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Micah Chance (use caution)

pch101

pch101

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Last year, a friend of mine (Paul Huang) came to visit from New Mexico. He was going to pick up some rattlesnakes that some guy (Micah Chance) he was giving to him. Paul met Micah on a herp Forum and worked out a meeting with him. Paul told me that there was a blood python that I could get for another friend of mine, but that Micah said it might be sick. When we went to go and meet him at the designated time and place, Micah was not there and he did not show. We went back home called him. Apparently Micah did not know we were coming. So Paul set up a new time and we turned around and went right back to the same place. This time, Micah was there. Paul was pretty disappointed when he looked at the Rattlesnakes. There was no AZ Black in the bunch as Paul was promised, The Tiger was not right at all, and had a very swollen tail at the very base of its rattle. There was also two Speckleds, and The rest were a bunch of Western Diamond Rattlesnakes including a couple that Micah said he thought were Diamondback X Mojave hybrids. Paul was really was not interested in acquiring any Diamondbacks, but he hid his disappointment well, and was very thankful to Micah (even though he just drove 10 hours form from Carlsbad, NM to Phoenix, AZ). Micah also brought the sick Blood python, and it was very pretty, but had a bad RI. Micah also brought an 8 foot Burm as well, and asked if I could use it. I had a friend that was a burm nut so I said sure. The three of us chatted for a while about our herp interests, and Micah mentioned he was interested in working with Macklott's Pythons. It turns out that the last time Paul had visited me, he had given me a nice trio of babies that he had just produced. Out of appreciation for the pythons that Micah had given me, I told him he could have a pair of my Macklott's Pythons since he wanted to work with Macklott's so badly. A few weeks later after many attempts to get Micah to actually come to my house, he finally showed up. He loved the Macclott's, and he seemed pretty excited to get them. I was happy just keeping the one as a pet, and was looking forward to raising it up as it was produced by my buddy, Paul. So Micah loaded up his 2 little Pythons and then asked if he could have the third one as well. I was a little surprised, but he really liked it too and he really wanted to have it, so I said "sure what the heck, no problem." So Micah left with my three little pythons, and I was happy that I made him happy. I then called my Burm friend (Christian) and my Blood Python Friend (Terry) and told them about what I had for them, and they were both excited (even though Terry knew his Blood would need treatment). I felt pretty good after that until I got a call from Paul telling me that the two Speckleds had major mites. I felt even worse about a week later when I saw that Micah was selling the Macklott's Pythons, that I gave him, on the AHA classifieds. I Called him, and left a message saying that I gave them to him because he said he wanted to work with Macklotts' Pythons, and that I would have sold them myself if I did not want them. I told him that if he was unhappy with them for any reason that I would be more than happy to take them back, and that I felt he should have offered them back to me rather than try to sell them (especially after such a short period of time). Micah never returned my call or e-mail. I just think he is really lame to go and talk me into giving him those snakes knowing the whole time that he was just going to resell them. Not cool! Giving my friend snakes with mites was also not cool...
 
Hi James. This is news to me. I did meet you and Paul in a parking lot in Awatuhkee, nearly a 45 minute drive for meet. When I arrived you were nowhere to be found. I did bring some rattlesnakes for Paul, some rescues that i took in that were supposedly non feeders, and no most of them did not look very well. When Paul emailed me he was more than happy to work with them and try to rehabilitate them.
I had also offered a sick blood python that i had just picked up from a AHA member that needed some help, you also agreed to take it in. All these snakes were ones that i just picked up from rescues, and you wanted them to give to your friend in New Mexico.
As far as the macklots i came to your home in Higley way after all of the above took place, I even asked how the snakes i gave Paul were doing yopu didn't say anything negative. You even asked me if I see anymore Tigers, Specks, Cerbs, Molussus, femal atrox you would take any for Paul to pick up on one of his little trips from New Mexico.
You then gave me 3 Macklots (you did give them to me) All 3 ended up males, I kept my favorite one , then I did sell one and ended up giving the 3rd away to Krugers. I didn't recieve a 1.2 trio up 3.0 no real need for that many males. I guess when you GAVE them to me, you should have mentioned if I was to get rid of any you would like them back.
I have given people snakes in the past, and they then decide they dont want it, they might end up selling. None of my buisness since they are not mine anymore.
I even bumped into you and Paul on Kitt Peak later on and you made no mention of this. You asked me if i had anymore rattlers I didn't want then you asked me if I ever have any Green Rats I don't to call you. I'm not sure what the big problem is. I gave you snakes that were rescues, you gave me some snakes. I figured they were mine after they were given to me. Live and learn, I guess.
 
Sorry if some of that is hard to understand. I cannot seem to edit my errors, and typing when you are pissed off doesn't help.
 
I understand it ok, and I am not complaining so much about Paul's situation. The mites were not appreciated though, and he drove a long way to get them. When you mentioned Kitt Peak, were you talking about that the trip where you offered to trade that Sonoran Gopher that you caught for the Tiger that Paul found? We both found that to be a little odd? Anyway, I did not know that you were selling the Macclott's at that time. Also, when I say trio I should point out that it was not a sexual trio as we were not sure of their sex. We actually thought they might be a reverse trio. Let me ask you this. When you came to get the 2 macklott's at my house, did you ask me if you could take the 3rd one as well? Did I not tell you that I was keeping it as a pet? Just to refresh your memory, you asked again and said you really wanted it too. You asked until I said ok. When you realized that they were all males, why did you not offer it back to me? Why did you ignore my phone calls and E-mails. You knew I reluctantly gave him up to you in the first place. Don't you think that would have been the right thing to have done? You smooth talked your way into getting the 3 Macklott's with the intention of selling them. And, Yes I guess you had every right to do so. However, that does not change the fact that it was a crappy thing to do. Micah, I am not saying you are a bad guy, but I am saying that others should use caution.

I should also tell you that I gave you a negative trading rating, and after thinking about it I realized I was wrong to do so. The Macklott's were a gift as were the python's that you gave me. So since there was no trade or sale, the negative rating that I gave you was inappropriate. I still do not like the way you handled things, but fair is fair, and right is right. No trade or sale went down between us, so the negative rating does not belong. As a result, I have e-mailed Webslave (rich), and He will restore your rating to where it was before. My apologies for that.
 
Thank you for your re consideration on the negative feedback. You are right and you did want to keep the unusual colored Macklots, I expressed interest in it and you gave it to me. It was the one that I liked. I had no intention on taking the macklots just for a profit. I had thought it was a trio as in 1.2 and when they all turned out to be males, i kept my favorite one, and offered the other up for sale shortly down the road. If I would have known you had wanted the other 2 back that you gave me I certainly would have done so, you did not express to me that you would like them back. Maybe it's my fault for not offering? I am sorry if you feel ripped off or taken advantage of. I did advertise for sale or trade. I believe I traded one, and I traded Kruegers some White Lips for some cages, and I asked if he wanted a Macklots, I got nothing for it.
As far as trading a Sonoran Gopher for a Tiger, I do not recall any trade offers, unless I was joking around and said " Ill give you this gopher for that Tiger." It was a pretty tiger. I may have said that jokingly, but i do not trade or do alot of the "gifting" that many people do. You are the ones that mentioned youd take any gophers,tigers,molussus, corals that I found. You even tried to get me to go back and find the coral snake that I photographed and released.
As far as the mites, I have never personally had one with mites, I treat all bedding with provent a mite, or treat with Black Knight as it goes into quarantine. But with the Tigers and Specks it could have been possible. They were rescues that were to me given from a party who should not of had these snakes in the first place. The WDB's that he took all appeared healthy, the tigers and speck were skinny looking. I never brought them into my collection, they went straight into the garage. You actually kept one of the WDB's I gave to Paul, and showed it to me in your snake room. I knew very little to nothing about the snakes, so if was the case I am sorry.
I am not sure why this is on the Board of Inquiry we never had any deals as in buying selling or trading. I am sorry you feel this way about me.
I drove 45 minutes to show bring you guys the snakes, You were not obligated to take any of them, Paul was willing to work with them, and frankly i was happy he was taking them. I have seen his website and how he works with rattlesnakes, and wheels and deals. If you guys weren't happy with them you shouldn't have taken them. Next time I will just save my self the headache and not adopt out snakes anymore.
If the macklots thing is bothering you that much hopefully when i produce them in the next I will give you a pair.
 
Greg. Thank you for the information I am well aware that they browse all the same forums the herpers frequent. I did nothing more than GIVE him these rattlesnakes and the pythons. At no time was there any snakes changing hands for anything expected in return. Even when i originally posted the rattlesnakes up for free, i stated that they must be picked up, and they are not for sale. Just as anytime i have ever given away natives. Luckily i have no more native snakes to adopt out and really no more natives for that matter. And will no longer be doing anything more than "collect" a picture.
 
Clearification. Micah gave Paul the crots. I ended up getting the sick blood and the burm for two different friends that could give them the care and space that they needed. No laws broken there, But I think I know what you are referring to Greg, and like I remember that we both found it very odd. BTW, Paul is not posting. and has always been absoluetly leagl in all of his dealings.
 
Micah, I DID contact you through e-mail and I left a message on your phone. I got no response. Greg, yes there was mention of a trade offer, and I have no idea if Micah was serious. Obviously Neither of even considered taking him up on it serious or not. We just polietly declined. As for the coral. I would love to photograph one, but do not have any desire at all to ever keep one of those things. Hope that helps.
 
US Fish & Wildlife...

The comment about these guys prompted me to speak up. I ended up talking to a Law Enforcement Officer with US Fish & Game a couple days ago in reguards to an individual selling non-documented Gilas. He had no interest in pursuing the matter. Needless to say I was surprised at this. :shrug01:
 
Rescues...

:smash: I do a lot of rescues and I tell everyone upfront that these animals are no to be sold or end up in the pet trade. If it doesn't work out I will take them back and rehome them. I have had friends sell rescues I had given them and it really :bleep: me off. I do not charge an adoption fee and I do not sell rescued herps. I just want them to have a good home. :beer:
 
I hear ya. I made sure that both of those Pythons from Micah went into good hands. They both went to people that are very much into that species. There was no money involved as there was no way I could stand behind them or gaurantee thier health. Micah did a good thing in giving them to me. I appreciate that, and I am glad I was able to help place them into good homes. Micah benifited for getting them out of his place. I benifited by making two local herp friends happy. And the pythons and their new owners also benifited for obvious reasons. It was a good thing that Micah did. As for the Crots, they really have nothing to do with my gripe except that I was stressing about the mite thing, and the possible contamination that could have spread to my collection. Other than that I really do not care. My main complaint was simply Micah talked me out of my last Macklott's Python, when I really did not to give it up, and then listed them for sale. When I called him and left a message explaining that I would like them back, I got no response from him. I got the same silence from my e-mail that I sent as well. That is my main gripe. It is not the end of the world, and as he said. Live and learn. I have learned. As for giving me any babies. There is no need, and it is not necessary or desired.
 
Well, for those who care, here is what I have to say about this whole thing. I will only speak about my dealings with Micah (in brief).

I first approached Micah about some free rattlesnakes he offered on one of the forums, I think it was this one. We eventually met up in Phoenix and I got some rattlesnakes from him: a tiger, blacktail, mojave, 2 speckleds, 3 western diamondbacks and a blood and burmese python. I think that was everything...

I got the rattlesnakes and when I got home, I discovered mites on the speckleds and that the tiger had something wrong with its rattle base. Anyway, only the blacktail (feeds only sporadically on live mice) has done well to any extent for me. The tiger and specks never ate and eventually died. The westerns and speckleds were given another home (for free, no money nor trades involved). And that is that. To say I was disappointed would be pretty accurate. I knew some of these animals were rescues but I somewhat expected some of them to be in a bit better shape.

One time last year when I was in Arizona doing some herping with James, we ran into Micah and his friend while road cruising. We found a nice tiger rattlesnake and showed Micah. Throughout the course of the night as we passed each other on the road and occasionally stopped to talk. At some point in one of the conversations, the subject of blue specks came up. I told him I had a female "blue" speck and was looking for a mate for her. He said he had a male blue speck and that he would gift it to me... when I gift him the tiger we just found. At that point, James and I drew the line. I think I said something loudly like "oh, so you want to trade!" and Micah quickly backed off of it. I don't know if he was joking or being serious but I know that neither James nor I wanted anything to do with that.

That's all that I can say about it. There was no issue of trading, selling or anything. I didn't even know that Micah was interested in macklots until we met up when he gave me the rattlesnakes. He mentioned several different herps he wanted to work with and macklots was one of them. I offered to get him some of my babies from the next year but James still had some that I gave to him.

Anyway, what Micah did was pretty low in my opinion. But that's my opinion and that's all I can say about it as that was something that happened between James and Micah. Once I gave James those pesky little pythons, they were his mess to deal with :)

Paul Huang
 
Wheels within wheels...this is going to boil down to a he said/she said sort of thing. The only ones caught in the middle were the serpents...luckily, at least some of them are recovering and being cared for...

Tim, I agree with you...the authorities seem to have too many other things to do than bother with the herp trade. Both good and bad, I suppose...wheels within...

greg
 
Paul, I owe you an apology. I should have never drug your name into this. I just get too caught up into giving details that really do not have anything to do with anything. You are absoluetly correct. Aside from the mite concern, this really is just about my gripe with the way Micah handled the Macclott's situation. Again my apologies. I just was not using my head, or maybe I was using it too much. Either way, I guess I am not as bright as I would like to be. Sorry about the hassle.
 
As mentioned this is going to be a he said she said thread and get no where, so I am not going to keep going back and forth as I have better things to do.

At no time did I sell or trade any of the rescued pythons. I had the blood for a couple days, I was told it was sick before I went and picked it up. It came home went directly in the garage, and the heat bumped up. I felt I was doing it a favor from resuing it from its current living situation. I gave it to Paul or James.
The burmese was a rescue picked up in that very parking lot and never made it home.
The rattlesnakes never entered my collection and they were housed in the garage, I do not bring new animals into the home until quarantined. If they had mites i'm sorry, all i did is offer them all food in the extremly short time they were here. You seemed happy to get them when you picked them up. If not you should have said so, and i would have taken them home and worked with them myself.
As far as this trading offer non sense. I was up there taking pictures, and ran into you guys, and we spoke for a few minutes. Yes I had just picked up a gopher moments before hand, and was going to photograph it and release it. You did ask if I was going to keep it, I looked at the tiger that you collected, it was a nice on for that area yes. I may have jokingly commented about giving you the gopher, but it would have been just that. JOKING. Who in their right mind would want to give a tiger for a gopher snake, C'mon. But apparently now the story has changed to a female blue speck. I'm sorry that is a little outrageous also. A female blue speck for what appeared to be a male tiger.
I myself know all the good spots for tigers, and at the time I believe i'm sure I had a nice trio anyhow but that was 8 months ago. Anything I had back then was GIVEN away a long time ago so i can focus on pythons and boas.

Anyhow,This is all my word against yours, maybe you know more people and have more friends, so they will believe you? I don't know. I find it very odd that this is all being brought up now. I gave you them crotes in Feb. I picked the Macklot up i believe in March, I am thinking i bumped into you herping in June or July( I will ask my brother, he was the one with me) If it was July that is still 8 months ago, so why are your panties all in a bunch all of the sudden? Very puzzling. But I am not going to waste my time going back and forth over this. You obviously wanted to make me look bad over something, and you have probably done it. I'm not going to keep going back and forth, so I'm sure you will chime in again, you seem to me to be the type who has to get in the last word, so go ahead.
Micah
 
Actually, I agree with you Micah. That is more or less the way things went, and I do appreciate the apology about the mite thing. I did not end up getting them, but it was a bit of a scare. Again, my main complaint was the macklott's situation, and how it went down. The only "he said, she said" aspect to all of this is that I did contact you about getting them back after I saw they were posted for sale by both e-mail and by phone, and you say That I did not. Again that is it in a nutshell. Can we call it an end. If you say yes, you will have the last word.
 
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