2005.

Final note:

I am sorry for taking up everyone’s time on this post, but I feel people, the community, customers and future ones as well as international ones should know Mark Miller is a crook, liar, cheat and a person you will have more problems with that anything positive with. Seek another breeder much more well know in your country or internationally that has more experience and much better feedback on. My mistake was believing a big sponsor meant must have a good reputation as well. I was wrong and everyone should watch out for him.

Also this Sunglow Boa has now become a “leper” in the hobby, reason being this was my purchase and was rightfully mine, anyone willing to buy this boa or its offspring should know that if you are ethical that you should not support Mark Miller from stealing from me.

Thank you for reading and now being aware.

Tony Pharosx

 

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

Just noticed I made a small typo on the year 2004 - 2005, the emails are correct but when I was explaining each I keep writing 2004 from page 1 last email to all of page 2. That does not change anything I just forgot to change to 2005 in May....sorry but the facts are still there.

Tony Pharosx

 

[The BoidSmith]

Tony,

Sorry to hear what happened. You have to be really commended by the way you presented your case in here. It’s not very often that someone has everything so well documented. You have also done the right thing by posting it in the BOI. This site is read by thousand of members which in turn tell the story to thousands of non-viewers. If he plans to be into snakes in the long run he’d better fix this situation. He has damaged his reputation already, and it will take a very long time for him to recover (if he can at all). As far as you know is the boa still in his possession? Are you going to pursue legal action?

Best of lucks.

 

[Greg Riso]

Unbelievable Situation

Tony, Sorry you've been and still are being subjected to all of this bull crap from Mark Miller. He's certainly lost credibility in my eyes. Although Mark and I have never done business I can guarantee you we won't be after having read this thread. When you recently brought up this scenario on the Kingsnake boa forum I recommended you bring the topic here so both sides of the story could be aired. After having read your cut and dry presentation here I don't feel there is anything Mark could say to justify what's transpired. Very sleazy tactics on his part that I'm glad you warned us about. Tell us Mark, was that motley boa or whatever else you've purchased with Tony's money worthy of crashing your business? If you plan on saving an ounce of credibility I strongly suggest you pay back Tony everything you owe him and then some for his troubles immediately. Otherwise prepare to crash and burn.

 

[KingPin]

My response

Ok Tony, you got everyones attention by saying there was a price hike of 3000K, I never raised the price other than to include shipping, paperwork and taxes, that total was a price raise of 500.
You claim you never recieved any photo showing you a copy of the paperwork, but yet, you never sent any email or made any attempt by phone to call and let me know you did not recieve the photo which by reading the emails shows, i sent it.
It also doesnt mention in your nice neat little story here that at the time I recieved the paperwork and found the errors, you asked if more animals could be added to the CITES, I at that time told you I only had one boa listed, You then informed me of other animals you were hoping to buy from Frank Martin, and Ron Micheloti (sorry if i mispelled your last name ron). At that time I was trying to have the paperwork reissued and you asked if we could add those other animals to the paperwork. Kind of convenient to not mention all that isnt it? This caused the extended delay in getting new paperwork.

Here is a photo of the paperwork, the same photo I sent Tony.

Here is a photo sent to me by Tony asking me to add more animals to the paperwork.

It is obvious that very early on in this deal i told Tony I didnt feel comfortable with sending the boa with out it being paid for, I did agree to the half now and half shipped at first, I made a major mistake doing that. I explained to Tony I was unfamiliar with Shipping out of the Country and that I would try to help him as best i could. He knew i was trying to buy a motley with the funds he was sending so crying about the deposit being spent is pointless, it even stated in the advertisement I was trying to come up with funds for a motley.

I have sent his refund and now he is trying to ruin my name. I have never lied or cheated anyone. He spoke to my bank and they confirmed that his refund will be on the way tuesday morning, yet he still refuses to believe even after she told him if it made him feel better, she could freeze those funds until after tuesday which I didnt have to let her do, but I let her do it anyway to make Tony feel better.

Then that same day as the Bank phone call, he starts his warpath cry and starts posting ficticious information on another forum that I sponsor, They dont sponsor me, I sponsor them. He claims i raised the price on him 3000 dollars which is not true. It clearly states in my emails, tony posted for us, that i only raised the price to cover shipping and CITES and taxes I have to pay locally.

 

[KingPin]

chatroom logs

Then after i refunded the amount he asked for, which was $321.55 US more than what I recieved (3500.00) on the boa, he get in another chat room and starts this nonsense of trying to ruin my name.
here are the chat logs
http://www.locolizards.com/Tonylogs.htm

Shows what kind of person Tony is to deal with.

As for the reason for the refund, I had another reputable breeder call me asking about Tony. This person told me Tony had ordered animals from them as well and they had paperwork for several months and Tony had not paid them after several requests to do so, even going so far as to say that he was going to cancel his order with me to pay them! After that information I decided to call the deal off and refunded his money as fast as I could. Yes it took two weeks to refund his money.

I have nothing to hide here, and I dont appreciate Tony trying to give me a bad name simply because he didnt want to pay the animal off before shipping.

 

[KingPin]

I forgot to sign my posts

Thanks,
Mark Miller
Locolizards

 

[Mickey_TLK]

Well as a customer of Marks, I will have to say I would love to hear his side on this one.

I have found Mark to be nothing more then honest and 100% legit in his dealings with me. As such I am willing to give him the benifit of the doubt.

Also not to make excuses for Mark, but Im betting/guessing this very well could have been his first attempt at export. If so we may have to give him the benifit of the doubt on timelines ect.

Also, if this were/is his first attempt at exporting, its easy to see where timelines, costs, ect could be mistaken. Also it seems Mark was unaware that on his export shipment of an expensive animal, he would be unable to get any sort of protection against death during the export process. This would likely spooke me as well, as it would be tough to cover 4 g plus expenses should something go wrong.

Also, I could have browesed a little to quickly, and if so Im sorry, but I didnt see where he tried to change the price of the boa. I DID see him say she could sell easily locally, ect.

Again in my experience Mark has been nothing but a great person to deal with who produces VERY NICE animals. I have no doubt that this deal went wrong, however I also have NO DOUBT that Mark will make good on the refund. I have NO DOUBT that Mark is NOT a THEIF. I think this deal spun out of controll and now Mark as damned no matter what happens.

Again theese are all just quick OPINONS based on my dealings with Mark, whom I DO respect.

 

[pch101]

The fact that YOU (Mark) agreed to a 50% down payment and then 50% payment being paid AFTER it was to be shipped was YOUR bad call and YOUR problem to suck up. The simple fact is that YOU made a deal and then YOU changed the price and YOU changed the way the payment was to be made after that fact proves YOU are not to be trusted.

 

[Mickey_TLK]

I dont see where Mark changed the price on the ANIMAL. He included additonal charges that were to be charged to him (shipping, paperwork, ect) but DID NOT raise the price of the actual ANIMAL. I personally dont see anything wrong with this. What was Mark supposed to eat this money? The customer could have easily said Im not willing to pay that amount, please refund my money. How many of you would eat hundreds of additonal dollars on shipping charges, PLUS SEND AN ANIMAL ACROSS A BORDER WITH ONLY HALF PAYMENT. Lets be realistic here.

Mark has addmitted he agreed to ship with half payment, and THEN CHANGED HIS MIND ON THIS POINT. I DONT BLAME HIM. That does NOT make him a thief. Does it make him the best of businessmen, maybe not at a quick glance.

HOWEVER take into consideration that maybe the buyers nice little neat story leaves out a few details. MANY of the larger boa breeders talk to each other. Its quite possible (and it this case from what Im told IS TRUE) that other people told Mark of their dealings with Tony , and theese conversations left Mark with unease in sending without full payment.

WOULD YOU SHIP TO A GUY THAT PEOPLE YOU TRUST TELL YOU HE HASNT BEEN 100% HONEST WITH THEM? Hey Tony how was your vacation you went on to avoid shipment on another boa?

See there are many sides to this story, yes the deal went bad. But Im 100% confident come tuesday when Tony has his refund in hand that Mark will be guilty of nothing more then decideng to NOT RISK a loss and refund Tony. HIS RIGHT.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Mark,

Thank you for coming and giving your side of the story. In all honesty I would also not feel comfortable sending out an animal with 50% of the payment still pending. As far as I’m concerned you can be the most honest person in the face in the world. But, when you say, and I quote:

He knew i was trying to buy a motley with the funds he was sending so crying about the deposit being spent is pointless, it even stated in the advertisement I was trying to come up with funds for a motley.

Crying about the deposit being spent is not pointless. Even if you stated in your ad you were going to invest in another animal you should still have enough money saved to pay any outstanding bills. You have to recognize you broke a cardinal rule of business. You put yourself in a financial position where you had no money to fulfill your obligations. Working with other people’s money is what financial institutions such as banks do. But if someone asks for their money they still have enough to make good in that claim. How would you like it to go to your bank to withdraw some of your funds only to be told to come back in a couple of weeks because your money was used in financing another venture?

Anyways, I hope you can both work this issue to your complete satisfaction.

Regards.

 

[Mickey_TLK]

I forgot to mention this point.

I had a similar deal with a guy from Canada a few months back. I agreed to a sale, and only AFTER getting the money, did I realize he was from Canada.

The money didnt come quite as expected, and delays in the process followed. I asked members here what I should do, and to A MAN I WAS TOLD TO JUST CANCELL THE DEAL.

So lets not hang a guy out to dry for something that in many cases many of you would reccomend to do.

It all reminds me of what my brother in law the cop tells me. He says your only a "defendant" if you dont call the cops first. Had Mark gotten on here during the last year, and explained what was happening, Im fairly confident many people would have been on here telling him to do just what hes done REFUND AND CUT HIS LOSSES.

 

[ldydrgn]

In the other forums Tony stated that Mark raised the price to $7k form $4k.... I don't see that anywhere in what is posted here, only the added $500 for the paperwork and shipping costs.

Tony, can you explain why you embellished the story this way? This to me does not seem honest as you claim yourself to be....

 

[The BoidSmith]

I'm in agreement but...

WOULD YOU SHIP TO A GUY THAT PEOPLE YOU TRUST TELL YOU HE HASNT BEEN 100% HONEST WITH THEM? Hey Tony how was your vacation you went on to avoid shipment on another boa?

You make an excellent point Mickey, and no, I would not ship a snake with only 50% down-payment, not even to a person with good credentials. Now, if the seller decides not to send the snake there is one thing that as a customer I would expect though, an immediate refund of my money. No excuses that you have to buy property, a car or a boa. If you decide to back-off (which in the given circumstances might be understandable), you should be able to send the money immediately. In my opinion that’s how business should be conducted.

Best regards.