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Neil Gubitz

TampaSnakePit.com
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On Tesday morning, I got an email from him asking me to call him on the phone so we could discuss the purchase of my Dumeril's monitor.... we spent about 1/2 hour on the phone, and eventually agreed on a trade/cash deal.... he told me IT'S SOLD, and to take it off line (which I did), We agreed that he was going to come to my store on Saturday and complete the trade/cash deal.... About ten minutes ago, I get another email saying that he found one in Orlando, 2 months old, and he WON'T be coming in on Saturday!

And you folks wonder why I DON'T take deposits, or hold things for someone! I went against my OWN rules this one time, because he sounded very sincere over the phone, and I got burned!

Don't get me wrong.... I didn't lose any money and I've still got the Dumeril's, it's just the way he went about this deal that irks me! ....Neil
 
Well,  at least he called you back to let you know.  He could have just not shown up and left you holding the animal for another day or so.   I don't think that makes him a bad guy in my book.

Mark
 
Mark.... I didn't say he was a bad guy?? All I said was that he Backed Out of a DONE DEAL?? There IS a difference.... We had a "verbal" contract, and he just defaulted on it.... I'm upset at his credibility, that's it.... yes, you're right.... he could have just not shown up, but.... to me, there's no difference, he STILL went back on his WORD!! ....Neil
 
If a person gives his word, it should mean something. If a person does not keep his word, it does mean something, not to be trusted. What does it say in your book?



Jerry Dorgan



welcome back Niel
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Mark.... I didn't say he was a bad guy?? All I said was that he Backed Out of a DONE DEAL?? </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
1.  Well if he made this his routine....then I can see the problem.
2.  If he cost you money...then I can see the problem


yes I back out of deals all the time for numerous reasons
1. run out of money
2. decide I like another animal
3. I read something about the person that makes me suspicious
4. I read something the person says to me in e-mails that make me uspicious

Shoot if I posted every single person who backs out on my deals....I would make a new "thread" every other day.  I would have two million posts instead of just the one million I already have (figuratively speaking)

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If a person gives his word, it should mean something. If a person does not keep his word, it does mean something, not to be trusted. What does it say in your book?
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>  In my book it says the person changed his mind.
What would happen if you were a car dealer and I was buying a car off you.  Then I told You I would take delivery this weekend.  Then on wednesday I find a better car for half the price.  You would be glad that I at least contacted you.  Then you would probably try to beat the other persons deal


If I told you I was gonna buy your $1500 albino boa.
Then I find one on sale for $750...you can bet your sweet @ss that our deal is as good as null and void.  I am gonna save me $750 bucks.

Business is business and everyone seems to lose sight of that.
Its business and that is the bottom line.
We are all in it for money and that is the bottom line.
I love my animals....they are my pets.  but d@mn!! I like the money too.
ANYONE who sells a reptile is in it for the money.
If someone says "I am not in it for the money"  Then i tell that person to go ahead and send me a couple of the snakes they are selling for free.
 
ritchie


I beg to differ, yes people are entitled to chnage their minds, but when  you tell some one to stop advertising something or mark it as sold, its because its technically sold, this goes beyond chit chat and yeah "I think I want it" small talk, he spacifically said, "take it off line, its sold", that is a broken deal, not a change of mind
 
"Business is business and everyone seems to lose sight of that"
I don't think anyone looses sight of this concept. But why can't a persons word be as good as a written "buisiness" contract? According to Neil's post the guy told Neil to consider it sold and to take it off the market, set up a time to meet and pay. Not, let me think about this. Or I need to check you out on BOI. Or I just want to wait a little while to compare prices. NO, he gave his word he would come in person to purchase the animal. I have changed my mind on a couple of deals after some thought, but not after I give my word. I say change your mind all you want, but don't give your word until you are certain you will carry out your part of the bargain. I know buisiness do not run like this, but it's a shame no one wants to stand behind their word.
 
Sorry I got cut off. No one wants to stand behind their word and uses the excuse "buisiness is buisness" just to make themselves feel better. The reality is they go back on their given word, they lied.
 
WOW I really hate to say this seeing as me and Neil have had our problems but he's 100% right on this.
1  he gave his word
2  he told Neil to take it off the site
3  he set a time and date to pay him

Yes everyone can change there mind on things but not after you give your word on something thats just not the way things should be done. When you give someone your word that should be just as good as anyother kind of contract you can think of.
 
So if I tell the mustang dealer I am gonna buy his mustang for $25,000 and  to consider it sold.
then I find a ferrari on sale for $20,000
are you telling me I have to get stuck with the mustang?


Are you telling me I have to buy the $1500 boa instead of the $750 boa?

Are you telling me that I have to buy the boa instead of paying my rent?

Sorry.  my money is my money.  And until I take delivery of car, boat, plane, motorcycle, snake or anything else.  I have the right to change my mind.

Quick question.  Anyone ever return anything at the store after purchasing it...because they changed their minds?


I see both sides really.  I am both a buyer and a seller.  So I see both sides.
As a seller I try to uphold the highest standards. and give my customers some leway.
As a byer I expect a little leway.  And uphold the sellers to the highest standards.

Just recently I sold my most favorite baby burm for $370.
I held a little auction for her.  I said the auction ends when I get home from work.  so $370 was it.  Well an hour later I get an offer for $450....I politely declined.  I could have used the extra money for groceries....But I already gave my word that the auction will end and that the guy with the $370 offer can have her.  As a seller I held true to my word.

As a buyer......well I will have changes of minds.  I might tell you to take it off the market and to consider it sold.  But if the guy next to you has one for exactly half price....you can bet I would buy that one isntead.


Okay a little scenario.
Guy A is selling a $1500 albino boa.

I have $1500 and make a deal with guy A.

Then I run into guy B who is selling them for $700.


How many people would buy from guy A?
How many people would buy from Guy B?

As for me...I would back out of the deal with guy A and buy two(2) from guy B and still have some money for snake food.
Call it what you want.  I call it smart shopper.  It is my right....it is my hard earned money.  And if you wanna cry because you can't have my money....then you are in the wrong biz
 
Ritchie.... do you understand that with the reply you just gave, you are basically telling us that YOUR WORD MEANS NOTHING?? If you give YOUR WORD that you're going to buy something, and the dealer is nice enough to NOT take a non-refundable deposit, that you have every right to say forget it?
What would you have done if the guy that won your auction said, the heck with it, I don't want it anymore... and you didn't have the other guy's email addy that bid higher?? Would you EVER do business with him again? I don't think so!
I am talking about somebody's WORD, their INTEGRITY, their MORALS, and their ETHICS! Once you give your word.... that should be CAST IN STONE!!
By saying what you just did.... do you think that makes you look like the good guy I know you are?? Sorry, pal.... but, you are WAY off base! ....Neil
 
SHOPPING is one thing.

COMMITTING is different.

This guy made a committment. If he wanted to keep shopping he should not have told Neil to take it off the net. Not only did he commit to the deal over e-mail but he even arranged for a face to face meeting to complete the transaction.

In the end it's part of the game and there's not much you can do about it.....but I don't think Neil is wrong for expressing his frustration......I guess it comes down to the fact that I don't casually give my word to make a conversation easier....my word IS my bond and I take it seriously. This guy apparently did not take giving his word as seriously as I know many here do. Had I made a committment like he did and found another better deal I would likely follow through with both and sell the 1st animal for what I paid and move on with life.

My .02

Peace - Tom Chambers
TC Reptile
 
It appears that in this case Neil decided not to follow his own rules (which I happened to agree with), and I quote:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">NO deposits
NO holding items
NO down payments
NO weekly/monthly payments
NO personal checks
NO MO's sent snail-mail

NO money right then and there.... NO animal.... PERIOD!

I've been in sales my whole adult life (I'm 50).... the BEST way to MAKE SURE you end up with ulcers and migraines, is to ACCEPT one of the "NO's" listed above!</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

In this case it was his decision to trust this person who finally decided not to buy from him.

Several people have backed on deals they assured me they were going to follow-through. I have never questioned their integrity, morals or ethics because of that. They just simply changed their minds.

How does that differ from a person that sends a seller a money order, the money order arrives a day late, the seller sells the snake to a second party and then returns the money order to the first buyer?

Regards
 
I have to jump in on this one.  I can see where Neil is coming from.  I too have been in his shoes and then you get an email/phone call 10 minutes, 1 day, 1 week later and they back out for WHATEVER reason.  More or less, it sucks.
On the other hand, yes, I agree people can change their mind.  I PERSONALLY ask ALL I CAN before I decide.  I tell someone (and am doing so as we speak) that I am going to ponder over it for a bit.  WHY?  Because I feel my word IS my word and I do not like to renig on something/someone.  If I say I am going to do something, I do it.  If I say I am going to buy, I buy.
Ritchie has some points, but we all know this is not a car dealership.  If it were, this industry would be ALOT different.  There would be no 48 hour guarantees etc.  If it were the car business, once you buy, IT IS YOURS.  Go ahead and come back to me and say that dealerships will/have taken a car back after you bought it, but the fact remains that there IS a contract when buying a car.  IF they decide to take it back, that is their choice, not their legal obligation.
Just my opinion.
Brian Oakley
 
OK, I see both sides of this debate,

1) Neil trusted this man to complete the deal and he gave his word.

2) People do have the right to change thier minds.


I have been on both sides of this coin, If for some reason I had to back out of a deal I gave a reason to the seller "I found a better animal at 1/2 the price, something came up and I can't afford it right now you get the point things happen.

But Neil, I have a question for you, Have you ever told a dealer/seller "I will take every scarlett king snake you can get, be it 1 or 100, Just bring them to me nobody else". and then when the man showed up with 6 you said "I DON'T WANT THEM NOW".
 
Richie,

I am sorry, in my opinion, you are dead wrong. If you give your word that you will do something, you do it or come to a mutual understanding to make things right. Regardless of how much extra money you could save. It's your WORD. What is your word worth? Doing the right thing just doesn't work part of the time. Doing the right thing works all the time. Please don't respond any more to this post because you are really making yourself look bad.  From what I've read on your posts, I don't believe you to be bad. But I think you're are confused on right and wrong. I mean you no harm, but think about it. What is your word worth? You can't take that money with you! But going back on your word could haunt your for eternity.:)
 
Well, this is how I look at it. Ritchie has some valid points, but seems theirs two different rules. You said as a buyer you have the option to change your mind, EVEN after you gave your word and the seller was nice enough to remove his ads and turn down other offers. But you as a "seller" had a auction and sold a snake for $370. You had a offer over $400 and turned it down because you gave your word. This is where I disagree. If it's o.k. for a "buyer" back out of a agreement because he can save money, then it should be equally as fair for a "seller" to back out on a customer because he got a higher offer.

Using your example. If I had a Albino Boa for sale for $1,000 and you or anyone else decided to buy it. You put the money together, run around to get payment out (if not Paypaled) and lose out on another snake of your interest because you chose to deal with me. Then, I get a offer for $1,500 (lets just say for kicks and giggles another cutomer really needed that certain animal I had for sale and offered more to get it. Ive had it happen), AFTER I tell you to send me your cash. I take that offer and back out on our agreement, even though you already had the payment sealed and ready to send or better yet just dropped it off in the mail. Now, if I did that, I could bet anything that you'd eventually see my name on the BOI as a bad dealer.

My word is my bond and until recently I looked at my customers as their word is their bond as well. I just dont agree on the two different sets of rules. This no bash on you Ritchie and every customer or seller has the right to change their mind, but at least let the person know that you want to shop around first.

Joe Dembinski
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ritchie.... do you understand that with the reply you just gave, you are basically telling us that YOUR WORD MEANS NOTHING</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Neil, only question my ethics if you are squeaky clean <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> (just a little advice...hint hint wink wink)


And what about the quote below
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But Neil, I have a question for you, Have you ever told a dealer/seller "I will take every scarlett king snake you can get, be it 1 or 100, Just bring them to me nobody else". and then when the man showed up with 6 you said "I DON'T WANT THEM NOW".</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I understand with the reply I gave....
That as a seller my customers will know my word is my bond.
My customers will know that they can change their minds as long as they don't make a hobby of it...their names won't appear on the BOI

Joe it is not really a double standard.  Because I do expect my customers to keep their word.  But I do give them a little leway.

In the end I just try to cater to the customer....why?
because I do not have the luxury of choosing my customers.
Without customers...who would buy my stuff?
As a buyer I have the luxury of buying from whomever I want.


</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Please don't respond any more to this post because you are really making yourself look bad. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Listen folks.  I am both a buyer and a seller.  So let me say again.
As a buyer - I can buy from whomever I want.  If I got the cash and you got the snake...you are probably gonna sell to me.
As a seller -  I expect them to also hold true to their word...But I also have to give my customers leway.  I do not have the luxury of selling what I want when I want and for how much I want.
 
Sorry, Ritchie.... not even close! Your word is your word.... period! It's not a gray area?.... it's black and white! You're either true to your word, or you're not.... If someone tells me, yeah, I THINK I'll take it.... absolutely, he has the right to change his mind.... but, when someone says, It's SOLD, Take it off-line, I'll be in Saturday to pick it up, don't sell it!.... I expect him to follow through.... no ifs, ands, or buts....
As far as Scarlett Kings go.... in the last month, I have had no less than 3 people asking me to get them a Scarlett King.... I even went so far as to buy the one that was owned by one of my part-time clean-up guys.... it was sold in five minutes! If anybody came into my store with ANY Scarletts, I would have bought them all.... I'll STILL buy them! Depending on price, of course....
....Neil
 
Richie,

Well said !

The best thing about this post is being reassured that most people will stand behind their word. Very well said everybody.
Hope every one has a safe weekend.  



GiG
 
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