Mark Miller (loco-lizards) - Bad Guy !

[Jim O]

I have to say this is one of those situations where there are three sides of the story, Mark's, Tony's, and the truth. And the truth is this was a bad transaction from the beginning. Mark made a bad judgement in agreeing to ship without payment in full, and attempted to correct his mistake. At that point the deal was really cancelled and Mark should have been prepared to refund in full immediately, which he was not. That was mistake in judgement number two in Mark's part. I can see why he wanted to change the terms, but the fact that he was unable to make the refund immediately was really inexcusable.

Tony, on the other hand should be happy that he will be receiving more than he sent Mark. The fact is that this deal was agreed to and made in US Dollars. Mark is only obligated to issue a refund of what he received in the agreed upon currency. He is refunding almost 10% more than that. So Tony, there is your interest. You actually are getting more than what you are entitled to. I understand it doesn't feel like more, but in fact it is under the terms of your "contract". Consider yourself lucky that Mark has gone out of his way to pay you more than what you paid him.

 

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

Sorry forgot to state thank you to anyone I missed up till now seeing the facts and seeing I am right because the facts are there for everyone to be a judge. Also thank you for the emails and messages of members and by-standers reading this and for your support.

All in all I hope my mistake dealing with Mark opens people' s eyes and give them enough information that if you do purchase and animal locally or through CITIES keep all your documentation, I mean everything as I did because I have over 90 images saved on Mark, but I had to keep it short and not waste file size showing emails that are 15 responses at a time from reply over reply. I hope this threads teaches people to be aware of your rights and thatr they should not be afraid to post on people that are just bad guys and be exposed as so to remove them from communities, so we all can beneifit with something positive for the future.

Tony Pharosx

 

[Greg Riso]

My Opinion Hasn't Changed

I don't believe hearsay concerning what "other reputable breeders" allegedly said counts for anything here. Get them to post here exactly what happened between themselves and Tony otherwise it never happened. I still think a deal's a deal and if 50% down was agreed upon and the balance due after receiving the animal then that's what was agreed upon and what should have been executed. A reasonable time frame for the animal to be delivered should be expected. Does anyone here think a one year time frame is the norm for one animal to be shipped internationally from the USA to Canada?
Mickey, you have the benefit of Mark delivering animals to you in person today here and now. Try sending him several thousand dollars, wait a year plus for your animals with one exuse after another and see how you feel. Now, after much aggrevation just be expected to forget the whole thing and accept less than your money back. Something tells me you're perspective on your buddy just might be a little different.

 

[Mickey_TLK]

James

Ive already stated that Mark very well should have eaten the shipping losses, to avoid the "upcharge" of the animal. But you have to atleat give him credit for refunding at the "uprcharge" of he conversion rate.

Mark is not a theif and a liar, ect, ect. Hes a guy who made a bad decision in this situation, when he agreed to the initial deal. Once things got complicated on many ends, he tried to get out of the deal. He offered a refund then, and it was not accepted. The new terms were agreed to and have now not been accepted. It seems to be that for months Mark has told Tony he would not ship without full payment.

I dont think Mark did everything right here, but I dont think I would have been comfortable in the situation as it has been explained to me. Mark doesnt seem to me to be the type that will try and raise a price just to make an extra buck. I dont think he fully understood the costs involved with exports, as this was his first (and what may likely be his last) attempt at doing so.

Again, was this a picture of how to do business, NO. Was this a situation where a guy maybe bit off more then he was willing to chew, yes. But it seems to me that Mark has tried to make this good. I dont see Mark in chat rooms calling Tony names, threatening lawsuits. I see Mark trying to avoid getting burnt.

 

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

Lim O: I understand your point....but I would have gone well above the contact and paid Mark in full........the story is still he has no CITIES to comfirm shipping, please read my facts over before defending that about him.

He wants full amount .....no problem, I want cITIES.........that is the problem, he stalled for 1 year and we have no gp ahead on shipping due to CITIES, but that was his mistake and it is his responsiblity to get that paperwork done right, sent right, recieved right.........my proof shows he has no clue on the process and waits weeks to phone them after he knows we are both getting inpatiant. I would at least call once a week but he was like avoiding it.....guess pleasing me and finalizing a deal is more expensive than than a call to CITIES and demanding a progress report.

Just read my facts over again, I was willing to go more than above the call of duty, I even made a second deposit that was not part of the deal. I was helping Mark, and was expecting some respect in return..........I was wrong, his greed are him up and I will expose him for it.

Tony Pharosx

 

[Chris@TSE]

BTW, I just read that whole "reference gathering" line of yours...........

This should be done before a deal is agreed upon. Again, Marks mistake.

Next?

 

[Mickey_TLK]

YES I TO WOULD BE AGGRAVATED

NO THIS DEAL WAS NOT GOOD

Im not blind, I understand Tonys side. As I said I dont say he has no right to come here and post. I also said I cant blame others for siding with him.

Im just giving my experience with Mark. Ive also stated my "hearsay". Tony doesnt want to address it, fine. Hopefully now when Mark returns to a computer he will address it. However Im not sure he wants to go that direcetion, I just pointed out something for people to think about.

Yes I do have the convinence of Mark delivering animals in person, this time. Last time I went to him. Im just trying to point out hes a private breeder, that has the animal, and is not a thief as Tony has alledged. He also did NOT try and jack the price up THOUSANDS of dollars as Tony has alledged.

The facts as Tony sees them have been laid out. He has gotten his point across. People will see this forever, and can judge their willingness to do business with Mark or NOT. Im fairly confident he will never agree to a 50% / 50% again anyways.

Again I dont belittle Tony's right to be angry. However if he can bring second hand info in on a Motley deal, I dont see any wrong in the questioning of his credintials to deserve the credit of 50% of that sunglows value prior to shipping.

 

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

OK, though this has nothing to do with me and Mark I will just go ahead and tell the world my business. I think its wrong to make me do this but I have nothing to hide either. Like many of you that are excited and proud about new purchases I am as well. Few even tell the world what your getting and all but I was hoping to "release" that information when I wanted not when I am being bullied. But fine I will clear the air real easy, I will keep it short and I do not need to explain it any further.

I am waiting on a few boas to arrive from Rich Ihle (a good guy in my opinion - a great guy 100% no matter what anyone else thinks). I have 3 boas coming from him and 2 maybe 4 from Ron Mitchelotti and 2 from Frank Martin. Frank' s are paid for and waiting for go ahead on shipping, Ron' s are paid for at least 2 in full, the other 2 soon as well if I can set up CITIES otherwise I told Ron I may have to take a loss and let him keep the 80% on the those last 2 boas. Rich I statred a payment plan in which while I wait for CITIES I may find new boas from his lines to eventually just make a large order. Rich knows I will pay him in full no matter what, I do not screw people over on purchases. I can not get into more detail on that as Rich asked I not explain my details any further and it does not apply to this anyways it is still me and Mark. So I do have a balance owed and since Mark said I am getting my refund I will factor that to that owed balance to Rich without a problem. I just waited these past 2 weeks because of Mark. Since Mark has gone above the call of duty to tell people my business with these other breeders that shows a lack of respect so if you are friends to MArk and hope he is one that stays silent on issues that are nobody' s business then your dead wrong about Mark.

Again I will not go further into this, I should have not said anything at all, but I am not the accused here, my facts are facts and stay on the discussion.

I still wait for Mark to contest my full facts, and on the issue of difference in currency. I had no problem paying it because I was buying the boa, but no way in hell should I take a loss after this deal breaker thinks he can use my money, run as long as he did, and then accept an equal US refund because legally I should get penny for penny I spend exact.

Tony Pharosx

 

[The BoidSmith]

Currency adjustments?

Tony,

There is no doubt you should receive a full refund. As you say you lost time and money, those things happen. But it would be very difficult to quantify how much, if at all possible. What I don’t agree with though is with your attempt for currency adjustments. If I understood correctly the boa was sold in U.S. dollars. So the money that’s owed to you should be in the same currency. Had the price be agreed in Canadian dollars then I can see that happening. But trying to make some money out of the devaluation of the currency doesn’t seem to be fair to Mark.

Regards.

 

[Chris@TSE]

The facts speak for themselves. You can state your experiences, and I am sure most if not all are very pleasant. In this case howoever, Mark dropped the ball. He tried changing the deal long before any problems with the paperwork arised. The reference research you claim changed his mind should have been done before a deal was made and cash was accepted. We're not talking about you or your transactions. We're talking about the transaction between Mark and Tony. And in this case, the facts speak volumes. Its not a personal attack, simply a mistake to be learned from. I would try to keep an open mind and remember these before posting further.......

 

[Jim O]

I read the facts. Here they are: you had a deal, the deal is off, he is issuing a refund for more than you paid. Those are the facts. The rest is really he said-she said details that essentially are irrelevant.

Tony, if you had done your homework, maybe asked the right questions like "how many international transactions have you done?", "have you shipped to Canada before?" "how many CITES (and it's CITES not CITIES) permits have you obtained in the past?" maybe you would have found that Mark was not an experienced international dealer. This entire sequence of events was completely predictable. That doesn't excuse Mark, but it also does not change the fact that Mark is issuing a refund for more than he received. Come Tuesday that will hopefully be an undeniable fact. It's also an undeniable fact that it is totally inexcusable that it took this long for the refund to happen.

Tony, I am not attacking you or disputing your "facts". I merely pointed out in my post that in fact Mark is refunding more than you paid in the contracted currency. At least he is doing that much in an effort to make it right, which is in fact more than what he would have to do. Had you tried to sue him all you would have collected was what he owed you in US dollars. You are in fact getting more than that.

Now that you have come here and posted about this transaction, I do expect that Tuesday morning you will post again to let us all know that Mark has made the refund. Until then, you have made your point and it's time to sit down and be quiet. There is nothing else left for you to say.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Agreed as well....... Mark may have dropped the ball, but a refund in excess of what was originally paid should be more than sufficient. Nothing more is to be said really unless the refund does not arrive as promised.

 

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

James

It seems to be that for months Mark has told Tony he would not ship without full payment.

Please everything I am saying here, I can pay the full amount no problem, just because I want the boa (this is before he stated I was getting my money back May 16, 2005)........but your not getting the CLUE, the CITIES is not even ready and his greed over her value now shows he will not get a CITIES complete, the image he posted on CITIES is not the final copy saying Tony here it comes. I mean I can' t explain this any better, he has my money I can pay the rest off from the $4500.00 no problem, but I been waiting on promised CITIES papework for a year, where is that paperwork, when is that date saying ready to ship, it if don' t get the clue your blind to Mark' s friendship. And I can' t bother explaining this over and over, ready my facts he is wrong end of story.

Also lets say a guy walks into a store and shoots his wife (and there is history negative history between them and people know it), that make him a murderer?

If you think no, then I guess lying to me for a year and using my money, and no proof of CITIES is final nor shipping details, and excuse after excuse makes Mark Miller the most respectful person in the business and hobby.

If this is acceptable a brand new generation of breeders have just found a major loop hole in business to con, people and make thee money hostage till the buyer smartens up on them and exposes them once and for all.

People are stating across the board this does not mean mark is a liar or a theif, well you have not been put in my position and even more you may be a cureent / past customer or friend to defend him that way. I can understand that....but if anyone gets ripped off by Mark or anyone just suck it up and don' t expose them because maybe they just did that to you only........man if only someone can show me I am wrong for feeling cheated for 1 year plus, I could consider I am wrong. But the facts are the real deal and I need open minded people to reply not him friends.

Tony Pharosx

 

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

Nothing more is to be said really unless the refund does not arrive as promised.

If you believe this, than I was promised May 16, 2005, it is now May 29, 2005.....total me up my interest fees I should charge up then.

As I ststed and Mark cannot contest if i heard payment is coming as of May 27, 2005, but the teller will only process it May 31, 2005, then I still have to wait for verication......so add all those days in as well.

Tony Pharosx

 

[Jim O]

Tony, you are failing to realize a very simple fact. Mark got cold feet over the deal a long time ago. That is why he cancelled it and that is why there is no paperwork. That he has held your money is wrong. We all agree with that. Mickey agrees with that. But you aren't getting the boa. That train already left the station. So the CITES paperwork is not going to happen.

Now please let us know when and if the refund arrives.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Okay, Enough. Stop crying about it. What happened sucks and your refund is on the way. A refund in excess of your original investment. Take your money, and walk away. What is done is done. his will be here from this day forward and will represent your side well. Stop repeating yourself

 

[Chris@TSE]

*This

 

[Chris@TSE]

The deal is over.

Mark made his mistakes.

The refund is on its way.

A refund in excess of your original payment(s).

Mark does NOT want to sell you the Boa after knowing what he knows now.

End of story. Deal with it.

Do not like it? Tough. Sellers reserve the right to chose whom they wish to sell to and whom they wish to refuse.

Unless your refund dsoes not arrive as promised, you have nothing more to complain about.

 

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

Jim O: I understand your points, no problem there.

But I did ask questions and really anyone can tell you any answers. In the end I wait to hear from Mark on all I needed to know, after I was convinced I made the deposit. He is held and bound to that agreement no matter what. If he choose to lie to me and hope for the best then I am sticking to BAD GUY on him no matter what. The facts are there and that title fits.

Also being the biggest sponser on a forum listed in my facts, did come into play here as well. All his promises and lies, then seeing hey a big sponser on this other forum, must mean I can trust him. I could have asked around but what will that tell me really if youir a friend of mArk' s (yeah great guy to deal with ) if your not his friend (NO, run avoid him), if you don' t know him (Hmmmm not sure never heard of him), so where does the research start and its guildlines, that is the reason I made through emails as a form to prove my point both great deal or bad..........I am not a child or uneducated to understand researching and doing business, I was well aware of my process, and I can state it over and over Mark is a bad guy.

Again I am not attacking you either but I am getting hit from angles here and Mark has not contested my proof nor have I recieved my promised refund.

I am not against anyone here that asks and has their opinions but I do not see anyone asking this on Mark in public here, why is that?

Again I gotta say it as it is I feel like rape victim here yet the accused can' t prove there defense.

Tony Pharosx

 

[Jim O]

Ummm.....Tony.....read carefully. I think several people have commented that the delay in issuing the refund is inexcusable. I know that I did. And I believe that he made several errors in judgement. That's also in my post. But let's separate the wheat from the chaff here. It all boils down to a cancelled deal and a delayed refund. Nothing more and nothing less. And the seller is refunding more than he received. Does that make it right? No. But it is to his credit nevertheless.