Bad Guy Matt Shrimplin

[Allee Toler]

To start off, my birthday was recent, and my friend Ken decided to get me a gecko.

He went to his website (LeopardGeckosParadise.com), found what I wanted, and got it for me along with some others for himself.
The package got to his door, he opened it up, he had a prolapse and a gash in his foot that was pretty large.
There was no "discussing" this leo beforehand (except for the expected, whe they'll be there, the transaction etc), was told he was healthy, and the picture of him looked healthy.

Ken called Mr. Shrimplin and complained. He told him what to do (neosporin and soaking).

Ken then shipped him (Cleatus is his name now) to me for my birthday 5 days later.

I received on the 7th a Mack Snow Enigma from Ken (He received him from you) for a birthday present. Ken received him with a very deep wound on his back foot, and a prolapse. No big deal, quick fix. When I got him (he wasn't at Ken's long enough to be observed) he had green runny poo that smelt like low tide, and refused to eat. I was dropping slurry on his nose, a few a day all he'd eat, and in the middle of the night he'd puke it all up. His poo would be EVERYWHERE. I had to remove things from his bin to take a picture.

After a week of staying up at night to clean up after him almost every hour on the hour, I called the vet.

Crypto test, Parasite test, xrays, etc.

He has MBD and bowed legs, and an infection in his foot wound, but the vet found nothing wrong with him after many tests that would cause his problems. He's been given antibiotics, and I'm extremely lucky to have a special needs leo that visits my vet every two weeks, so my vet cut me a break on my new addition having me pay only the $80 consultation fee.

Picture to show his MBD.
Back legs, he can't hold himself up properly.

Front leg where it's most obvious, when he walks he's barely off the ground. My roomie's nick named him Low Rider.

His front left arm was extremely swollen when I got him, but it's since gone down.

As for his appetite, He's a DEAD on hunter. But, he eats maybe 5-10 crickets a week for me so far. I've tried roaches, mealies, supers, butters, silks, and crickets. The only thing he seemed to eat was the supers and the crickets. Last time he ate supers, a week ago, he puked them all up. He was 54.4g when I got him, he's currently 50.1g.

After all that being said, I love my little boy Cleatus. With all the problems that I've had with him, he is the sweetest tempered boy I've ever had the pleasure to own.

I just wanted to let you know all this. It's important for you to know all that I've had to go through for this gecko. He was in extremely poor health when I got him.

I'm sorry for your troubles. This gecko was given to me by a friend who couldn't take care of his geckos any longer and definitely needed a little TLC. I appreciate you taking good care of him and if I can get you anything in the future I will definitely give you a hefty discount. Please, don't think that this gecko is representation of my geckos as a whole. Have a great week.
Best Wishes,
-Matt
Leopard Geckos Paradise

If you knew he was special you should of informed Ken. You also didn't meet with your terms on how he should arrive in complete health. "arrive alive and in a condition of good health that matches the photos within this website.". He arrived with a gash in his foot, which later became infected. I had to pour money out for this little guy, which I don't have. I don't work, I legally can't. I've had to postpone my flight to go back to FL to see my family because of the much needed vet visit.

This sale is a reflection of you. First impressions are what sticks, and I'll tell you, Ken isn't impressed either (still debating on what to say in the trader rating). This gecko may of come from a friend, but I'm sure you bred him. Means you had to of at least had him for 4 months. That's long enough to make a sick gecko a healthy one. As far as I'm concerned, this gecko is your gecko. You sold it to me, not your friend.

Next time you go to sell a gecko, make sure you give them details on their health, instead of trying to hide deal breakers, like an infected gash on their foot.

Enjoy your geckos.
Allee

I did inform Ken about this gecko's foot and hemipene issue. I was unaware of the calcium deficiency or MBD and according to my friend this gecko was a great breeder. I advised Ken to place Neosporin on the wound and/or soak the gecko in a solution of salt water. I only had the gecko a week or two before selling it. You should have contacted me before wasting money at the vet. I would have replaced the gecko and just had you pay the cost of shipping... which would have been way cheaper than a vet bill. This gecko left my facility a little banged up, but eating great and decent size. The pic you sent me looks like he has lost several grams. I can't control what happens to the animals once they leave my facility. I don't remember you ever asking me about this gecko's feeding regiment, housing, overall care, etc. Geckos are very resilent, if he doesn't make a full recovery than I will gladly replace him with an equivalent gecko minus the cost of shipping.
Best Wishes,
-Matt
Leopard Geckos Paradise

I appreciate your effort in trying to resolve this. I'm down a breeder now, he's in no shape to breed next season unless he eats his weight. His antibiotic treatment is almost finished, it's a 20 day treatment. You were contacted with his health the day he arrived, or so Ken has told me. You did not tell Ken of his foot until after he received him and complained.

Leos are hardy animals, and their husbandry is common knowledge. I do not feel it's necessary to ask what feeders he's eating, when I have everything here in house. They bounce back fast from shipping, and resume their normal behaviors within days.

You should not ship an animal that isn't 100% healthy, since you knew about the foot wound and stated he was banged up (which WE did not know about, or Ken wouldn't of gotten him for me). Nor should you sell an animal that you haven't had in your care long enough to see health problems.

I'm very disappointed in your service, and YOUR animal, not your friends, yours. You sold it to him as your animal. You have been very irresponsible in shipping this gecko in it's condition, and not informing him of his total health.

Have a great day. I know I will, cleaning up gecko puke that reaks of low tide.

I was not expecting a discount, I didn't think of that at all at the time. I just wanted him to apologize, and pay the $80 vet bill, like he should. I haven't even had this leo in my care not even a month, and I've had constant problems.

So my issues here are that he lied to me, was rude, and irresponsible. Blaming his friend for his mistake, his friend did not sell me the gecko, he did. If I knew where the gecko was coming from, I wouldn't of wanted it. I was thinking it came from him, but I was wrong. He left that information out of it.

He said he knew about the gash, and told Ken about it before he shipped, but there was no mention of it until after he received it.

Also, if you look at his site, there's little baby 12-20g mack snow enigmas, super snow enigmas, and other combos. Cleatus looks like he's been bred to death, then sold off after the works been done. So I highly doubt he only had Cleatus for "1 to 2 weeks". What kind of breeder doesn't know how long he's had a gecko? "1 to 2 weeks" well which one is it Matt?

I know I will not take up his "heafty discount" of free shipping that's been placed.

I feel it's only right for the breeder to pay the shipping when a mix up happens. He wants me to pay the shipping to send Cleatus back, then pay the shipping to send the replacement. Plus the expenses I've put out for him (luckily I have a great vet who understands and doesn't charge me for small tests and such).

Anything I'm leaving out? Please let me know. I'll be as thorough as I need to be, but I think I covered 90% of it off the top of my head.


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The quotes came from my PM's on geckoforums.net

 

[JordanAng420]

When Ken received the gecko in the condition you describe, it should have gone back to the breeder immediately and you should have chosen a different gecko for your birthday. Ken also shouldn't have shipped a gecko that had prolapsed 5 days earlier.

Matt's website does not have ANY terms of service on it. No guarantees or anything.

I agree that it shouldn't have arrived in the condition it did, but I also think the person who FIRST received the sick gecko should have sent it back instead of shipping it to someone as a gift.

 

[Allee Toler]

We didn't know he was sick until after he got here, ate, then puked. If he was sick at Ken's he would of shipped him back. But he didn't have him long enough, nor did he eat there.

 

[JordanAng420]

We didn't know he was sick until after he got here, ate, then puked. If he was sick at Ken's he would of shipped him back. But he didn't have him long enough, nor did he eat there.

You don't consider an animal that arrives with a prolapse and a gash in his back foot "sick"? You stated:

Ken received him with a very deep wound on his back foot, and a prolapse.

 

[JordanAng420]

I'm not disagreeing with you...the animal is in terrible condition...but shouldn't have been shipped a second time to add to the stress the poor thing already went through.

Has Matt been made aware of this thread?

 

[LauraB]

First off, it's atrocious and shameful that Matt Shrimplin actually sold and shipped a gecko in that condition. That neglected and abused animal he was given should never have left his facility or been represented as a breeder.
He obviously doesn't give a crap about the animals he keeps or sells and is deserving of a Bad Guy Thread, IMO. Buyer beware, for sure!

That said, you stated:

Ken then shipped him (Cleatus is his name now) to me for my birthday 5 days later.
................................
We didn't know he was sick until after he got here, ate, then puked. If he was sick at Ken's he would of shipped him back. But he didn't have him long enough, nor did he eat there.

Did Ken not attempt to feed him? Did Ken not think it odd that the gecko did not eat for 5 days and that a "healthy" gecko would behave the same? I'm not placing blame on Ken, but a gecko with a prolapse and "deep gash" is obviously not healthy and should have been shipped back to Matt ASAP.

I'd be curious to see any emails between Matt and Ken prior to the sale or after receipt of the gecko if any exist.

Bottom line is, Matt is to be avoided. I do hope the little gecko fully recovers and fares well in your care Kudos to you, Allee, for being so attentive to his health.

 

[thestack510]

There was no mention of ANY problems with this gecko in the ad that I responded to or I would not have responded to that ad. Upon receiving the animal I checked for any obvious problems and noticed the big gash in his foot. His hemipenes were exposed, but by the time I went to get a photo of this the hemipenes had retracted so I took that to mean that he was just over excited from being packed with the two females that I had received with him.I contacted Mr. Shrimplin right away. The animal was a good weight and seemed to me that it had only been overworked a bit through breeding. It was a heafty, active animal at 56 grams. While it was here with me it's feces was solid and it ate some meallies. There were no signs of any health issues other than very slight head tilting that can be expected with many Enigmas. Again, there were no signs of any longstanding health issues. I will take the blame for shipping him, but I was informed after Allee's vet visit that the animal had a virus that must have been dormant at the time that it was in my care. The animal was kept quarentined and never threw up or got the runs while here. I would have never deliberately shipped or gifted an animal that I knew to have problems. True blame lies with the seller who later claimed that he had only had this animal for a matter of weeks, which isn't long enough to quarentine an animal and evaluate an animal's health before it is placed up for sale.

 

[yellermelon]

Not disagreeing just curious, the vet found nothing wrong? Only the infected foot and mbd?

 

[Allee Toler]

I can't edit my post. But apparently he did eat a few worms at Ken's. I thought he was talking about another gecko I got from him.


As for the vet, the vet did a thorough exam. He's a good vet, he's taken care of my hypochondroplasia dwarf leo for the last 2 years. The vet said they can get viruses, like humans do, he probably got it two or three months ago, laid dormant, and it's just taking a toll on his body now. He's been in no contact with any other leos since he arrived at Kens. My vet's coming back over in a few weeks to check him over again if he doesn't improve mucg, but he's starting to get a bit better.


Maia, me and Ken have been in constant communication. Cleatus wasn't lethargic when he got him, but by the time he got to me he was beyond sick. Ken did nothing wrong, he kept him isolated, as do I. The prolapse was fixed, and the cut on the foot wasn't examined by a vet at Ken's, and he put neosporin on it.

 

[Allee Toler]

As for Matt's terms, he does have a terms section. This is all it states.

"All of our Leopard Geckos are shipped through UPS Next Day Air. Most deliveries are guaranteed to arrive by 10:30 AM the following day. It is our pledge that all of our Leopard Geckos will arrive alive and in a condition of good health that matches the photos within this website."

 

[KelliH]

First of all, what virus did the vet diagnose and what test did he use to diagnose said virus?

Secondly, I think Ken should have shipped that gecko back to Matt right away. If I received a gecko with a prolapse and a gash in the foot that would be a huge red flag to me that prior care was not optimal and there might be other internal problems. That is a big deal! I would not want that gecko in my collection or any friend's collection.

Thirdly, I would like to know if you have or can take better photos of the gecko, it's wounded foot, the mbd and also do you have any of the original pics from Matt's website. The animal you posted looks quite thin to me.

I think I would like to hear Matt's response to this before I comment further.

 

[Allee Toler]

I'd love to hear his response too.

Ken has an original photo. He was plump, with a thin tail from breeding.

I'll go try to get good photos, I only have a camera phone. Give me a few to get them uploaded and such.

The vet said he doesn't know what virus, there was no "real" diagnosis since all the other tests came up negative. Virus was the only other thing he could think of that may be a possibility since reptiles can get them. Somethings wrong with Cleatus, we just don't know completely yet.

On a positive note, he hasn't puked since last night around 7pm. !

Off to get some photos.

 

[Allee Toler]

The foot's been on antibiotic cream for 3 weeks, but it's still scar-ish.

It shows how big it was.
Then a few others, the front arms have the MBD the worse, the back legs just used to shake really bad. Shaking went away about a week ago. These pictures are the highest he can lift himself up, with my assistance. I had to lift his midsection, or you wouldn't be able to see it enough.

Full body, showing his weight. He's 50.1g exactly, or so he was three days ago. I can take a picture with the scale if you wish. He doesn't look as skinny as he is, he plopped his belly down on my hand. He's got a decent midsection size, but it fluctuates too much for my comfort. And his tail is a little thicker than it was when I first got him.

Here's a picture I took the day after I got him.

Anything else needed?

 

[Allee Toler]

I got a better view of him. I was going to take him out for a better "skinny" shot, but this represents him very well. I just took his hide off of him.

 

[KelliH]

Thanks for the new pics. He doesn't look quite as bad when he is pictured on your hand. That tail is still way too thin and that animal (in my opinion) has the look of being "overbred".

That poor gecko :-( ... he never should have been sold in that condition (I'm mainly referring to the foot wound and his not being fattened up after breeding and OH YEAH the metabolic bone disease ), much less shipped. I'm sorry you are going through all of this with him.

Matt Shrimplin, you have some explaining to do prontisimo.

 

[KelliH]

Ok never mind I just saw the last pic you posted... that gecko looks terrible. In the end he will probably be fine but certainly should not be bred anytime soon or maybe even never.

 

[Allee Toler]

To liven up my own anger, he's drinking plenty of water, and doesn't fight me putting medication on his foot, or giving him his antibiotic shot. He's also the sweetest little boy. When he see's you walk over he scoots (he sort of drags his chest when he walks) over to the end of the tub and stares with his big gorgeous happy smile. If you put him on the couch on one end, he'll scoot closer to you. He's a total love bug, and I wouldn't dream of sending him back to Matt, not after I've seen how he shipped him in this condition.

He's also clearly bred him. Claiming he had him maybe "1 to 2 weeks" is a bold faced lie. If you look at his site, there's quite a few 12-20g babies that look like him and why would his "friend" give him a "Great breeder" and have him sell him? Doesn't add up at all.

Thanks for your support Kelli, and everyone else. I'll be updating his health on GF as he (hopefully) improves.

 

[KelliH]

Oh, and I'd love to know who this "friend" of Matt's is that gave him that gecko. And then for Matt to turn around and sell an animal that was given to him in that condition? GRRRR I'm really pissed off can ya tell

 

[Allee Toler]

I'm waiting for him to come on here and give an explanation. He's got me so frustrated.

 

[Allee Toler]

His cute big nose smile.