Mark Miller (loco-lizards) - Bad Guy !

[LakesideBoas]

Sounds like horse puckey to me...

Stuff happens to all of us...doesn't it , Mickey? It is not fair to anyone involved to string them along for a YEAR all the while saying how much more you could have gotten if you hadn't agreed to a deal in the first place.

I think you, Mark, bit off more than you could chew at the outset. All well and good, you were new to the export game and did not know all involved, although if I had been on the receiving end of those e-mails you would have refunded me much sooner.

I feel that you did not try to string Tony along intentionally and that you got in over your head with the gigantic red-tape parade that we all must jump into when importing or exporting. I am sure all involved in this would have been happy with a refund if it had been procured in a timely fashion.

Mark needs to line up his "ducks" better and Tony needs a refund so you both can move on.

Maybe this will be a learning experience for those folks thinking about sending any product to another country, allow plenty of time, perhaps apply for CITES verification ahead of time, if at all possible, don't make mistakes! (Had to rib you Mark, I think you are just as frustrated as Tony!)

Sometimes bad stuff happens no matter how much we would like it not to...the measure of us as human beings is how we choose to deal with the "stuffage".

Hope the two of you can work this out amicably and that perhaps in the future if either of you has something the other wants you wouldn't hesitate to inquire on it.

 

[Mickey_TLK]

Maggie, Im not sure exactly what you mean by this, but I agree with everything else you said.

"Stuff happens to all of us...doesn't it , Mickey? It is not fair to anyone involved to string them along for a YEAR all the while saying how much more you could have gotten if you hadn't agreed to a deal in the first place."

To this I say, and have said NO. I agree that even discussing how much its worth, ect, is in bad taste in this situation.

 

[Chris@TSE]

"I might have mentioned the fact that the animal was worth more, but only to make a point that the animal could easily sell if he did not want to pay her off before shipping. Essentially in that email I was giving Tony the ultimatum of either paying the animal off before shipping or I would cancel the deal andrefund his money. At that time tony sent me the second payment of the money."

Yes, but that right there is manipulating tony into changing the original deal. He should not have had to send you the rest of the money. Perhaps some more to cover shipping, but you requested to change the deal from 50% upfront and 50% upon delivery too payment upfront and in full before delivery. This is what you would call bad business.

 

[LakesideBoas]

Maggie, Im not sure exactly what you mean by this, but I agree with everything else you said.

I had a deal lined up with you in the not so distant past and if I had strung you along for a year you probably would have hunted me down and stuffed me and hung my head over your fireplace- LOL!

I think this whole thing is a giant misunderstanding and that if the refund does go through as planned both will be out some time, but all in all they should be serene, not happy, but serene.

Exporting anything is not as simple as it may sound on the face of it and it's not always easy to follow through on things you would like to do no matter how much you would like to.

I bowed my head and told you that no matter how I tried to justify my purchase with you I could not do it at that time. If had had not been honest with you I probably would have a naughty post here about me. Well deserved, I might add! I hope that would not preclude us doing business in the future.

 

[Cruciform]

Wow, this thread spiraled out of control for quite a while.

As was pointed out in Ravensgaits post this deal was under contract. Negotiation was made and a deal agreed upon. Once money changes hands on a written deal, I'm under the impression that violating that agreement falls under breach of contract.

I'm not pointing an accusatory finger at anyone because even with all we've seen here I don't know either of them to pass judgement.

But I would suggest that anyone planning to make a deal with someone strongly consider the implications of taking money on written deals if you're not 100% on the transaction.

If Tony were to push this in court, the first couple of emails and a receipt by themselves would be likely to get a ruling in his favor.

Rather, I hope this settles amicably, or at least civilly.

Good luck to both.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Just my thoughts on the matter.

The only promise in those emails tony is that i was going to refund your money, i told you i was waiting on funds to be transfered into my account and that once i had those funds, I would send them to you, i was not trying to make excuses or delay your funds, i simply didn't have the funds until Friday at 3pm when they were wired into my account.

In short what you are saying is that you don’t have Tony’s money in order to pay him back. That means you spent it in whatever you found necessary or more urgent at the time. This is where the wrongdoing is Mark. You spent money that was not yours to begin with. When you buy a property you put down some earnest money. You know what that means right? It’s money paid in advance as part payment to bind a contract or bargain. Had Tony attempted to back-off from the deal he could have lost his deposit. You entered a contract with Tony so the funds should have been frozen (like in the earnest money example above) until the deal was completed. The mistake didn’t lie in a miscalculation of the time required, additional expenses or difficulty in getting the CITES papers. It was simply spending funds that were not yet yours to spend, as clear as that.

I made mistakes on this deal, i apologize to you for that Tony, that however does not give you the right to call me a thief, i have not stolen anything from you, and you are getting you refund on Tuesday as the bank teller told you.

Rather than mistakes I would say you committed a breach of contract. It’s more money than originally anticipated? Do you know what anyone selling anything to you would tell you? Have you tried to back-off lately from any other legal binding contract by merely apologizing?

I also want to make clear, i do not have a motley and have not spent any cash on one as of yet, i told tony that I was waiting on funds to transfer in my account, he made the comment that he had told people he was sending them money already and needed the money right then, I simply commented That i also had people waiting on money , that i too had promised people cash, I was in the process of buying a motley, i never said I had already bought one. I have had to put that on hold in order to pay Tony first, that was not the only deal i had to put on hold. Again I'm not making excuses, I'm just telling you what happened.

No motley, fine. Where’s Tony’s money then? What you don’t seem to grasp is that it’s not just a motley issue, is what you did with the money.

I have had many offers to buy the sunglow, i have turned them all down, If i was truly just interested in making more money on the snake i could have done so already many times.

So you know for a fact there is interest out there and the moment you want it sold it’s gone.

That is not my intentions, I am not backing out of this deal in order to get a free loan, or make more money on a snake now that it is worth more.

If you say those were not your intentions I believe you. But you know what? That’s exactly what you did. You put Tony’s money to work for you for one year. If you don’t have it was spent in something, right?

I am simply calling off a deal i should have never entered into in the first place due to some information I received from a valued fellow breeder and the way things were going with Tony at that time in our deal.

Here is where your apology falls through the cracks. What kind of information? Bear with me I have no information on Tony or any previous dealings he had. But, are you honestly apologizing to Tony and at the same time telling him he is not to be trusted and that’s why you back-off? Because that’s the way it sounds to me.

I again apologize for all this mess, I made a mistake agreeing to the deal, I made a mistake not having his refund ready when it was needed.

Yes, you probably made an error in agreeing to that deal, but the mistake is not bringing a binding contract to completion.

Regards.

 

[daniel1983]

That was alot to read. A deal is a deal anyway I see it. If someone wants to change the deal, both parties should have been consulted and a new deal agreed upon if that was the option. Thats just the way things SHOULD work. Mark, I would have just been very straight forward with the guy and told him that you were getting cold feet because of his reputation. This is just a case of a good deal gone bad.

Thank God it is TUESDAY. Lets all hope this is settled today.

 

[Mickey_TLK]

Well Tony, we see your around. Everyones dying to know.

Any refund yet

 

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

Mickey - because you asked what I can say is this. I called the bank at 9:00 am, 10:30 am and now noon my current time. Answer nothing is there yet. I asked did any wire transfers to anyone come in, they say yes and many were done on Friday from other people to other people. So this means Mark did not process anything on Friday....hence why I said before he bought himself 4 - 5 days more by not going to the bank earlier. If they process it today it will be another 24 hours befoe I can know for sure. Although I have done and recieved wires in an hour, but this is not the case with my refund yet.

Tony Pharosx

 

[Jim O]

I've seen Mark around this morning also. Oh Ma-a-ark...where's the money? The time for bullcrap is over...

 

[Mickey_TLK]

As I have ZERO experience with wire transfers, I would like to know.

Is there any way for you/us to find out when the wire was sent once you recieve it? Will this information be given on some sort of reciept?

 

[Jim O]

Mickey,

If Mark made the transfer on Friday afternoon as claimed, it should have arrived in Tony's account before the bank opened this morning.

Care to enlighten us Mark? We know you were here earlier. Come on back and explain it.

 

[Jim O]

And what I for one would really like to know, Mark, is who is that "teller" that spoke to Tony?

BTW, Tony, did you check your caller ID to see what number actually called you on Friday?

 

[ravensgait]

I don't know what back these two are using but, We have sent and received a number of wire transfers, even when sent over seas they don't take more than a hour or two and that time is just paperwork on each end. Most we've done took a mater of minutes, call the bank verify who you are give them the account info for the recipient and it's done rather quickly. Wire transfers are to get money somewhere really fast,if they took 24 hours you may as well just send a check express mail.

Mickey the bank will have that info and could get it for him. I don't think Tony's going to see his money today unless Mark sends it today.
Randy

 

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

Mickey - there are 2 ways to do wire transfers, my method and Mark' s....only difference if done right is mine you get on the spot maybe a few hours, maybe 24 hours max. But the longest in my history was 6 hours. If it is done by Mark it takes days to weeks and maybe years.

A wire transfer does carry a date and time stamp for legal purposes and tracking. And when done right you recieve a copy of it from the teller. When I do a wire, I state amount and all the details to where its going. The teller recieves that information and begins typing it into the computer to get a paper copy, that copy then goes to the bank manager who reads it and verifies the information is correct the goes to that same computer and types a code in I assume their ID #. After I am asked to read that copy and sign it. Once I have done that it is wired to the reciever (Mark Miller). I then get a second copy of that paperwork. Having that I can tell Mark or who ever it was sent and I have proof. I have done over 30 wires worldwide and recieved just as many without a hitch.

As stated before Mark, his bank, the teller could not verify me a number or code on that wire. Leads me to believe it was never processed. I think if anything it will be today, but his promise above all the other lies was Friday, that means today I should have that money. Mark can not provide the receipt because he never made it happen on Friday....end of story.

Jim O - I too seen Mark online, like the last 2 weeks on another forum, with promising me my refund all those 2 weeks.....has time to be online but the bank is just to far and pleasing me and ending this is just to hard as well

That teller could not give me 1 once of information that proves she was a teller, that is very disturbing. I told Mark as in my most recent emails what I needed to verify he was doing the wire, but of course like everything from Mark its excuses and delays.

Caller ID, no I do not have that feature, otherwise I would have traced it.

Ravensgait - Agree with you, if done Friday it would be here if done today it should be here now as well.

Tony Pharosx

 

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

UPDATE: Thought to give the bank a call again it is now 1:20 pm my current time...............answer, no money in yet. So it is now:

9:00 am - no money
10:30 am - no money
12:00 pm - no money
1:20 pm - no money

Starting to wonder if the "promised" freeze on Mark' s account is even valid. Guess Mark would be smart to hit the bank and make sure the full $4837.75 in CAD arrived today.....Mark that is $3854.55 USD right now as today currency. Make sure you remember that and not screw me on a few days ago price.

Tony Pharosx

 

[pch101]

I have received wire transfers from overseas (including Canada), and the money was in the account within minutes. Tony, I think you have been lied to yet again.

Mickey, you have a real winner for a friend. That was sarcasm. Maybe I should have just said weiner instead...

 

[Jim O]

Mark,

We're waiting for your answer with baited breath. What's taking you so long to compose?

Here's what you said:

I have sent his refund and now he is trying to ruin my name. I have never lied or cheated anyone. He spoke to my bank and they confirmed that his refund will be on the way tuesday morning, yet he still refuses to believe even after she told him if it made him feel better, she could freeze those funds until after tuesday which I didnt have to let her do, but I let her do it anyway to make Tony feel better.

It's Tuesday afternoon and...no money? Who's the liar Mark?

 

[Jim O]

I spoke too soon, Mark never completed his "response".

 

[Greg Riso]

Like I Said Before...

I won't be surprised if the money doesn't show up today. Mark, in addtion to a refund I think you owe Tony a reach around. Why don't you just admit you've blown the money on snakes, toys, coke, or whatever and can't pay up? Freaking unbelievable is all I can say. Where's the toilet flush on this one?
I think it's time for a courtesy flush because I smell bullsh*t.