Mark Miller (loco-lizards) - Bad Guy !

[DaveyFig]

Tony stated that the price hike was in a phone conversation, that cannot be proven, so I can't touch that. I can say though that when confronted about an increase of 3k in chat, Marks reply was "Where is your proof?" NOT "There was no increase". You make up your mind on that one, I will make up mine, and neither of can be proven wrong, so we can skip that.

Now, as for ignorance and spending hard earned money...Don't YOU be ignorant. Mark heard rumors and thought he was risking money...ok. You say 2k, but it was 1k, because Tony had already risked 3k on the deal with Mark.

Mark thought he was risking a whopping thousand dollars on someone who "might" try to burn him, but we haven't seen anything from anyone saying they warned Mark.
Tony DID risk 3 thousand dollars on someone who DID jerk him around.
Where is the bigger risk?
Mark took 3000, and held 2000 for a year, and the other 1000 for around 6 months.He got the snake he wanted out of the deal, and was ready to sell Tony's snake for a bigger profit, and pay Tony back.
Try going to a bank, borrow 3,000 to buy a snake. Then don't make a payment on the loan for a year. Then after a year, try to walk out of there by giving them 3,000 bucks and have them think you are a good guy.I bet they wont loan you money again.Your credit will be screwed, as Marks is becoming in this community based on this thread.

 

[pch101]

"Yea thats just AWSOME that kingsnake has allowed this lying POS to post without recourse on a forum that this kind of crap is not used for. Lets see in the kingsnake post I counted 3 places where this POS stated that Mark tried to up the price 3 grand."

I have not read the kingsnake thread, and I am not planning on it. I have not even read this thread past page 12, and I do not plan on it either. All I needed to see was in the beginning. I have skimmed through, and it seems to be a big pissing contest. I honestly can't believe that it has gone on this long. Then I checked out the last couple of posts, and I can't help but think that you (Micky) are just trying to egg Tony on as he seems to be easily baited into trying to explain things when he really should just remain silent. (Tony, take that as a hint. People agree with your plight for the most part, but while skimming through a few posts, I have noticed some of your supporters are becoming a bit irritated with the constant repetition.)

Maybe Tony lied on Kingsnake. I do not know, and at this point I do not care. I am trying to stick to the facts of the original post. However, If Tony did lie on kingsnake, then I think they can call the lying part of this deal even. And as soon as the money part is settled up, they can call the money part even too, and be done with it all together.

That being said, I would ask you this: do you actually think that calling names is going to make you or Mark look any better? You keep calling Tony a liar, isn't that what Mark did right from the start with this deal? Because it is quite clear to me that Mark lied. You can say he changed his mind if you want too. He had a deal, and he tried to change it after the fact. He said he would do a 50/50 deal, and he did not. That is a lie.

"AGAIN SHOW PROOF YOU LYING POS"

See what I mean? At this point, you should consider taking the high road and maybe try growing up a bit.

"Anyways Ive said my peace."

I wish that was the case, but unfortunately, as we have seen, it is not.

"No I would not be happy with this deal. But I will agree with what a few others have said after reading your posts. I WOULDNT DEAL WITH YOU IF YOU PAID ME TO."

That is the beauty of being a seller, you can choose who you will and will not deal with. Unfortunately for Mark, that is not a luxury that we have after we agree to a deal and take someone's money.

"I dont blame Mark for not wanting to risk sending to you without full
payment."

How many times do I have to say it. He agreed to do it in the deal. He should not have agreed to it if he did not want to, but he did, so he should have. How difficult is that to understand? Mark lied.

"Hey Tony THE LIAR"

I find that comment to be very ironic.

"Show me where Mark has said this as you have posted on kingsnake

"I even offered to get my own CITIES a few days back to see if that works, but I am told not the boa goes up another 3K if he has to wait.....now you see my dilemma."

Untill you show this crutial part of your argument, please stop with the lying on other sites, or atleast keep it here where people are allowed to call you on it."

Micky, why don't you take this up on kingsnake, and stick to the issue that was started here. You seem to be looking through rose colored glasses when it comes to your friend Mark.

 

[Jim O]

Sadly, neither party is coming out smelling like a rose. I would say both have taken a beating over this transaction and this thread.

 

[Chris@TSE]

I find it amusing that Mickey is trying oh so hard to support his pal by pressing an issue that occured LONG after his good old pal stuck it to Tony. Proven and in writing.

You ask for proof yet ignore the evidence that condemns your friend.

Mark screwed up. Live with it and get over it. Allow him to make it right and stop making the situation worse. And trust me...... Again I wish I did not have to side with that POS Tony.

 

[Mickey_TLK]

James

Its MICKEY

Anyways, beyond that, yes I am giving Mark the benifit of the doubt here.

I looked Mark right in the eyes,and asked him if it was about wanting more money. He says no, and I believe him.

Does Mark come out of this smelling like roses, HELL NO. Does this make him look good HELL NO. Is this likely to help him gain more international sales HELL HELL HELL NO.

Was Mark unflawed in his judgement on this HELL NO.

I just felt if we were going to high five the fact that Tony could lie and say Mark has tried to up the price 4 g, that it should be argued.

 

[pch101]

"I feel like those geeks on the CSI shows....
I follow the evidence"

Hey Chris, no knocking CSI. That is my favorite show!

 

[Mickey_TLK]

SORRY 3 G (not trying to inflate things here...LOL)

This is, will be my last post. I intended to let it rest yesterday after I had said my peace. However the ks thing bugged me a bit, so I said my peace.

 

[Jim O]

I agree that if the allegation that the price was raised by $3K was over the phone and not in writing it never happened. Arguing otherwise is stupid especially considering the source who has not endeared himself even to his supporters here, myself included.

 

[Jim O]

Oh, and Mark, if you are reading this, let's hope for your sake that the money does actually arrive in Tony's account tomorrow morning. If it does not, I'd say your totally business is totally sunk.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Mickey. Go back to page one. Take a deep breath, and read your own friends emails again. You and I both know his intentions...... I'm sorry but your friend has been less than honest with you.

As for raising a price, well I look at it this way. From what I remember this was supposedly done when the deal had already gone too far south and Tony for some stupid reason, STILL wanted to purchase the snake and apparently enter a "new deal" and Mark raised the price to what he felt was appropriate at that moment. But as someone stated earlier, it cannot be proven either way since this disucssion was handled over the phone. Frankly, its not important. What is important is the original deal in question. To be honest I did not give a shred of thought to the price raising accusation. It did not affect my judgment/opinion whatsoever in this matter, I only paid attention to the FACTS that can be proven in correspondence.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Oh, and Mark, if you are reading this, let's hope for your sake that the money does actually arrive in Tony's account tomorrow morning. If it does not, I'd say your totally business is totally sunk.

You can say that again.............

 

[Chris@TSE]

"I feel like those geeks on the CSI shows....
I follow the evidence"

Hey Chris, no knocking CSI. That is my favorite show!

One of my favs as well....

 

[DaveyFig]

To be honest I did not give a shred of thought to the price raising accusation. It did not affect my judgment/opinion whatsoever in this matter, I only paid attention to the FACTS that can be proven in correspondence

__________________
Yup yup. my thoughts exactly. We are all throwing the 3k price hike out as hearsay, so that can't be used against anyone anymore. If it can't be used against Mark to say he raised the price 3k, then it can't be used against Tony to call him a liar.

 

[David Reid]

Ok, I read along, on and off, so may not have ALL the facts straight

but waiting over a year for a snake is too long. If the money was sent as a deposit, and accepted as a deposit, and the seller strings this out over a year, meanwhile the snake ages, gets better coloring, and now is worth alot more money...the seller should still honor the agreement. If it was not a legally binding deposit, then it was a loan, and interest should be expected. If not interest, then 50% of whatever the snake sells for over the original agreement, or at least a baby or two out of the snake when bred by Mark. If I bought a female Boa or Ball, waited a year for it, I would expect the agreed upon price, not an increase because I had to wait for it.

Dave

 

[Mickey_TLK]

Chris

Here is what I can agree with you on.

1. This Deal SUCKS
2. If I were Tony, and if everything is the way he says (or even if its just how it reads) I WOULD HAVE BACKED OUT MONTHS AGO.

I cannot however agree that its easy to see Mark was just trying to gain more value for the SNAKE.

Yes he raised prices due to the cost of shipping (again this was Marks first attempt at an international shipment, obviously he screwed the pooch here). If Tony wasnt willing to accept this, he could and should have backed out then. I PERSONALLY WOULD HAVE EATEN THE EXTRA COST RATHER THEN RE NEGOTIATE, ANOTHER MISTAKE MARK HAS MADE HERE. I STILL WOULD NOT HAVE SHIPPED WITHOUT FULL PAYMENT.

My opinion is that Tony was aware that Mark was not going to ship him without full payment. I feel Tony agreed to full payment at SOME POINT, and was unable to get full payment out PRIOR to shipping.

From here the whole thing has fallen apart.

I agree FULLY that Tony, assuming his intentions were legit, has every reason to be pissed about a year of BULL S___ he was put through by Mark. As such he posted here for all to see, and determine their business with Mark in the future.

I THINK MARK WAS AN IDIOT FOR EVER AGREEING TO SEND WITHOUT FULL PAYMENT.

I dont think/believe Mark was trying to rob Tony. I dont think Mark was looking for a loan.

Just to clear a few things up MARK DOES NOT OWN A MOTLEY BOA. He did not use the money as a "loan" to purchase other snakes. Mark is also not hurting for money from what it appears to me. He was more then willing to trust me on consignment for the snakes he brought up yesterday.

I do believe Mark was very worried he would not recieve full payment on the snake. I believe this is why he was/is willing to risk his reputation over this.

Im also pretty sure it sucks to be Mark at this point.

One last thing MAN I SURE HOPE THAT MONEY ARRIVES ALSO (but Im willing to give till wed. as Banks are not always fast...LOL). If not then I would have to reconsider everything myself. Untill then, Im still willing to believe that Mark did not try and get into a bs situation like this, it just happened.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Ohhhhhhhhhhh kay..........

Lets do this the easy way. You can read right? Good.

Read the two emails above. Read them well. Grab a neighbor or family member if you require additional assistance.

You see what everyone else sees? Yes, thats right. Your good old pal attempting to manipulate the original deal.

Try to make any excuse you like. The only thing you are changing is QUANTITY.

You may ask yourself............ "What the hell does he mean by that?"

I'll tell you. The QUANTITY of individuals who will suffer the aftermath of this deal. So far, its obviously Mark. Tony is the "victim" and still painfully annoying so he'll suffer a tad. And now you, for blindly supporting someone who has made this all to easy.

I commend your quality as a friend. Mark certainly needs a few right now.... But he does not need people to overlook his actions.

 

[DaveyFig]

One last thing MAN I SURE HOPE THAT MONEY ARRIVES ALSO (but Im willing to give till wed. as Banks are not always fast...LOL). If not then I would have to reconsider everything myself. Untill then, Im still willing to believe that Mark did not try and get into a bs situation like this, it just happened

You might be willing to accept Wednesday, I am not. May 16th was the promised date, and Tomorrow was the time set by basically everyone here as the acceptable "Last chance"
If it doesnt go through because of the holiday, that is one more thing Mark underestimated on. He is making a habit of saying things that he can't accomplish, like underestimating costs and time on CITES and shipping, and promising money by any certain date.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Goes against everything posted thus far

I feel Tony agreed to full payment at SOME POINT, and was unable to get full payment out PRIOR to shipping.

Did I miss that somewhere?

That has not been stated by anyone has it?

 

[Chris@TSE]

And for those who need "Quoted Emails For Dummies" foot notes:

He specifically states that he feels as fo that email he should scrap the original deal, take full payment before delivery, or sell it locally.

Care to argue that one too?

Please man, stop. It's like watching someone bash thier head into a wall. At first it may be amusing, but after a while.....................


It just gets messy.

 

[Jim O]

I agree with most of what you just said in your last post Mickey. But as for the money issue, you are making an assumption based on the fact that he trusted you, a good customer from the sound of it, to pay him for the snakes that you purchased at some future point in time. This is not an uncommon arrangement that brokers or resellers make with their suppliers. I would not say that indicates that Mark is "not hurting for money".

Here's an equally valid assumption: Mark made more than one promise to pay and has not followed through as yet (pending the pending wire transfer). I also think it's pretty clear that Mark began to rethink this transaction last October. He accepted further monies after that date instead of issuing a refund in full. There are only two reasons I can think of for not having refunded all of Tony's money long ago. One is that he didn't have the money to refund him and the other is that he is a very sleazy guy. I don't know which it is, but I hope it's the former and not the latter.