• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Messed up Jaw

jmconnel

New member
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
43
Location
Charlotte, NC
our 4 month old hatchling has been eating well and everything perfect since he was born. The other day i looked at him and it looks as if his lower jaw is extended outward. Kinda like an underbite. He had some shed on his body but there wasnt anything that was keeping his mouth from opening. Has anyone else had this happen?
 
Can you post a picture?

it may be possible that it has something stuck in it's throat that it ate which is pushing on the jaw,... Otherwise it probably is a birth defect and then it's pretty much surgery and good luck finding a vet who's reasonably priced and actually knows what they are doing.

As long as she/he still eating I wouldn't worry too much. It may just be one of those quirks that will live with it through it's life.
 
i'll post one in the morning

I dont have a pic just yet. I will take one in the morning. I dont think its a birth defect because has not always been like that. He was a normal healthy leo. Its like he has an underbite all of a sudden like his jaw is out of alignment. I'll post the pic tomorrow so y'all can see what i am talking about.
 
Is he getting adequate calcium/D3 supplementation?
I have seen insufficient calcium levels result in mishapen jaws.

Also does he have cagemates or any cage furnishings that could be responsible for an injury?
 
took some pics

This should make it clearer what i am describing
 

Attachments

  • messed up jaw 3b.jpg
    messed up jaw 3b.jpg
    30.6 KB · Views: 195
sorry about the orientation of the other one

He did actually let me hold him
 

Attachments

  • messed up jaw 1b.jpg
    messed up jaw 1b.jpg
    37.1 KB · Views: 159
Clay..

i havent been supplementing him with any calcium cause i was afraid i would give him too much. He has been eating fine on roaches and he ate one today. He acts like he is having trouble opening his jaw. He tried to grab the roach but kept missing. I picked it up and put it right infront of his mouth and he ate it. As you can see in the pics that his lower jaw is slightly sticking out and i know he can open it cause he opened it when i held him and he was trying to bite me. the only cage furnishings i have is a coconut shell hide and a cardboard hide. He shouldnt have injured himself on them.
 
Jim, looks to me like it's either a birth defect, or a calcium deficiency.

while you can overdose on calcium, not giving them any at all doens't help either...

If you don't supplement by dusting, you should at least leave a little dish of calcium powder in the tank at all times so she can lick it when she feels the need for the powder. She's not going to get addicted to it and lick it when she doesn't feel she needs it. (therefore reducing the risks of overdosing)

I would probably take her to a vet to find out for sure whether it is a birth defect, a calcium deficieny, or something else. if it is a birth defect, i would recommend NOT breeding her ever as it could be a trait that could be passed on to the offspring.

good luck!
-Karin
 
whoops! sorry, didn't mean JIM, meant JOHN...(haha, saw JM and thought jim...sorry)
 
If it was a birth defect wouldnt its jaw had been messed up before and not have an acute onset?..........i have placed a dish of calcium in the tank with her. Here is a pic of her when she was a couple of months old.
 

Attachments

  • baby gecko 1b.jpg
    baby gecko 1b.jpg
    49.1 KB · Views: 115
how weird,...

although it does add character. He looks like a mafia lord like Al Capone with a big lip like that.

It probably isn't a birth defect if it just popped up. Unless it was born with a weak jaw and it popped out of place, or it's a growth defect and the jaw is growing in weird ways.

I have a couple of leos that can't catch crickets worth a darn and so I feed them mealworms and wax worms because those are slow and easier to catch. Just a thought if you get sick of hand feeding.

It has a nice thick tail though and looks all over healthy which is a good sign. It's good that you are paying such close attention to her/him.
 
it can be a birth defect and not show up for a few weeks or months. I'd take it to a vet to be sure. it's the only way you'll know what's best to fix the situation and not let it get worse.

and if those pics posted earlier were RECENT pics, i would say that it could definatly use more weight. she's not unhealthy looking or thin, but just could use more weight before i'd consider her "good" to go.

-Karin
 
yeah i know she could use some more weight but she will only eat a certain amount of roaches at a time. and she goes on and off eating binges. I am thinking that it is a calcium deficiencey problem because i havent been supplementing her with any. Mostly because i was just concerned of her eating consistantly and i didnt think that it would play such a big role in developing normal. Ive placed some calcium in the cage with her and im going to dust the roaches tomorrow when i try to feed her again. I just hope her jaw goes back to normal cause she is our first offspring.
 
why may i ask are you offering her roaches instead of crickets or mealworms??

i don't know the exact nutritional value of roaches, i've never fed these to any of my herps, but if she is not eating as many roaches as she needs to fatten her up or give her proper nutrients, why not switch to the more conventional crickets and mealworms?? she may be more willing to eat these items, rather than roaches.

My leopards now do not get anything but mealies, the occasional dusted crix as treats and so they can get some excercise by hunting them, but i've noticed that since switching over to mealworms as the majority of the diet, all of them have gained weight. (i gutload them for 24 hours, then put them in a clear glass ashtray in the tank).

Also, what are you using as gutload?? this is one of the MOST important parts of your geckos health, and some minor adjustments can make a big difference.
 
There's nothing unconventional about roaches, they are a superior feeder insect when compared to crickets.
I've used them as my only feeder for three years on species including acanthurus monitors, veild chameleons, bearded dragons, and tarantulas.
Lobster roaches are equal to a cricket from the perspective of the health of the lizard, but they are far better for the keeper. Easy to raise in large quantites, and a much longer lifespan than a cricket.

Nutritionally, both crickets and roaches are actually better than mealworms due to the chitin to digestable matter ratio. Gram for gram, mealworms have far more undigestable chitin than either of the other feeders. This does not apply to Madagascar Hissers however, they have a much more developed exoskeleton.
This is not to say feeding mealworms is wrong, geckos do fine on them as a staple in the diet, as you have seen yourself. It's just a point to be made when discussing the nutritional content.
The volume eaten coupled with the decrease in the need to regularly chase food contributes more to the weight gain than the mealworms themselves.
As an example, for a couple of years I fed my monitors free ranging roaches. They had good weight, but were still lean. A few months ago I switched to using a feeding container within the cage that contained the roaches. The volume of food eaten has not changed, but the monitors have all put on noticable weight. I have recently decreased their food intake somewhat so as not to risk obesity. The decrease in necessary activity levels has been the cause of this.
 
Thanks Clay

I was going to refer to your input on the roaches. I know and you know that they are so much better than crickets. Everyone should switch to roaches and do away with their insect expenses forever. Ive done meal worms before and the amount of mealworms that i have to feed to my adult female gecko would take forever to feed her cause she never got full. As far as the roaches go i agree with clay that they are by far a better feeder than crickets. I would have never heard about them if it wasnt for clay. Thanks for saving me A LOT of money and pain.
 
huh, i will definately have to give them a try!!!

I apologize for criticizing your feeding method, i had simply never heard of many people feeding their geckos, especially leopards, roaches. I had just assumed that there had to be a good reason crickets and mealworms were the primary choice for many breeders and keepers for their leopards. (any idea as to why this is? i mean, i don't come across many caresheets that say "roaches" in the list of food, usually only the usual crix, mealies, waxworms, maybe even superworms.)

What type of roach do you feed, how big are they, and what do you gutload them with??

I am very interested in giving it a shot, as I am always here to learn!!

Thank you Clay for pointing that out to me and probably to many learners as well.

John - I'd still give the crix and mealies a shot, some leos are just picky and stubborn. :D
 
Roaches are very quickly gaining in popularity as the primary feeder insect in many collections. This has only really happened over the last few years.
The main reason that crickets and mealworms etc are all that's mentioned in the literature is that's what people are used to. for decades that's what was available and what people used as feeders.
One of the biggest obstacles to people trying roaches is what I call the yuck factor. To people in this country, roaches are only a pest that infests your house, and definately not something they want to bring in intentionally.
The fact is there are around 5000 species of roach worldwide, and only about 50 or so of those are actually pest species, meaning they inhabit human dwellings. The remainder serve a vital function in nature as a huge clean up crew.
In fact none of the roaches I keep have the ability to infest my home. Escapes are inevitable, but they never survive. There are several factors that play a part in this, but one of the most important is temperature requirements.

Of the roaches commonly available today, I'd have to say the lobster roach is the best feeder, especially for smaller lizards. They have the highest reproductive rate, and are exceedingly easy to raise. They also remain small (1.25" at the biggest), and are softer bodied for easier digestion.
The only drawback with them is they can climb glass, so this has to be taken into account in your feeding methods.
There are a few species of non climbers available, but they have a significantly slower reproductive rate than the lobsters, and some are prone to wing biting and require more attention to their food intake.
Madagascar hissing roaches are currently the most popular roach, again because that's what people are used to, but they are only really suitable for larger lizards, especially monitors.
They have a serious exoskeleton once mature, and are hard to kill let alone digest. Plus, it takes a bigger lizard to get down a 3-4" roach.

The short answer on gutloading is I don't. That's a practice that's been really over hyped and is promoted by those with small collections generally.
It's a fine practice, but try it with 10,000 roaches sometime. Gutloading 1000 crickets isn't even practical.
Anyone with a good sized collection quickly realizes that gutloading in the classic sense is an excercise in futility.
Few people remember than when gutloading was first proposed a 12-15 years ago, it was primarily for the purpose eliminating, or greatly reducing the need for supplmentation. It has since suffered the same result as the UV light issue and has become accepted as the gospel by many people. The truth is it's great if you do it, but nothing is going to die if you don't prepare a salad or use some expensive commercial gutload for your bugs.
The staple diet I use for the roaches is chicken laying pellets and apples for moisture. The laying pellets are fortified with calcium and that's the best I can do considering the number of bugs I have. I also dust with Miner-All at regular intervals.
They also get random vegetable scraps at times rather than throwing them away. I suppose that diet is a form of gutloading on a very basic level, but I don't go to any trouble just to make sure I do it.
 
clay, i guess when i ask about gutload, i really mean what are you feeding them, which is exactly what you answered with. I also give them chicken feed, but it is Purina Layena..i believe it is for laying hens, so i don't know if there is a difference between that and what you're using. Although, i have lately been hearing that the Layena (and perhaps chicken feed in general) is too high in something...perhaps protein? I also throw in potatoes and carrots for moisture, and the scraps of greens from my bearded dragon and iguana salads. (good to know me not going all out on the gutload isn't too detrimental)


off to do some research on roaches...

thanks again!
-Karin

p.s. John any new developments on the jaw? (sorry to change the topic in your thread)
 
Back
Top