Dragons Dynasty
New member
SELLERS BEWARE HE WANTS THE REPTILE AND THE MONEY
Michael R Trombley ( ragelesspanda ) contacted me about this ad http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497941
We came to an agreement that he would purchase the Translucent Super Citrus for $250 with two payments of $125 each. He made both payments and the dragon was shipped on Oct 1, 2014. the following emails are what transpired after that.
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
hey. I just got home and saw the dragon was just delivered. did they say what happened
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2014 17:06:22 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Hey, Sorry I was taking him out and bathing him and getting him all warm and calm. They said something about a detour because the airport in my city had to close....
They guy walked up with the box sideways and then twists it around upright real fast and hands it to me. (I was waiting outside at this point.)
He seems fine, he has a little like bite or wound in his mouth on the front left side though.
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2014 18:06:21 -0700
Subject: RE: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
I also noticed his femoral glands look a little swollen. Couldn't get him to open his mouth but you can see he can't close it all the way.
On Oct 2, 2014 5:23 PM, "Karen Treharn" <[email protected]> wrote:
I hate it that they don't take better care. The box clearly states there is a live reptile inside. Send me a pic of that, he was in his own enclosure by himself for the last few weeks. I didn't notice anything when I checked him over before shipping. I will look at his video as well and see if I see anything there.
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 6:45 PM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
From that picture he looks like he's been through the ringer. I will get the video uploaded to photobucket and you can see that he did not look like that going into the box. I feel bad for him. I can't really tell from the video if his lip was like that before he left or not.
He was with a female up until a couple of weeks ago, so that may be why his glands are still large. I know they get like that during breeding season.
If you have any doubts and want to return him for a refund, I have not problem with that.
I will email you a link to the video when it is complete. Sometimes it takes a while, I have even had to upload several times before it actually works. I do not like photobucket anymore, it is soooo slow and then when you think its finally done it says there was an error.
Michael Trombley
To: Karen Treharn
I was just letting you know for shipping reasons. Not sure if you used Reptile Express or ShipYourReptile but SYR is really good and if you want a coupon code use beardie40 for a 40% discount. I absolutely love him! He is in the 10 gallon quarantine/feeding tank right now resting. My local lowes and home depot were out of plexiglass sheets so I have an open face cage sitting here with no doors haha, its not very effective
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2014 18:51:04 -0700
Subject: RE: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Looking better already.
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
Just fyi, I have used this ( http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/plaque-attack-triple-care-pet-dental-spray/ID=prod6080854-product ) for injuries around the mouth before. It works great to kill bacteria and is not harmful if swallowed. I always have some in my bearded's first aid kit.
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2014 19:07:14 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Thank you so much! I was just looking at ointments for the mouth haha.
this will be amazing to have
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
Let me know how much it is with tax and I will refund that amount back to you.
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2014 19:14:46 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Thats so nice of you! We don't have sales tax so it should be too much I will try to send you a picture of the receipt tomorrow. I am so busy tonight
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 7:21 PM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
I don't need a pic of receipt. I just feel so bad that I didn't notice that. He's been eating all his salads and bugs. I even fed him a few extra superworms that morning so he didn't go on a empty stomach.
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2014 19:22:29 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
It doesn't really seem to bother him, he ate a few dubia and 2 horned worms when he got here so he should be good and hydrated and full
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
Sounds like beardie heaven. Keep feeding him hornworms and he's going to be your new best friend.
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2014 19:27:46 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
They were some fatties too. Around 4'' each i think. Hes a cute little eater, he loves to be hand fed.
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 7:30 PM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
It was hard to let him go. He would always climb up my arm when I would open his cage to feed or clean. I would let him hang on my shoulder for a while. Maybe he knew that was how he could see the ladies.
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2014 20:30:23 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
He is a super cute little guy. I am concerned about the sore in his mouth, but I hope it isnt anything serious. Damn fedex people need to be more careful.
On Oct 4, 2014 10:07 AM, "Karen Treharn" <[email protected]> wrote:
Did you get the stuff for his mouth yet. How is he doing?
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:08 AM, Michael Trombley <[email protected]> wrote:
Our Walgreens had to order it because they were out but he's doing good and it looks like its healing up on its own but I'm still going to go get that ointment
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Michael Trombley <[email protected]> wrote:
So my Walgreens just called and said they can't order it because they don't carry it....so apparently i was lied to by the manager. Anyway I had to order it myself and it was $20.98, if you wanted to refund $15 that would be fine, I don't mind paying for the shipping.
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 13:16:36 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
I have been looking at him more and more and I noticed he has some nipped spikes all over his beard that were not advertised, and he had quite a few layers of scaled stuck on him in a few places. He honestly just doesn't seem to be the healthy dragon you advertised. You also never said he was with a female, you said he had started head bobbing, and when I asked about the swollen glands you said it was because he was with a female. I wouldn't have had any issue paying $250 for him if he was truly perfect but in his condition I couldn't do more than $150 for him. If you would like to refund the amount to resell for $150 that is fine, if not I can return him with no issue.
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
Just go ahead and return him. I will refund your money when I receive the dragon. I know he was shedding but that happens constantly when they are growing. I even pointed out on his video that he was shedding. I told you that he was with a female a few weeks ago. It also stated in the description on the website that he was with a female, but soon after putting him on the website I put him back in his own enclosure. It still stated on the website that he was with a female as I didn't change that.
None of the things you mention makes for an unhealthy dragon. But I don't mind getting him back.
Here is his description from the website:
B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
Male 17 1/2" 295 grams, black eyes. He is ready, head bobbing and black bearding. He is in with B4-3
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 17:37:05 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
The shed wasnt one layer though, it was a few layers piled up, left on. He is missing parts of his spikes around his beard and neck, and he could be heavier to be honest. Your website has also been unpublished/down for two days. Please don't make this hard, you did not fully describe the condition of the dragon and then you act like nothing is wrong when the clear problems are brought to light. I am also failing to see the logic in me sending you the dragon before a refund is issued, I sent you money before I had the dragon. I also need your address so I can see how much to make the shipping invoice for.
On Oct 4, 2014 6:04 PM, "Karen Treharn" <[email protected]> wrote:
My address is:
Karen Treharn
XXXXX XXXXXX XX
Brooksville, FL 34601
You can go through reptiles express for a shipping label. I am not making this difficult. Ship him back priority overnight and I will refund your money through paypal. Very easy.
I did unpublish my website last night, so it has not been down for two days. And I did so due to a large number of the dragons having been sold. I have not had time to update the site and republish.
Please email me the tracking # when you have it.
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 18:15:48 -0700
Subject: RE: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
So you're wanting me to ship him, and wait for you to get him before i get refunded?
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 6:27 PM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
Yes.
I video all outgoing and incoming shipments, so I have a recording of what was shipped as it is being packaged and was received as it is being opened.
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 19:04:50 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Thats cool and all, but that still doesn't protect me from being a victim. I don't understand why you can't refund the money and then wait to pay for the shipping invoice once you have the dragon. There is no logic here, I payed you without having anything, and now you want me to send something back without receiving something. I can't ship the dragon back until I get refunded. After that I can ship him back and then send you an invoice for the shipping when you receive him.
On Oct 4, 2014 7:14 PM, "Karen Treharn" <[email protected]> wrote:
Then I guess we are at an impasse.
My terms on the website are clearly stated as follows:
"All orders of live feeders or reptiles are guaranteed to arrive alive as long as delivery is successful on first delivery attempt. Please make sure you are available for delivery. If the unfortunate should happen and you receive a DOA, you must notify me within the first 6 hours of arrival. Please do not dispose of animal until notification is made, as I may require proof. DOA's will be replaced with an equal or greater value animal or refund, determination will be made on a case by case basis."
That being said I would rather take a dragon back then it be where it is unwanted.
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 19:19:40 -0700
Subject: RE: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
You're completely misunderstanding the situation.
Its not that I don't want him it's that the condition of health he is in does not make him worth what I paid for him. That being said your terms and conditions state that dead on arrival animals must be reported within 6 hours this is a dispute of quality.
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 7:24 PM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
I am sorry you feel that way. But as stated before I will be more than happy to take him back.
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 20:43:21 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
You're just repeating the same thing trying to avoid the correct solution. You can either refund the full amount and I will ship him back and send you an invoice for the shipping, or I can dispute this with my bank, you're choice.
On Oct 4, 2014 9:00 PM, "Karen Treharn" <[email protected]> wrote:
You wouldn't order something from somewhere else and then tell them you think its worth less, so they should refund 42% of your purchase price.
This is what you are asking me to do.
Or since it is not to your liking they should refund your money first and then you will ship the item back.
I don't know of any business that would do either of your two request.
I am repeating myself because this is the way the reptile, and any other industry works. Ship the dragon back and I will send a refund. Simple as that. NO MUSS, NO FUSS. My reputation is worth more than $250 and I have no interest in keeping something that doesn't belong to me. However, you seem to want both. First you email and say you want a 42% refund and you will keep the dragon or you "can return him with no issues" , so please do so.
Make sure you tell your bank that I am offering a refund as soon as my dragon is returned. I know I will. You have already stated you wanted both a refund and the dragon. So you started this request in a not so trustworthy position.
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 21:56:18 -0700
Subject: RE: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Funny thing is I talked to two others about this and showed them pictures. They agree with me, they both said that refunds are given first, seller should pay for return shipping and they saw the pictures and they didn't think that I was being unreasonable or anything. You did not give accurate information about the dragon and then you get mixed up and make excuses as to why he has these problems. It feels like you were the one who didn't want him. Why didn't the description say anything about his neck and beard spikes being nipped? He is surprisingly light for his age, and he has MULTIPLE layers of shed stuck on his scales, not just one layer. I have bearded dragons and you act like this is my first one. You make have been able to fool a few people into thinking that their dragons were perfect, but you and I both know this dragon was nibbled on as a baby and you didn't advertise that. When I bring the issues up you just state your DOA clause, as if this is the same situation. This dragon arrived not as advertised, and now you are going through some strange procedures to give the refund and get the dragon back. Nobody else thinks its right that you don't want to give the refund till you have the dragon and you have no issue with his health, another flag someone brought up to me. This is your last chance to conduct yourself like a real business and not like some greedy reptile hoarder. Because honestly thats what it seems like, you say you took your website down because too many dragon sold, I was following your site until it went down (two days ago, not one day) and you didn't even have 1/2 of them sold..... and you had a lot of dragons. I wonder if I can find any review from others, I think I'll search around.
On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 8:21 AM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
Your first email about this stated you wanted a 42% refund and you wanted to keep the dragon. There is no way I would trust that you would send the dragon back after refunding your money. So you can quit trying to bully me into doing that, it isn't going to happen.
I can talk to many people and they would agree with me. Ship the dragon back and get a refund of your purchase price.
I did not get mixed up with any information, maybe you got confused when reading it.
I didn't make any excuses for any issues, he's shedding, he's a male that had previously been with a female, he is still a sub-adult and growing. These are all natural things that happen to a bearded dragon, they are not unhealthy and there is nothing I can do to stop it, the only cure would be an early demise.
I can't confirm any "nipped spikes" as I don't see any on all the pictures and the video I had taken of him. Just for future reference, nipped spikes does not make a dragon unhealthy, unless it was infected.
As far as the website, I started with over 150 dragons, I was down to 72 left on the website and someone purchased 65 of those on Friday. So I took it down until I could update it, I did not want someone to try to purchase a dragon that was already sold.
I gave you my terms because those are my terms. Nothing more, nothing less, live arrival is all I guarantee. I have no idea what someone is doing with the dragons they receive, nor do I know what kind of care they are being given. I have extended to you to return the dragon for a refund as a good business person.
Not that it is any of your business:
I have been a breeder for a long time and most of my customers were repeat buyers over many years. I have decided for personal reasons to no longer breed dragons. That is the only reason why my dragons were sold.
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 09:35:22 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
This was a dispute about quality and health, which you don't seem to understand. I am going to be issuing a Charge Back. If you would like the dragon back, you can issue a return label to me though email.
On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
The quality of this dragon can clearly be seen in his photos and video. The "health" issues are things that happen to a dragon naturally. I can't change their DNA because you "feel" it is unhealthy. What a joke. It is not unhealthy to shed. It is not unhealthy to have large pores during breeding season. It is not unhealthy for a dragon not to be at full weight when they are not full grown.
Even if it had missing spikes, as you say, that is still not a health issue. I have one with a missing leg, she is still healthy.
Maybe you should do more research before obtaining an animal you clearly know nothing about.
Make sure you tell them you want your money and the dragon, when you do that charge back. I will certainly be sending them the email where you were demanding both.
He has now put in a claim through paypal stating:
10/7/2014 18:51 PDT - Buyer: I recieved my bearded dragon and it was not in great condition. It arrived in very poor health.
This is a link to the video of the dragon being packaged for shipment:
http://s48.photobucket.com/user/dragonsdynasty/media/10012014_zps81e96a50.mp4.html
He had told me that he was banned on Fauna but I did not look into enough or maybe I would have used some common sense and cancelled the sale and refunded his first payment. This is the link he sent me as to why he was banned.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=499373&goto=newpost
I wish I would have found this one:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=499492
Michael R Trombley ( ragelesspanda ) contacted me about this ad http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497941
We came to an agreement that he would purchase the Translucent Super Citrus for $250 with two payments of $125 each. He made both payments and the dragon was shipped on Oct 1, 2014. the following emails are what transpired after that.
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
hey. I just got home and saw the dragon was just delivered. did they say what happened
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2014 17:06:22 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Hey, Sorry I was taking him out and bathing him and getting him all warm and calm. They said something about a detour because the airport in my city had to close....
They guy walked up with the box sideways and then twists it around upright real fast and hands it to me. (I was waiting outside at this point.)
He seems fine, he has a little like bite or wound in his mouth on the front left side though.
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2014 18:06:21 -0700
Subject: RE: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
I also noticed his femoral glands look a little swollen. Couldn't get him to open his mouth but you can see he can't close it all the way.
On Oct 2, 2014 5:23 PM, "Karen Treharn" <[email protected]> wrote:
I hate it that they don't take better care. The box clearly states there is a live reptile inside. Send me a pic of that, he was in his own enclosure by himself for the last few weeks. I didn't notice anything when I checked him over before shipping. I will look at his video as well and see if I see anything there.
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 6:45 PM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
From that picture he looks like he's been through the ringer. I will get the video uploaded to photobucket and you can see that he did not look like that going into the box. I feel bad for him. I can't really tell from the video if his lip was like that before he left or not.
He was with a female up until a couple of weeks ago, so that may be why his glands are still large. I know they get like that during breeding season.
If you have any doubts and want to return him for a refund, I have not problem with that.
I will email you a link to the video when it is complete. Sometimes it takes a while, I have even had to upload several times before it actually works. I do not like photobucket anymore, it is soooo slow and then when you think its finally done it says there was an error.
Michael Trombley
To: Karen Treharn
I was just letting you know for shipping reasons. Not sure if you used Reptile Express or ShipYourReptile but SYR is really good and if you want a coupon code use beardie40 for a 40% discount. I absolutely love him! He is in the 10 gallon quarantine/feeding tank right now resting. My local lowes and home depot were out of plexiglass sheets so I have an open face cage sitting here with no doors haha, its not very effective
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2014 18:51:04 -0700
Subject: RE: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Looking better already.
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
Just fyi, I have used this ( http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/plaque-attack-triple-care-pet-dental-spray/ID=prod6080854-product ) for injuries around the mouth before. It works great to kill bacteria and is not harmful if swallowed. I always have some in my bearded's first aid kit.
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2014 19:07:14 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Thank you so much! I was just looking at ointments for the mouth haha.
this will be amazing to have
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
Let me know how much it is with tax and I will refund that amount back to you.
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2014 19:14:46 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Thats so nice of you! We don't have sales tax so it should be too much
I will try to send you a picture of the receipt tomorrow. I am so busy tonight On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 7:21 PM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
I don't need a pic of receipt. I just feel so bad that I didn't notice that. He's been eating all his salads and bugs. I even fed him a few extra superworms that morning so he didn't go on a empty stomach.
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2014 19:22:29 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
It doesn't really seem to bother him, he ate a few dubia and 2 horned worms when he got here so he should be good and hydrated and full
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
Sounds like beardie heaven. Keep feeding him hornworms and he's going to be your new best friend.
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2014 19:27:46 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
They were some fatties too. Around 4'' each i think. Hes a cute little eater, he loves to be hand fed.
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 7:30 PM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
It was hard to let him go. He would always climb up my arm when I would open his cage to feed or clean. I would let him hang on my shoulder for a while. Maybe he knew that was how he could see the ladies.
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2014 20:30:23 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
He is a super cute little guy. I am concerned about the sore in his mouth, but I hope it isnt anything serious. Damn fedex people need to be more careful.
On Oct 4, 2014 10:07 AM, "Karen Treharn" <[email protected]> wrote:
Did you get the stuff for his mouth yet. How is he doing?
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:08 AM, Michael Trombley <[email protected]> wrote:
Our Walgreens had to order it because they were out but he's doing good and it looks like its healing up on its own but I'm still going to go get that ointment
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Michael Trombley <[email protected]> wrote:
So my Walgreens just called and said they can't order it because they don't carry it....so apparently i was lied to by the manager. Anyway I had to order it myself and it was $20.98, if you wanted to refund $15 that would be fine, I don't mind paying for the shipping.
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 13:16:36 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
I have been looking at him more and more and I noticed he has some nipped spikes all over his beard that were not advertised, and he had quite a few layers of scaled stuck on him in a few places. He honestly just doesn't seem to be the healthy dragon you advertised. You also never said he was with a female, you said he had started head bobbing, and when I asked about the swollen glands you said it was because he was with a female. I wouldn't have had any issue paying $250 for him if he was truly perfect but in his condition I couldn't do more than $150 for him. If you would like to refund the amount to resell for $150 that is fine, if not I can return him with no issue.
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
Just go ahead and return him. I will refund your money when I receive the dragon. I know he was shedding but that happens constantly when they are growing. I even pointed out on his video that he was shedding. I told you that he was with a female a few weeks ago. It also stated in the description on the website that he was with a female, but soon after putting him on the website I put him back in his own enclosure. It still stated on the website that he was with a female as I didn't change that.
None of the things you mention makes for an unhealthy dragon. But I don't mind getting him back.
Here is his description from the website:
B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
Male 17 1/2" 295 grams, black eyes. He is ready, head bobbing and black bearding. He is in with B4-3
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 17:37:05 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
The shed wasnt one layer though, it was a few layers piled up, left on. He is missing parts of his spikes around his beard and neck, and he could be heavier to be honest. Your website has also been unpublished/down for two days. Please don't make this hard, you did not fully describe the condition of the dragon and then you act like nothing is wrong when the clear problems are brought to light. I am also failing to see the logic in me sending you the dragon before a refund is issued, I sent you money before I had the dragon. I also need your address so I can see how much to make the shipping invoice for.
On Oct 4, 2014 6:04 PM, "Karen Treharn" <[email protected]> wrote:
My address is:
Karen Treharn
XXXXX XXXXXX XX
Brooksville, FL 34601
You can go through reptiles express for a shipping label. I am not making this difficult. Ship him back priority overnight and I will refund your money through paypal. Very easy.
I did unpublish my website last night, so it has not been down for two days. And I did so due to a large number of the dragons having been sold. I have not had time to update the site and republish.
Please email me the tracking # when you have it.
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 18:15:48 -0700
Subject: RE: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
So you're wanting me to ship him, and wait for you to get him before i get refunded?
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 6:27 PM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
Yes.
I video all outgoing and incoming shipments, so I have a recording of what was shipped as it is being packaged and was received as it is being opened.
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 19:04:50 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Thats cool and all, but that still doesn't protect me from being a victim. I don't understand why you can't refund the money and then wait to pay for the shipping invoice once you have the dragon. There is no logic here, I payed you without having anything, and now you want me to send something back without receiving something. I can't ship the dragon back until I get refunded. After that I can ship him back and then send you an invoice for the shipping when you receive him.
On Oct 4, 2014 7:14 PM, "Karen Treharn" <[email protected]> wrote:
Then I guess we are at an impasse.
My terms on the website are clearly stated as follows:
"All orders of live feeders or reptiles are guaranteed to arrive alive as long as delivery is successful on first delivery attempt. Please make sure you are available for delivery. If the unfortunate should happen and you receive a DOA, you must notify me within the first 6 hours of arrival. Please do not dispose of animal until notification is made, as I may require proof. DOA's will be replaced with an equal or greater value animal or refund, determination will be made on a case by case basis."
That being said I would rather take a dragon back then it be where it is unwanted.
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 19:19:40 -0700
Subject: RE: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
You're completely misunderstanding the situation.
Its not that I don't want him it's that the condition of health he is in does not make him worth what I paid for him. That being said your terms and conditions state that dead on arrival animals must be reported within 6 hours this is a dispute of quality.
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 7:24 PM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
I am sorry you feel that way. But as stated before I will be more than happy to take him back.
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 20:43:21 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
You're just repeating the same thing trying to avoid the correct solution. You can either refund the full amount and I will ship him back and send you an invoice for the shipping, or I can dispute this with my bank, you're choice.
On Oct 4, 2014 9:00 PM, "Karen Treharn" <[email protected]> wrote:
You wouldn't order something from somewhere else and then tell them you think its worth less, so they should refund 42% of your purchase price.
This is what you are asking me to do.
Or since it is not to your liking they should refund your money first and then you will ship the item back.
I don't know of any business that would do either of your two request.
I am repeating myself because this is the way the reptile, and any other industry works. Ship the dragon back and I will send a refund. Simple as that. NO MUSS, NO FUSS. My reputation is worth more than $250 and I have no interest in keeping something that doesn't belong to me. However, you seem to want both. First you email and say you want a 42% refund and you will keep the dragon or you "can return him with no issues" , so please do so.
Make sure you tell your bank that I am offering a refund as soon as my dragon is returned. I know I will. You have already stated you wanted both a refund and the dragon. So you started this request in a not so trustworthy position.
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 21:56:18 -0700
Subject: RE: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Funny thing is I talked to two others about this and showed them pictures. They agree with me, they both said that refunds are given first, seller should pay for return shipping and they saw the pictures and they didn't think that I was being unreasonable or anything. You did not give accurate information about the dragon and then you get mixed up and make excuses as to why he has these problems. It feels like you were the one who didn't want him. Why didn't the description say anything about his neck and beard spikes being nipped? He is surprisingly light for his age, and he has MULTIPLE layers of shed stuck on his scales, not just one layer. I have bearded dragons and you act like this is my first one. You make have been able to fool a few people into thinking that their dragons were perfect, but you and I both know this dragon was nibbled on as a baby and you didn't advertise that. When I bring the issues up you just state your DOA clause, as if this is the same situation. This dragon arrived not as advertised, and now you are going through some strange procedures to give the refund and get the dragon back. Nobody else thinks its right that you don't want to give the refund till you have the dragon and you have no issue with his health, another flag someone brought up to me. This is your last chance to conduct yourself like a real business and not like some greedy reptile hoarder. Because honestly thats what it seems like, you say you took your website down because too many dragon sold, I was following your site until it went down (two days ago, not one day) and you didn't even have 1/2 of them sold..... and you had a lot of dragons. I wonder if I can find any review from others, I think I'll search around.
On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 8:21 AM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
Your first email about this stated you wanted a 42% refund and you wanted to keep the dragon. There is no way I would trust that you would send the dragon back after refunding your money. So you can quit trying to bully me into doing that, it isn't going to happen.
I can talk to many people and they would agree with me. Ship the dragon back and get a refund of your purchase price.
I did not get mixed up with any information, maybe you got confused when reading it.
I didn't make any excuses for any issues, he's shedding, he's a male that had previously been with a female, he is still a sub-adult and growing. These are all natural things that happen to a bearded dragon, they are not unhealthy and there is nothing I can do to stop it, the only cure would be an early demise.
I can't confirm any "nipped spikes" as I don't see any on all the pictures and the video I had taken of him. Just for future reference, nipped spikes does not make a dragon unhealthy, unless it was infected.
As far as the website, I started with over 150 dragons, I was down to 72 left on the website and someone purchased 65 of those on Friday. So I took it down until I could update it, I did not want someone to try to purchase a dragon that was already sold.
I gave you my terms because those are my terms. Nothing more, nothing less, live arrival is all I guarantee. I have no idea what someone is doing with the dragons they receive, nor do I know what kind of care they are being given. I have extended to you to return the dragon for a refund as a good business person.
Not that it is any of your business:
I have been a breeder for a long time and most of my customers were repeat buyers over many years. I have decided for personal reasons to no longer breed dragons. That is the only reason why my dragons were sold.
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 09:35:22 -0700
Subject: Re: B4-4 Translucent Super Citrus
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
This was a dispute about quality and health, which you don't seem to understand. I am going to be issuing a Charge Back. If you would like the dragon back, you can issue a return label to me though email.
On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Karen Treharn <[email protected]> wrote:
The quality of this dragon can clearly be seen in his photos and video. The "health" issues are things that happen to a dragon naturally. I can't change their DNA because you "feel" it is unhealthy. What a joke. It is not unhealthy to shed. It is not unhealthy to have large pores during breeding season. It is not unhealthy for a dragon not to be at full weight when they are not full grown.
Even if it had missing spikes, as you say, that is still not a health issue. I have one with a missing leg, she is still healthy.
Maybe you should do more research before obtaining an animal you clearly know nothing about.
Make sure you tell them you want your money and the dragon, when you do that charge back. I will certainly be sending them the email where you were demanding both.
He has now put in a claim through paypal stating:
10/7/2014 18:51 PDT - Buyer: I recieved my bearded dragon and it was not in great condition. It arrived in very poor health.
This is a link to the video of the dragon being packaged for shipment:
http://s48.photobucket.com/user/dragonsdynasty/media/10012014_zps81e96a50.mp4.html
He had told me that he was banned on Fauna but I did not look into enough or maybe I would have used some common sense and cancelled the sale and refunded his first payment. This is the link he sent me as to why he was banned.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=499373&goto=newpost
I wish I would have found this one:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=499492
