might be getting out of the "bussiness"

[DAND]

I say hang in there a little longer. Who is to say what next year could bring? Next year you could be posting saying you have too many Leos.

 

[brucestephenson]

Even us tropical fish breeders do not have the same genetic deformity rate, and some fish (guppies, for instance) are line-bred possibly into the thousandths of generations.

I personally with the leos, would change the incubation medium and the type of incubation container that I used. I would go simpler instead of high tech. This is just my personal opinion.

 

[DiabloBoa]

pretty good post chad, wasnt long and winded at all ..

actually im Vinny but its cool (bound to happen i spose, with the diablo and all)
i hope its a simpler cause than inbreeding (or genetics for that matter) if youre pretty sure of the parents then maybe you could get your hands on some adult leos or even someones proven breeders (shoot they could be normals for this purpose) to see if its just some crazy environmental factors. just a thought.
again, good luck!

 

[Jim O]

Dan,

I agree with the consensus here. We have all had bad years. Hang in there. Heck, this was a dissappointing year for me. Most of my eggs went bad (and these were Womas which retail at ~$1200-1500/pair) and the rest of my breeding pairs never ovulated (though I think that one of my Ackies may be gravid now). So...I'll feed them and house them and try again next year.

The point is not to focus on the bad outcomes but rather on the good. You produced eggs, fertile eggs at that. You probably made a few mistakes from which you have learned. If you plan to sell some of your breeders then re-invest in some "new blood". And I agree, consider a change in the incubation technique/medium. Maybe try a different thermostat. Maybe try a different supplement. Or maybe try a different diet for your breeding females. There are so many variables and any one of them could have "gone wrong". Lastly, a little bit of good luck never hurts.

I will wager that with another year's experience under your belt you will see different results.

 

[shrap]

I am truly sorry to hear this Dan. I really feel for you bud, I know it has to be hard. If I was you I would take a step back and not make a decision yet. You are still too emotionally beat up from this. Give yourself some time to regroup and reassess the situation.

My best wishes and prayers are with you.

 

[Vince]

I don't know what kind of mistakes anyone could make incubating. Don't turn the eggs. Constant temps. Keep moist. I think this is a serious matter to look into, how many other thread have there been about this happening. I think the gene pool is so shallow that this is just the beginning of something that can get alot worse.

 

[Crestedleo]

Keep going Dan!

DONT GIVE UP! Keep trying, as I am sure many other breeders can/have told you, there are good years and bad years, just don't give up, keep trying because with the genes you have there I'm sure you'll produce some screaming animals!

 

[Gregg M]

Well I must say that I am disappointed to hear you talk like this Dan..... I guess breeding is not for everyone.....

If you can stick it out through some rough times than you are meant to be a breeder....

If you give up because of a few set backs you are not meant to be a breeder.....

Which person are you Dan????
Are you the one that will give up or are you the one that will stick it out???

If every breeder gave up because of a bad season, we would not have the variety in morphs and bloodlines we have today....

Just something for you to think about Dan.....

Also Dan, your change in supplements could be the issue..... Not because the supplements are no good, but because there was a change and your leos need to adjust to that change.....

 

[Manhattan Herps]

haha, sorry vinny, i saw the "diablo" and well..you know

i agree gregg, thats why i said i wasnt giving up, but taking a break from this, thought about giving up, but that would be silly,winners never quit, and quitters never win right?, never really gave up on anything...so why start now

oh and BTW, it's been two bad seasons, last year all the eggs died and so did a few females.

so i'm not giving up, just not going to breed the exclusively for a while.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Dan, I can fully understand your frustration and disappointment considering what you've been experiencing with your babies this season. I feel the exact same way. As a matter of fact, this has been the absolute worst season I have ever had in the 10 years I have been breeding leopard geckos for many of the same reasons! Almost 1/3 of my breeders this year are first-timers, so many of the first clutches were not fertile. I lost over 20 eggs when a young fellow came to take care of my geckos when we went to Mexico in January and 'watered' all the incubating eggs daily. I had a severe power failure (the only one in 5 years) which I can attribute to the loss of about 30 eggs and the subsequent rash of full-term eggs not hatching. I've had preemies and birth defects. My season got delayed for 2 months with a loss of over 100 offspring! It is heartbreaking and discouraging to say the least, and when this hobby/business can no longer be fun and rewarding, it's time to quit. Right?

OR... we can take a good hard look at how we are doing things. I have been talking with several other breeders to compare notes on how they supplement their geckos and incubate their eggs. For example, I will no longer be taking short-cuts when reusing the incubation medium in my deli cups. I am going to keep my feeders in cleaner, more sanitary conditions, and remove any die-offs daily. This was the first year I used Vionate, and will not longer be using it in my gutload. I threw away the Sandfire T-Rex Leopard Gecko ICB. I will be incorporating better controllers for my incubators, and perhaps a battery back-up as well. I will also take a serious look at my supplementation and how it has differed from the past, and be more frugal about the amount of VitD & VitA I will be using. If it means cutting back on the number of geckos in order to be able to do these things effectively, then perhaps that is what is needed.

All I can say is that when I see that beautiful, sweet, fat little hatchling looking up at me when I peek in the incubator, my joy never ceases... and that is when I know the reason I do this. I honestly can't say what I would do without these precious, gentle creatures.

 

[diablohogs]

alot has been said already but i would like say this...

sometimes you just need to thin out the herd and give everyone a vacation from breeding.

breeding can be very stressful for them.

 

[g&mgeckos]

Dan, I really don't think you should give up! I went through some personal heartaches myself about six years ago. I lost all of my reptiles. Most where stolen from me what was left I sold off, because I was just discussed with the whole deal. About a year ago I started back up by myself with no partners. I got to tell you when that first egg hatched this year I cried like a baby! Now I looked back and wish I would have never gave up before. I feel like I am so far behind everybody else. Hind site is 20/20!

I have included one of my personal favorite pics YOU have posted lately of one of YOUR hatchlings to remind you it as NOT BEEN ALL BAD this year. When you posted this picture I added you to my list of breeders I wanted to get my breeders from!

I understand cutting back just don't quit! You WOULD be missed.

 

[DiabloBoa]

crap theres alot of love on this forum!
hey Marcia i promise i wouldnt water your eggs (im sure he meant well) and would be happy to babysit for you.

not to bring up more worse case scenarios but you said last year was the same problem and you lost some breeders? could it be some virus or disease? is there any way to rule this out that any one knows of?

 

[DiabloBoa]

oh ya are they pretty much the same breeders from last year?

 

[Manhattan Herps]

if your asking me, i had 3 females die while laying their 2-3rd clutches

 

[aliceinwl]

Last year after my temp spike, I lost a lot of eggs. Once the eggs died, they started to rot at random intervals, producing a lot of fumes. Since I was using Albey's method, the fumes just built up. I think that these fumes probably ended up killing more eggs and drove some of my guys to hatch prematurely. For awhile, I was losing tons of eggs, many with full term babies. I ended up having to clean the incubation containers, change out the perlite, and keep the containers at 1/2 to 1/3 capacity with a couple of holes in the lid. I still had to check everyday for dead eggs (sniff test) and remove them. The holes (they were fairly substantial as I felt I needed some good air exchange) also meant, that I had to periodically re-moisten the perlite. After doing this, I started to have more babies make it out of the egg alive. You should not notice any significant odor in your incubation containers. If you feel you're going through something similar this season, hopefully the above will help. Last year, this enabled me to pull my season out of a nose dive.

-Alice