Melvin Efres, selling as "Mel" on KS.com classifieds -- Bad Guy: Lied in Ad.

[East_Coast]

Kingsnake.com delivers...

KS.com even pointed me in the right direction to actually do something legally against Melvin Efrece...



From: "phclassifieds" <[email protected]> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Messege to Kingsnake.com classified abuse from [email protected]
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:30:56 -0600

Here is what the ad said:

Chondro Trio.
Miami, Fl
Posted by Mel (Contact Me!) on March 13, 2007 at 21:55:21
Registered PetHobbyist User since 2006-08-26



I have 3 GTP for sale...
The first pic is of a Adult male Biak. $400 Shipped.
The second pic is of Adult Female Aru. $350 Shipped.
The last pic is of a Young Female Biak. $275 Shipped.
All 3 for $900 shipped.
All are 100% healthy, and All are eating Rats.
All are captive born. The adults were to be a pair for breeding. They
were
bought in Daytona at the National Breeders Expo in 2002. They eat every
10
days.
The young female was bought at Daytona Expo in 2005. She also eats
every 12
days.
Paypal is accepted.



Please note that due to federal and state privacy laws we can neither
reply
to your complaint specifically or release information about users or
accounts. We can and will release this information to the proper
authorities
upon their request.

In order for your complaint to be considered a formal complaint against
an
individual or a business, we require that you file a complaint at the
Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) located at http://www.ic3.gov/.

Once you have completed filing a complaint there, they will e-mail you
an
username and password. Please forward this to us and we will begin an
internal investigation of your complaint.

Please be aware that we take internet fraud seriously and so does IC3.
Please help us control fraud and theft on our site and help protect
yourself
and others.

--
Melody/Classifieds Coordinator
[email protected]


---------- Original Message -----------
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 11:19:55 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Messege to Kingsnake.com classified abuse from
[email protected]

> I bought a green tree python from "Mel" (his user name on ks.com) on
> 3/15/07. The ks.com url/ id # for this ad was:
>
> http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?de=485466&cat=33
>
> There are three snakes in this ad and I bought the one labeled as a
> female aru green tree python for $350.00.
>
> I paid Mel (Melvin Efrece) on 3/15/07. He sent me a male green tree
> python and I received it on 3/21/07. I have verified this and can
> provide photographic proof.
>
> He refuses to refund payment and take the snake back.
>
> I posted this episode to the BOI and the thread's URL is here:
>
> http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97682
>
> There is photographic proof of his deception and email documentation
> of his mockery of screwing me over using ks.com/ paypal.
>
> Do you have a copy of the original ad? Can you retrieve the text
> from hard drive back up?
>
> Can I have a copy of this text?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Peter Jolles
> [email protected]
>
> P.S. My user id on ks.com is ECC
>
> -----------------------------------------
> I.P Address: 76.100.209.211
> Host Name:
> Referring URL: http://www.pethobbyist.com/abuse/index.php
> Message sent from http://www.pethobbyist.com/abuse/index.php
------- End of Original Message -------

 

[Lucille]

Not to continue harping on this, but I would also like to point out that an attorney is not qualified to determine liability. All they can do is argue the case for the client and let the court decide. Your pops can have an opinion, and as an attorney, it would be an educated opinion, but still just an opinion. You are wasting your time, and ours, digging through law books. Most, if not all, of what you will find is open to interpretation by the court, based on the attorney's arguments.

The seller listed it as a female. Regardless if he used the words "guaranteed", it is my opinion (key word) that a small claims court judge would rule in Peter's favor. Primarily because the market value of a female is generally greater than that of a male, all other factors being equal of course.

Bart

People pat attorneys several hundred dollars an hour for their educated opinions as to liability.
In fact, courts do not generally get to do as they wish, precedent and law play a large part in judicial decisions.
I do not know where you are going with this post, it is certainly no waste of time to educate ones self on business law to some extent if one is in business.

 

[tail shaker]

QUOTE=Cat_72]I believe he was trying to say though he normally wouldn't side with you for whatever reason, that you are in the right and should get a refund. That is how I read it.

I could be wrong, however, it has happened once or twice before. [/QUOTE]

Cat, the only reason you can get away with saying that you "I could be wrong, it has happened once or twice" is because you seldom have an original thought. You sit back on these threads and basically say " Yeah, what he said"

But you know what? What are we arguing for? John from Suncoast has bounced this off his Dad. We're all set. Daddy will decide.

Dude, You bought the snake over the net. He didn't missrepresent anything, from what I have gathered here you received the snake in the photo, which you later state is clearly not an "Aru". If it was so clear that it was not an "Aru" then perhaps you should have requested some better pics. I can't see spending $350 for a snake when all that I have seen of it is a "postage stamp" sized pic. Thats kinda stupid. Live and Learn.

Oh, and I know Im not real popular hear, bla bla bla... Whatever. Just wanted to save some of you folks from wasting all your energy and time on trying to insult me. Yes, Im a thief, crook, bla bla bla.....

Good Day

PS-If somehow, I offended a moderator in what I have said then just put the points on my tab. I have a hard time remembering who is special and who isn't anymore.

 

[Lucille]

QUOTE=Cat_72]I believe he was trying to say though he normally wouldn't side with you for whatever reason, that you are in the right and should get a refund. That is how I read it.

I could be wrong, however, it has happened once or twice before.

Cat, the only reason you can get away with saying that you "I could be wrong, it has happened once or twice" is because you seldom have an original thought. You sit back on these threads and basically say " Yeah, what he said"

But you know what? What are we arguing for? John from Suncoast has bounced this off his Dad. We're all set. Daddy will decide.

Dude, You bought the snake over the net. He didn't missrepresent anything, from what I have gathered here you received the snake in the photo, which you later state is clearly not an "Aru". If it was so clear that it was not an "Aru" then perhaps you should have requested some better pics. I can't see spending $350 for a snake when all that I have seen of it is a "postage stamp" sized pic. Thats kinda stupid. Live and Learn.

Oh, and I know Im not real popular hear, bla bla bla... Whatever. Just wanted to save some of you folks from wasting all your energy and time on trying to insult me. Yes, Im a thief, crook, bla bla bla.....

Good Day

PS-If somehow, I offended a moderator in what I have said then just put the points on my tab. I have a hard time remembering who is special and who isn't anymore.[/QUOTE]

In my opnion Cat is a fine member of this community, sensible and helpful.

And, a federal judge's opinion is also in my opinion worthy of honor and respect: it takes many years to become a member of the judiciary.

Why you would trash people like that is beyond me, it certainly did not add to this conversation in any substantive way.

 

[tomsey]

Dude, You bought the snake over the net. He didn't missrepresent anything, from what I have gathered here you received the snake in the photo, which you later state is clearly not an "Aru". If it was so clear that it was not an "Aru" then perhaps you should have requested some better pics. I can't see spending $350 for a snake when all that I have seen of it is a "postage stamp" sized pic. Thats kinda stupid. Live and Learn.

QUOTE]



Jesse,
You seem to have missed one important thing. Peter purchased a FEMALE and he received a MALE. That is clearly misrepresentation. If this happened to you would you just accept it and let it go?
Thanks for your "drive-by" posting.

Tomsey Bitago

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Oh, and I know Im not real popular hear, bla bla bla... Whatever. Just wanted to save some of you folks from wasting all your energy and time on trying to insult me. Yes, Im a thief, crook, bla bla bla.....

Good Day

Jesse the only way an idiot continues to prove he is an idiot is by posts such as the one you just made. It not only proves you an idiot, It gives a very pointed abd focused view of what you regard as acceptable business practices.

To quote a popular comic..."The next time you have a thought...let it go"

 

[Jim O]

It would be interesting to hear from "Mel". In his ad he claims to have bought the animal as a "Female Aru" at Orlando. Maybe he actually never sexed the animal and believed what he was told. Maybe he is a crook. He certainly is a loser for the way he has handled the after sale, at least according to what we've seen, but we may not have seen it all.

I'm not meaning to minimize all of this, but remember, this guy didn't send a sick or dying snake, he didn't not send a snake at all, and he actually probably sent the snake in the ad. That it was mis-sexed is bad and he should clearly take it back, but in the end Peter still has an animal for which he can probably recoup his investment. I understand his anger and frustration but Peter's only gripe is about the sex, not the locale as he could have requested more photos and documentation in advance of sending any money. In the end this was also a case of a deal that was too good to be true, to get a mature, locale specific, CBB female GTP for that price would be a steal and I suspect that's why Peter didn't insist on more details -- he didn't want to delay and risk losing this "great deal". I could be wrong but really, how many here would buy an underpriced $375 animal from an unknown seller based on a postage stamp sized photo? There are too many red flags there.

Peter, you should go ahead with your complaints but the Feds won't do anything as this is a small number and you actually got a GTP. They'll see this as a minor dispute not worthy of their pursuit. Kingsnake.com may or may not "do" anything with respect to "Mel" but really there is nothing more to be gained from anything else on this thread. Feed the animal and document its health, then sell it. As long as it feeds, it will certainly make a great "pet quality" animal (at the very least) for someone new to chondros. If you're out a few bucks at the end of the day, consider it a lesson learned.

I'd offer you $250 plus shipping right after it's first meal but I bet you'd get more on the open market (and I'm "blackballed"). There -- in writing you have someone willing to take it with you only losing $100 just for openers.

 

[East_Coast]

JimO,

Reel it in and cast again. Not biting on any of post 87.

Good try. I see you put a lot of thought into it. Sorry I'm not playing with you anymore.

Peter Jolles

 

[lanceheads]

whoa!! wait a second JimO,

Peter, I'll offer you $225.00/plus YOU pay the shipping!

Randal Berry

 

[Ken Harbart]

Cat, the only reason you can get away with saying that you "I could be wrong, it has happened once or twice" is because you seldom have an original thought. You sit back on these threads and basically say " Yeah, what he said"

But you know what? What are we arguing for? John from Suncoast has bounced this off his Dad. We're all set. Daddy will decide.

Dude, You bought the snake over the net. He didn't missrepresent anything, from what I have gathered here you received the snake in the photo, which you later state is clearly not an "Aru". If it was so clear that it was not an "Aru" then perhaps you should have requested some better pics. I can't see spending $350 for a snake when all that I have seen of it is a "postage stamp" sized pic. Thats kinda stupid. Live and Learn.

Oh, and I know Im not real popular hear, bla bla bla... Whatever. Just wanted to save some of you folks from wasting all your energy and time on trying to insult me. Yes, Im a thief, crook, bla bla bla.....

Good Day

PS-If somehow, I offended a moderator in what I have said then just put the points on my tab. I have a hard time remembering who is special and who isn't anymore.

Well, it was just going to be a warning for discourtesy to another member, but that little gem at the end added antagonism towards moderators. Some folks just don't have the intelligence to quit while they're ahead, I guess.

 

[Jim O]

whoa!! wait a second JimO,

Peter, I'll offer you $225.00/plus YOU pay the shipping!

Randal Berry

I think that you're blackballed also. LOL.

Seems I've shown that jolles merely wants to whine about this terrible deal when I just offered him a way out where he substantially cuts his loss. And that was an initial offer. I might have been willing to negotiate price, but he turned it down outright.

 

[lanceheads]

You know Jim, I have to agree with you!

Randal Berry

 

[East_Coast]

$225?

whoa!! wait a second JimO,

Peter, I'll offer you $225.00/plus YOU pay the shipping!

Randal Berry

Randal, Please - don't quit your day job. You'll starve.

I am not selling the snake. I had three offers today for $350 + shipping already for the snake.

As I have already stated: This is not really about the money - it's more about outing Melvin Efrece as a dishonest seller.


- Peter Jolles

 

[East_Coast]

Jim_O ---

I think that you're blackballed also. LOL.

Seems I've shown that jolles merely wants to whine about this terrible deal when I just offered him a way out where he substantially cuts his loss. And that was an initial offer. I might have been willing to negotiate price, but he turned it down outright.

Cast again. You may need a new rod and reel. The fish are figuring out your trolling pattern.

- Peter Jolles

 

[Jim O]

There you go. A real strong case you have. You've turned down multiple offers that would have made you completely whole. Kinda proves my point about your just wanting to whine. So very typical...

And now that you have been outed, your frustration is showing and you're making it about others, trying to show your "intellect" which of course is marginal at best.

 

[East_Coast]

Jim_O...

There you go. A real strong case you have. You've turned down multiple offers that would have made you completely whole. Kinda proves my point about your just wanting to whine. So very typical...

And now that you have been outed, your frustration is showing and you're making it about others, trying to show your "intellect" which of course is marginal at best.

Man you really try hard. I guess if I posted 4.93 posts per day since January 11 2005 like you...

Well whatever gets you through the day.

Peter Jolles

 

[magicmike325]

Well this will be my last post, as I got bashed for no reason...
But from reading other threads that happens regularly here in the BOI.
Anyway, what I wanted to do is post with info of documented cases (so no one claims I am inventing them) in which the problems was similiar and it did not go as the popular opinion is in here. Peter does not have an airtight case as most people think.
This is a good way of educating new or inexperience internets reptile buyers. Pointing out some the red flags Peter missed, is not a bashing on him, but it could help others not make the same mistakes.
Really Peter, if you got those many offers for the same for amount of money you bought the snake for plus shipping....sell it already. Live and learn.....

 

[East_Coast]

Mike -

Well this will be my last post, as I got bashed for no reason...
But from reading other threads that happens regularly here in the BOI.
Anyway, what I wanted to do is post with info of documented cases (so no one claims I am inventing them) in which the problems was similiar and it did not go as the popular opinion is in here. Peter does not have an airtight case as most people think.
This is a good way of educating new or inexperience internets reptile buyers. Pointing out some the red flags Peter missed, is not a bashing on him, but it could help others not make the same mistakes.
Really Peter, if you got those many offers for the same for amount of money you bought the snake for plus shipping....sell it already. Live and learn.....

Airtight case? We are not in court and I think I stated in Post #1 that my goal of airing this in the BOI was to keep him from getting someone else. I also feel that if someone deceives like this - that person should be "outed" as such.

From Post #1:

We went back and forth a few times and Paypal closed the dispute in his favor within 12 hours of me opening it. Thanks Paypal.

Please beware of this guy. I heard his voice and he sounds young - so he will probably be back at some point and selling snakes. He took me for $350 and then shoved it in my face.

That's ok - I'm a big boy. I would like him to be "outed" for the dishonest person that he is though...

- Peter Jolles


Don't give me this "at least you got a nice snake." That is not the point. If you think it is the point then you miss the point.

- Peter Jolles

 

[SoulSmilen]

Interesting thread...

Rip me all you want, folks, but I think if the buyer in this situation had been one of the 'regs' on the forum, the reactions would have been QUITE different.

I also strongly believe the reaction would have been quite different if the seller had been me or another person on the forum who is here but not so much a regular, and is also not a breeder (like the seller in this situation).

Just my .02...

 

[thomas davis]

Airtight case? We are not in court and I think I stated in Post #1 that my goal of airing this in the BOI was to keep him from getting someone else. I also feel that if someone deceives like this - that person should be "outed" as such.

From Post #1:

We went back and forth a few times and Paypal closed the dispute in his favor within 12 hours of me opening it. Thanks Paypal.

Please beware of this guy. I heard his voice and he sounds young - so he will probably be back at some point and selling snakes. He took me for $350 and then shoved it in my face.

That's ok - I'm a big boy. I would like him to be "outed" for the dishonest person that he is though...

- Peter Jolles


Don't give me this "at least you got a nice snake." That is not the point. If you think it is the point then you miss the point.

- Peter Jolles

i for one totally miss the point! especially now now if you get your money back completely how did this person "take you and then shove it in your face" ahwell,,,,,,,,thomas davis