Melvin Efres, selling as "Mel" on KS.com classifieds -- Bad Guy: Lied in Ad.

[East_Coast]

Thomas ---

i for one totally miss the point! especially now now if you get your money back completely how did this person "take you and then shove it in your face" ahwell,,,,,,,,thomas davis

The easy way out is to cry loud enough and get your money. How does that help anyone else? Meaning, let's say I received the snake on Wednesday and called just a few friends to tell them. One of the friends buys the snake and I quit complaining.

That leaves the guy out there (Melvin Efrece) to do this again. More importantly - it let's Melvin Efrece get away with it even after I confronted him with his error.

I would not let that happen. The snake is a nice snake but if you buy a Joe Dimaggio baseball card because you like Joe Dimaggio (unsure of spelling his name) then you may not be happy with a Babe Ruth baseball card of equal value.

Get it now Thomas? I may be on a different mental level with this than you (and I don't mean that in a negative connotation). What I mean is that the money (the $350) was my means to a nice FEMALE snake. I did not want to use the $350 to buy $350 of "snake value" or as a dollar investment.

See my website and you will understand. I am in this for the snakes - not to squeeze money from snakes like line-bred dogs at a puppy mill. It may be hard for a "for profit" snake breeder to understand that. Again, not a slam at you or any other snake breeder for that statement. Without snake breeders (and the profit motive) there would be far fewer snakes for me to buy.

And, after all, I used to breed snakes for profit.

- Peter Jolles

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Interesting thread...

Rip me all you want, folks, but I think if the buyer in this situation had been one of the 'regs' on the forum, the reactions would have been QUITE different.

I also strongly believe the reaction would have been quite different if the seller had been me or another person on the forum who is here but not so much a regular, and is also not a breeder (like the seller in this situation).

Just my .02...

I would have to disagree in regards to the quote I responded to.

[email protected] wrote:
lol.....oh wow
Well I am out of the snake business, for real.....lol
But Peter be serious....if I wanted next week I will be john watson and go under chondrolover and
sell whatever I want or use any other name. You have done nothing...so whats the big deal?
I can ship and post under any name.... You think I am Melvin, I may not be. that may not be my last name. You really have not idea who I am, or who I could be next week. That's the nature of dealing in the internet....

I haven’t addressed the issue of the wrongly sexed snake. There is enough opinion on that matter.
I would argue that a Buyer Beware statement is warranted for any making the comments quoted.
My opinion would be the same no-matter the author of statements.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Interesting thread...

Rip me all you want, folks, but I think if the buyer in this situation had been one of the 'regs' on the forum, the reactions would have been QUITE different.

You are 100% correct Denise. However, Peter spent a couple of weeks not too long ago going out of his way to earn the vehement dislike of this entire forum. He will have an uphill battle garnering any sympathy here. I honestly believe that he does not expect or want sympathy. It is not in his well documented superior and arrogant nature. I believe he genuinely started this thread to alert people to this scumbag seller. I am sure that more than a few have been surprised by my attitude towards this situation since I was one of the members Peter engaged with more than most. If my attitude here seems to be defending PETER, let me categorically state that I am not. I dislike Peter intensely on most levels.

That said, he got screwed here plain and simple. I, for one, do not like to see anyone in this industry get away with falsely depicting an animal, selling it under those fraudulent conditions, and getting away with it Scott free. That is bad for me, bad for those reading and bad for the industry in general.

The fact of the matter is that we have a dishonest seller here who has fraudulently taken funds for a misrepresented product...period. Personal feelings for the buyer should not enter into anyones perception of that stated fact.

 

[East_Coast]

John,

Remember that I did not start the thread about me in February. I just didn't roll over and beg forgiveness when I was alerted to it.

My initial post in this thread is what the BOI is supposed to be about.

As little as you think of me - Post #1 of this thread is the whole purpose of this BOI. Your impartiality is in stark contrast to some other posters.

I posted this thread for myself (to vent anger at Mel Efrece), for Melvin Efrece (to show him that he would have to "pay", even if in an intangible manner, for doing this), and for anyone else that might avoid getting taken by him for something else.

- Peter Jolles

 

[Jim O]

I honestly believe that he does not expect or want sympathy...I believe he genuinely started this thread to alert people to this scumbag seller.

I disagree John. That may be his "stated" intent but if that were the case he would not have seen the need to make 30+ posts. Of course that's my opinion and we can disagree about that.

The point is that the seller, if he actually said what jolles claims he said in the email is extremly dishonorable. Dishonest would imply he knowingly sold a male as a female and we have no proof of that. He may actually have believed this was a female. It's not as if this guy has a half dozen other bad guy threads here and he evidently has been around for years. Again, I would point out that I wouldn't put him in the category of people like Scott Sanchez who ships empty boxes, or those who knowingly sell sick snakes, or those who sell cheap imports as 100% hets. In the grand scheme this is one healthy mis-sexed but otherwise as described snake that should have been taken back for a refund and wasn't but can now be sold for at least the buyer's cost.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Jim

I guess I find the real crux of this situation to be the sellers "it got there alive which is all I guaranteed so deal with it" attitude. We will have to agree to disagree on Peter's intent. I find thirty plus posts on the subject by him completely in keeping with the personality that was well exposed in the thread on him. I also find the idea that he is looking for sympathy completely out of keeping with that same personality.

He is pissed at being sold a misrepresented animal and making as much noise about it as possible. I doubt any one of us would react much differently

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

John,

Remember that I did not start the thread about me in February. I just didn't roll over and beg forgiveness when I was alerted to it.

My initial post in this thread is what the BOI is supposed to be about.

As little as you think of me - Post #1 of this thread is the whole purpose of this BOI. Your impartiality is in stark contrast to some other posters.

I posted this thread for myself (to vent anger at Mel Efrece), for Melvin Efrece (to show him that he would have to "pay", even if in an intangible manner, for doing this), and for anyone else that might avoid getting taken by him for something else.

- Peter Jolles

I have purposely deleted your first sentance in the above post since I find it misleading and possessed of extreme spin.

I do, however agree completely with what I have quoted above

 

[East_Coast]

John,

"He is pissed at being sold a misrepresented animal and making as much noise about it as possible. I doubt any one of us would react much differently"

HAMMER ON NAIL, driven into wood - said in two sentences what I wanted to communicate.

- Peter Jolles

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Well, I meant to delete it

 

[East_Coast]

- only thing to ad to John Shmitt's post #107 is that I am making noise so that as many people as possible will know about Melvin Efrece and I hope he sees that he can't just indiscriminately lie and cheat people.

- Peter Jolles

 

[East_Coast]

OK, John - don't roll this thread into something beyond Melvin Efrece --- BUT I have only started two threads in my 2 years on BOI.

This one and one other "good guy" post.

Hardly leads one to believe that I come here looking for trouble.

- Peter Jolles

 

[Lucille]

Interesting thread...

Rip me all you want, folks, but I think if the buyer in this situation had been one of the 'regs' on the forum, the reactions would have been QUITE different.

I also strongly believe the reaction would have been quite different if the seller had been me or another person on the forum who is here but not so much a regular, and is also not a breeder (like the seller in this situation).

Just my .02...

Denise, I'd like to hear more from you about this. I posted about five times on how selling a snake which was mis sexed would require a replacement, refund, or cash equalization.
I don't know how I would have said different no matter who the buyer or seller was.
I think (and this is just my opinion) that had you been the seller and made such an error, you might offer to do something to remedy the situation.

All law aside, we are all hobbyists and reptile keepers here and if one of us buys a reptile from another of us and expects to get one sex or the other, I just think it is a matter of integrity and courtesy to face up to your buyer if you've made a mistake and try to see what you can do to make amends.

 

[FunkyRes]

There you go. A real strong case you have. You've turned down multiple offers that would have made you completely whole. Kinda proves my point about your just wanting to whine. So very typical...

And now that you have been outed, your frustration is showing and you're making it about others, trying to show your "intellect" which of course is marginal at best.

If he sells the snake then he has no case against the scum that frauded him because he is not able to return the snake for a refund.

If I buy a VCR and get a box of bricks - but I sell those bricks, I no longer have the evidence.

Everything is crystal.

The seller made a mistake. I do not believe he intended to rip Peter off, as Peter got a snake and not a rock. I think he was just greener than the snake he sold and did not know how to sex it. As is often the case with bad deals, I think intentions were not dishonest, he just panicked and did not properly handle the aftermath of the mistake. Maybe he can't afford to, but if that's the case, he should have swallowed his pride and discussed that honestly with Peter.

He needs to refund Peter in full and pay for the return of the snake.
To do that, Peter has to have the snake to send back to him. If Peter sells the snake than Peter is not giving him the opportunity to make things right, and Peter no longer has a valid complaint.

 

[bsharrah]

If he sells the snake then he has no case against the scum that frauded him because he is not able to return the snake for a refund.

If I buy a VCR and get a box of bricks - but I sell those bricks, I no longer have the evidence.

Everything is crystal.

The seller made a mistake. I do not believe he intended to rip Peter off, as Peter got a snake and not a rock. I think he was just greener than the snake he sold and did not know how to sex it. As is often the case with bad deals, I think intentions were not dishonest, he just panicked and did not properly handle the aftermath of the mistake. Maybe he can't afford to, but if that's the case, he should have swallowed his pride and discussed that honestly with Peter.

He needs to refund Peter in full and pay for the return of the snake.
To do that, Peter has to have the snake to send back to him. If Peter sells the snake than Peter is not giving him the opportunity to make things right, and Peter no longer has a valid complaint.

If you buy a VCR for $350 and get a box of bricks, but someone else offers to buy those bricks for $350, then you don't need the refund or "evidence". I think this was Jim O's point. However, I also think the intent of this thread was not just getting a refund, but to warn others of this seller.

Bart

 

[East_Coast]

In regards to post #114 -

"If you buy a VCR for $350 and get a box of bricks, but someone else offers to buy those bricks for $350, then you don't need the refund or "evidence". I think this was Jim O's point. However, I also think the intent of this thread was not just getting a refund, but to warn others of this seller."

I understand where Jim_O is coming from and it is two places:

1. He wants to antagonize me. He has been on Fauna for many years and is very good at it. Hats off to him - but I choose to ignore him.

2. Jim_O is probably a businessman and can look at this from a "business perespective". That means that if you isolate emotions and ego from this situation - the smartest thing to do is recoup your loss (or as much of it as possible) and move on. That way you can focus your energies on something more profitable. It is just a way of living - and Jim_O has repeatedly mentioned how wealthy he is - so it works for him.

I, however, don't care about making any snake into a dollar value so it (the situation) is worth more to me as a way to stick it to Melvin Efrece for pulling one over on me.

- Peter Jolles

 

[chondrogal]

Peter was sold a snake that was identified and sexed wrong. Melvin Efrece/Reddawg has been completely outed for this transaction. Any future searches on the BOI will let potential buyers/sellers know that Melvin made bad mistake in this transaction and the way he handled it.

Peter has been offered full compensation from other potential buyers of this snake. He has clearly stated that it is a snake he does not want. At this point I would suggest to do what is best for the snake and to move forward with this in mind.
Sell the snake to a responsible keeper, recoup your monetary losses and move on.

 

[chondrogal]

Dang, wanted to put in Melvin's Fauna nick so it would show up on future searches and I messed up. It is Reddawg43

 

[tomsey]

Sell the snake to a responsible keeper, recoup your monetary losses and move on.

Cathy,
NO!!!!!!!!!!

If money was STOLEN from you and a friend or anyone else gave that amount of money back to you would you accept what happened to you and just "move on"?? I doubt it.
YOU WOULD WANT TO MAKE SURE THIS PERSON DID NOT GET AWAY WITH IT AND DO THE SAME THING TO SOMEONE ELSE.

Please, will you people please stop saying "just move on, recoup your costs, accept the loss" and all that other garbage?

Peter was shipped an item other than what he ordered. He wants his money back. Melvin will not give the money back. MELVIN MUST NOT GET AWAY with what I consider theft, which is a criminal act.
Do we prosecute for crimes.....or do we just let it go?
This makes me sick.

Tomsey Bitago

 

[tomsey]

Just in case you all didn't get it...............

Let's just say someone comes to your house and slashes all 4 tires on your car, throws a rock through your front window of your home, and rips up your shrubs.
Your friendly neighbor offers to give you the money to cover all your losses (forget about insurance).

Do you now let the offender get away with those crimes just because you have no monetary loss?

Now, if Peter sells the snake and recoups every penny, should he let Melvin get away with what he did? Of course not. Melvin did not provide the product that he was paid for and now he will not refund that money. IMHO, that is THEFT.

And for you lawyer wanna-be people........save it.........I already read your earlier posts.
Thank you.

Tomsey Bitago

 

[chondrogal]

I don't see that Melvin has gotten away with it. Peter's original intent was to inform anyone else contemplating a transaction with Melvin to know that he can not be trusted to provide what he advertises. Right?