Bad Guy MEL KRUGER - CROOK

[juliasara]

This is a complex problem. Kruger is owed for the rats and so on that were fed during some of this time. You will see in article2 section2 of Sales in the UCC that indeed stuff can be sold under certain circumstances.

There are two sides to every story and in my opinion Alex from his point of view, is owed, and could choose to sue within the statute of limitations. He will have problems trying to do that, however: the expense of the suit, the fact that he initially breached, the whole problem with the gun delivery, the costs of boarding during the part of time he was responsible for delay, trying to prove a higher value for his snakes when he proposed in writing a trade for the relatively inexpensive pellet gun.
It may be judged commercially reasonable for Kruger to have sold the critters rather than racking up further boarding costs.

It is easy to feel the injustice here, with Kruger in possession of the guns and the snakes. I am merely pointing out that commercial law is what it is, and a study will show that there are a variety of options when there is disagreement and/or breach, that is why article2 section2 was written.

Again, because I am mentioning commercial law and its relevance to this transaction, to not mistakenly attribute the mention as any kind of defense of Kruger.

I don't have a clue of the legal perspective so thank you for that great info. I meant from a moral perspective. I know in the eyes of the law/court morals dont mean much but I know in this hobby they mean a lot to most folks. If kruger were still communicating with Alex and trying to come to an agreement it would be one thing but he's completely stopped contact making selling the snakes even more wrong in most people's eyes. If they agreed he could go ahead and sell the snakes and agree what funds would go where that would be ok. But him keeping all of the money is just wrong and I'm sure will make anyone reading this avoid doing business with him.

 

[Lucille]

seriously dude this is getting ridiculous. A pellet gun for all your livestock? If this was me, I would print every page of this thread, make copies and head on down to the nearest precinct, file a stolen property report and give them a copy. Then send a copy to what ever precinct Kruger's home address falls under and follow up with phoning in a stolen property complaint. Then email a few lawyers that specialize in these cases, get their fax number and fax over a copy of this entire thread.

The PD will tell him that it's a civil issue, not a criminal issue.

I agree.

 

[JButera]

Sure it's a civil issue, however a lawyer may see this as a criminal act, insisting that the motive here was to take hold of the property without any intention to reimburse the other party.

 

[Lucille]

The original deal did involve guns, so yeah you may have a point about not wanting the law involved.

Sure it's a civil issue, however a lawyer may see this as a criminal act, insisting that the motive here was to take hold of the property without any intention to reimburse the other party.

Justin, I think you are just throwing stuff out here. Considering Alex breached, and considering the gun issue, do you really think the government is actually going to try to prosecute this transaction-gone-wrong as a crime?

 

[snakeman101172]

Sure it's a civil issue, however a lawyer may see this as a criminal act, insisting that the motive here was to take hold of the property without any intention to reimburse the other party.

How would you prove this intent? If Alex had sent everything and not shorted the order then yes. What about the intent of Alex in that shorting? If you refer back to post #5 of this thread I believe, Alex states he trades Boas and guns all the time, yet didn't know the gun laws? Any accusation of intent begins at the start, and that is Alex.

I don't agree with Kruger's treatment of this situation but as I have said previously there is more to this that is not being shared. Post 5 starts that theory in my mind.

And as far as posting the entire convo Alex states he has posted all of the IMPORTANT texts, not ALL the texts. There is a reason for this.

If Alex suggested a pellet gun and Kruger agreed(ridiculous to me) then the deal is done and they are Krugers snakes to sell, they are not stolen property. If Kruger doesn't send the pellet gun there is no doubt as to where he falls even in my mind.

But, back to intent, you can not legitimately question Krugers intent without starting with the intent of Alex which does not seem to be under question here as he is perceived as the victim.

These animals could have been traded or even sold below wholesale in his local area and simply went and bought the weapons of his choice with lots of money or boas to spare. There is a reason he did not do this.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

Scott, yes, there appears to have been a lot of circuitous behavior.

 

[Bronx Boa]

I've received no pellet gun and no further communication from this crook.

I have nothing to hide. I took the trade because it was there and available. I knew what I was doing and the trade was what I wanted. Regardless of the fact that I was loosing. I wanted to downsize, was relocating and could use some firearms to add to my collection. It made sense for me at the time.

The initial mishap on my part turned out to be a blessing. At least I didn't get burnt for another snake. Mel doesn't realize that this will continue to get worse the more he plays games.

Here is what he had to say when confronted with evidence that he was false advertising the snakes he had the reptile expo yesterday (my snakes).

To this day I have not received anything from Mel but slick remarks or blatant disappearing acts.

Mel, you sold one of my snakes for $500 at the show. Send it via PayPal to [email protected]

This will go away and so will your complaint to the Arizona Federal Trade Commission.

I will no longer entertainment the one or two of you who feel there is more for me to say. There has been an abundant of evidence showing his faults. He's owned none of them. There has been a myriad of solutions offered. Now there's just one.

P.S. Thank you for those of you who are supporting the hobby by taking time out to expose crooks like this.


The BronX BoA

 

[Lucille]

Earlier in the thread

I agree with the rest of your post. But the fact is, two adult capable parties made a deal. It may seem like a bad deal to us, but it was voluntary for them. Criticizing the deal is problematic, it is like saying one of the parties was not smart enough to make a decent deal for themselves.

Now

If Alex suggested a pellet gun and Kruger agreed(ridiculous to me) then the deal is done and they are Krugers snakes to sell, they are not stolen property. If Kruger doesn't send the pellet gun there is no doubt as to where he falls even in my mind.

I agree. If the pellet gun is sent, the deal is done. If it is not sent, we know where Kruger stands. Further differing requests serve to simply muddy the water. If Alex wanted more than a pellet gun, he should not have proposed that deal.

I don't think that Kruger handled this well. But Alex seems to be getting a free pass, which I do not believe he deserves. BOTH parties leave a lot to be desired.

 

[Lucille]

Mel, you sold one of my snakes for $500 at the show. Send it via PayPal to [email protected]...
There has been a myriad of solutions offered. Now there's just one.

Actually, you proposed, and he agreed, to the pellet gun. He just needs to send it. If you didn't want that deal you should not have proposed it.

 

[JButera]

Scott and Lucille, let me sidestep. Would you do what Kruger has done if put in the same scenario?

 

[Lucille]

Scott and Lucille, let me sidestep. Would you do what Kruger has done if put in the same scenario?

You have been throwing stuff out and creating side paths for you last few posts, I see it as an attempt to derail.
This is not about possible other scenarios with possible other parties, this thread is about what happened here.
Both parties handled this poorly.

 

[snakeman101172]

Alex,
could you explain to everyone how you trades for boas and guns all the time but are completely naive to your states gun laws ? Maybe you missed that part or chose to out right avoid it. For the record you got a pretty bad shake in all of this and I certainly don't need you to entertain me.

There is still a reason why the entire convo has not been presented by you. Just the stuff you deem IMPORTANT. You did not attempt this transaction locally because you knew you could not obtain those weapons legally in you state.

Kruger seems to have relished in teaching you a lesson for some reason. I don't know of many people that would do what he has done to you, but we still do not have all the info and you know it. The only thing that matters to you is you feel wronged, not what you have not only added to this but initially created. Many here will not go against the majority of thought.

To be clear you got burned good, but that is what happens when you attempt something shady. Life provides many examples of this, that as an adult you may draw upon. For example, I had a friend staying with me back when I was in my teen years and he bought a VCR from a friend of his that he knew was stolen but it was only 50 bucks. He buys it, brings it into my home,tells me the story. I tell him to get it out of my house. 2 days later the police come and take it from him. He actually thought he was deserving of his money back because he had nothing to show for his out lay of cash. Here is a quick second one for ya, you go buy some drugs from someone, turns out they are fake, vast majority of people would not point out they attempted something illegal, they learn their lesson and move on.
You shorted him the most valuable snake and then want to call in to question his intent. Kruger may be such an overtly paranoid individual that he thought you were trying to get over on him? We will never know the whole story because you won't post ALL just the IMPORTANT in your mind. ISorry for your perceived loss but you created this entire scenario yourself. Anyone attempting to obtain any form of weapon without knowing the law should not have access to them in my opinion.
I hope you get your pellet gun. I don't know what makes you think based on his behavior he would send you $500.00? You, can propose 10,000 ways to conclude this deal but Kruger is not obligated to do any of them to make you feel good. Maybe you kept the snake back as a little insurance to get him to send something and then you send the other snake? No one here knows that one way or the other.
For future deals for other readers to consider when such a large number of items are involved in a trade maybe do half at a time to limit your risk involvement along the way.

 

[snakeman101172]

I would never have done what either of these parties have done. it is all below board. And not how grown adults conduct business.

 

[Bronx Boa]

Actually, you proposed, and he agreed, to the pellet gun. He just needs to send it. If you didn't want that deal you should not have proposed it.

He hasn't sent ANYTHING.


The BronX BoA

 

[Thenotoriousdud]

I find folks like you amusing Snake man. You find that some perceived "shady" intentions by the victim make ripping him off ok. Again more smokescreen crap. The onus is not on Alex to prove that he is a church going Christian as you seem to think. Noone here is afraid of going against popular opinion we merely base our decision on the facts laid before us. Each side has had equal opportunity to present evidence so if there is a penalty to be had for "shadiness" it should be shared not just placed a
on Alex.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

 

[JButera]

You have been throwing stuff out and creating side paths for you last few posts, I see it as an attempt to derail.
This is not about possible other scenarios with possible other parties, this thread is about what happened here.
Both parties handled this poorly.

I agree about both parties handling this poorly but I'm really at a lost of words here. Sure I'm derailing, to avoid the minutia that would follow concerning the law and our own personal spin on it. I'm just struggling trying to grasp how anyone could justify Kruger's action or why anyone would feel the need defend this type of behavior, outside the guilt ridden of course. *Sigh* I'm ready for Lucille next accusation.

 

[snakeman101172]

I find folks like you amusing Snake man. You find that some perceived "shady" intentions by the victim make ripping him off ok. Again more smokescreen crap. The onus is not on Alex to prove that he is a church going Christian as you seem to think. Noone here is afraid of going against popular opinion we merely base our decision on the facts laid before us. Each side has had equal opportunity to present evidence so if there is a penalty to be had for "shadiness" it should be shared not just placed a
on Alex.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

Of course it is shared. I am glad I amuse you. Unfortunately the only one that needs to gain something is Alex not Kruger, he has everything remember? It would serve him zero interest to post anything, nothing to gain. get it? he has everything. However, Alex has nothing. remember? Who do you think would have more of a pushing force to want to supply all evidence, the man with everything or the one with nothing who feels wronged? Again, Alex trades for guns and boas all the time but does not know his laws. My perception of "shadiness" is based on statements from Alex. "I trade for boas and guns all the time". Remember? Nothing to perceive if he is doing what he does all the time. Since, the shorted snake was not sent out the only logical place to start unwinding this event is at the start and that is Alex not sending the snake ever and trying to obtain weapons that are illegal in his state. No one in my opinion believes he was ignorant to those gun laws. This trade only makes sense from a logical perspective if you are trying to obtain something you can't have where you are. Otherwise you would do it locally. Guns are not living things. This was a horrible deal EVEN if it went perfectly for Alex.

 

[Bronx Boa]

I've traded for AKs, ARs, and all sorts of rifles. My FFL dealer receives and hands gem over to me with the legal specs. The last time, modified the AK to reflect the 'new' NY restrictions. You can assume there something shady all you want. If there was would I be creating such a storm and making this so public?

Now as you said...he has everything and I have nothing. He may have gotten over on this one but my loss will be minuscule compared to the loss he has, especially considering that he claims it is "a family business"


The BronX BoA

 

[Lucille]

I agree about both parties handling this poorly

I'm glad we agree.


I see that the closer some get to demanding accountability from Alex, the breach, the guns, the agreement for the pellet gun, the more games are played to derail. It is intentional, shoving rocks in the path so it can't be travelled. Others in the past, on different threads, have done it, most see through it.

 

[Bronx Boa]

I'm glad we agree.





I see that the closer some get to demanding accountability from Alex, the breach, the guns, the agreement for the pellet gun, the more games are played to derail. It is intentional, shoving rocks in the path so it can't be travelled. Others in the past, on different threads, have done it, most see through it.

I'm here...where's Mel?

I posted and you all saw...what has Mel posted? Feel there's more to it...Mel post!

He won't because there isn't.

My goal is get Mel to settle his debts and fulfill his end of the trade. Not to contend with others.




The BronX BoA