Info MIKE FEZDEN

[Snake-Queen]

One of the problems about claims using mtDNA (aka mitochondrial DNA) is that it only shows if the mother is an alterna (assuming of course that this is an accurate claim) as mtDNA is only passed from the mother to the offspring. Males do not contribute mtDNA at all to their offspring so any claims of proof that it is pure something based on mtDNA is pretty much bunk and we have to take an recommendations for this as proof of "purity" to be without any value.

some comments

Ed

Thank you, Ed. I didn't realize that mtDNA was mitochondrial DNA.

Bob, your post is unwarranted & appears vindictive and childish.

Only a true DNA test will show the complete genetic makeup of the animal.

If you think the snakes are a hybrid, buy one and test it yourself, otherwise drop it.

Just because you've never seen one in the wild, doesn't mean they don't exist. You are not all knowing and all seeing.

Your racist FB rant hasn't helped you in any way. It was disgusting and I need a shower after reading it.

 

[kingpinreptiles]

Bob,
I hope you know that in the field of selling leucistic alterna I am in the very last place... Chris produces them, a few others in CA produce them, Stu produces them and at least 1 person in Europe produces at least a handful of them a year. I buy and resell. To this day I sold 3 animals from the leucistic project, a young adult male was traded away, and Stu bought a leu and het pair of yearlings. He then went and bought more from Chris. Now, Stu seems to really dig alterna, has a lot of localities of them hes working with, and looks like he can go find them as well. So since youre an expert because you find them, lets say Stu is an expert too.. Why would Stu, this hardcore alterna guy, invest so much in these if he didnt think they were pure? Plus the demand for them isnt super high, realistically theyll sell much better at $500 each in a few years. But nobody has questioned their purity to the extent you have, because youre holding a grudge and I see no reason other than jealousy.

And your idea that the project was made from a leucistic mexican milk is incredibly stupid, because the first ever leucistic milk morph would market much better than a leucistic gray banded.

Done.

 

[Lucille]

Disgusting racist FB rant there. Truly a person to be avoided at all costs!

I agree. It was revolting. As was his attempt to backpedal when caught.

 

[EdwardK]

Thank you, Ed. I didn't realize that mtDNA was mitochondrial DNA.

I should note that mDNA (from the OP's first post) is the same as mtDNA so his claims of genetic testing verifying that the snake is or isn't pure still doesn't have any legs on which to stand.

Only a true DNA test will show the complete genetic makeup of the animal.

Point of clarification here, mtDNA analysis is a true DNA test, the problem is that it doesn't provide the proof the OP claims it does. mtDNA has been used in looking for speciation but it cannot be used in the manner that the OP is claiming as I noted above as mtDNA is only passed down via the female parent. So unless the snake was a direct descendant of a female hybrid would you detect that in the mtDNA and in fact relying on the mtDNA as proof of purity can allow hybrids to pass unnoticed in the breeding programs.
Nuclear DNA (nDNA) (which includes micro and mini sataellite DNA) are going to be the best bet to demonstrate "purity" but it will still require a larger sample size to account for genetic variation (particularly where there are overlaps in sequences that are the same in other relatively closely related species).

some comments

Ed

 

[EdwardK]

Point of clarification here, mtDNA analysis is a true DNA test, the problem is that it doesn't provide the proof the OP claims it does. mtDNA has been used in looking for speciation but it cannot be used in the manner that the OP is claiming as I noted above as mtDNA is only passed down via the female parent. So unless the snake was a direct descendant of a female hybrid would you detect that in the mtDNA and in fact relying on the mtDNA as proof of purity can allow hybrids to pass unnoticed in the breeding programs.
Nuclear DNA (nDNA) (which includes micro and mini sataellite DNA) are going to be the best bet to demonstrate "purity" but it will still require a larger sample size to account for genetic variation (particularly where there are overlaps in sequences that are the same in other relatively closely related species).

If anyone wants to geek out on an example of why mtDNA isn't ideal for this purpose see

Shaw, Kerry L. "Conflict between nuclear and mitochondrial DNA phylogenies of a recent species radiation: what mtDNA reveals and conceals about modes of speciation in Hawaiian crickets." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 99.25 (2002): 16122-16127.

http://www.sbs.utexas.edu/bio386/Readings/Literature/Speciation/Shaw.PNAS.99.16122.specia.pdf

some comments

Ed

 

[Snake-Queen]

Point of clarification here, mtDNA analysis is a true DNA test, the problem is that it doesn't provide the proof the OP claims it does. mtDNA has been used in looking for speciation but it cannot be used in the manner that the OP is claiming as I noted above as mtDNA is only passed down via the female parent. So unless the snake was a direct descendant of a female hybrid would you detect that in the mtDNA and in fact relying on the mtDNA as proof of purity can allow hybrids to pass unnoticed in the breeding programs.
Nuclear DNA (nDNA) (which includes micro and mini sataellite DNA) are going to be the best bet to demonstrate "purity" but it will still require a larger sample size to account for genetic variation (particularly where there are overlaps in sequences that are the same in other relatively closely related species).

some comments

Ed

nDNA is what I meant as a true DNA test ... it's what most people think of when a DNA test is mentioned.

What Ed is saying is the mother could be pure & the father a hybrid, but all babies would still show pure in a mtDNA test. You're only getting half a picture when using mtDNA.

 

[sabledog]

Robert Sloan - "I'll be at the show in Segiun on March 4-5 if you grow a set or can turn loose of your mammas titties long enough bitch"

Turn loose of your mamma's titties long enough. Internet gem.

 

[Chris Kennard]

Katie. I hope you have no aspirations of being an aspiring part of the reptile community any time soon. Grow up.

 

[sabledog]

For quoting something Robert said? Sorry, thought it was just adding further proof of his ridiculousness.

 

[Alterna Ranch]

Not vindictive

My intent has nothing to do with being vindictive Snake Queen(Oh, and take a shower cause you stink), so your post is irrelevant. These are hybrids. And because I have collected over 850 alterna in the wild and have 328 of them still in my collection with their F1 offspring should make me an expert on alterna and the culture of collecting keeping wild caught alterna alive, breeding them and hatching and raising them. If that does not make me an expert, please tell me in your opinion who is an expert in alterna because I'd love to know anyone that has accomplished what I have with alterna since 1969....maybe Earl Turner, Lee Box, Bob Applegate, etc.,...but not one of them have the numbers or success I've had. Aside from the fact that I also have 5 college degrees.

I hope the admins issue warning points for that post by sabledog for the profanity cause I would not have posted that, but will say it to your face cause I will never say anything on the net I will not say to your face - try me anytime you want.

And Lucille -shut up you know nothing of what you are posting. I never backpedal so get your facts straight before you open your pie hole!

As for the post on my post about John Wiley Price - I'll stand by it and I did say it to his face. I entered a Karate Competition and lined up next to him so we would be in a match together - It was my intent to knock him out after slapping him around for 2 minutes or so to make him look stupid. He was warned by someone and dropped out of the competition. Look him up - if you think I'm bad, you'll puke when you read what this guy has done in Dallas.

And if you think DNA of any kind is garbage, then please contact Troy Hibbits and ask him about the dark alterna female he collected in the rain right in front of us in June of 2004. He had Rob run DNA on it and it turned out one of the parents was annulata - my memory tells me he said it was the male parent of his wild caught alterna, but i'm not certain of that. I'm sure several of you on here know Troy and his honesty. As for the leucy annulata, that was just a guess on my part what it could be. It is a FACT, which most of you here do not seem to buy into - FACTS - that annulata breed with alterna in the wild. You can ask Troy or Earl Turner, and I've collected what looked like a wild hybrid myself on Juno Rd. As such, I'm not stupid enough to pay that type of insane price for a snake I know to be a hybrid. It would be very easy to prove with nothing more then a shed skin and the testing is FREE. So Mikey, send me a shed off of your "leucy" alterna and I'll send it to Rob and then post the results. Every time I send a resolution, you find another excuse NOT to prove them out. Why hasn't anyone else ever done this? MONEY - that's why. So you can continue to rip off the ignorant public with a hybrid snake!

Really there is no pint to continuing to beat a dead horse on this issue. And the issue has never been a post I sent to some net coward that messaged me on FB, then blocked me and never confronted me at any reptile shows. It is also not the issue that I posted anything somewhere else about John Wiley Price - it is just another example of losers on here with no other argument to make, so bad mouth me for other things not remotely related to this issue.

In the end, I will post and tell as many people as I can that Leucistic alterna are hybrid garbage snakes - unless Mike or Stu or Baubel send me a shed off a leucistic and let me test it. If it turns out to be pure - I'll eat as much crow as needed and will post it here for all to see. Not one of these hacksters will send me a shed cause they too know this snake is garbage!

 

[kingpinreptiles]

Sorry Bob, your issue doesnt concern me, youre not a paying customer, youre a scammer with a grudge because I exposed you. My rep > your rep. Call me when you catch over 1000 alterna maybe Ill take you seriously then.

 

[Lucille]

As for the post on my post about John Wiley Price - I'll stand by it

Well then, it's only fair that he get to see it...Whatever your political opinion, I think your posting was inappropriate, but I'll let him decide that.

 

[Alterna Ranch]

1000 alterna

You know anyone Mikey that has ever collected 1000 alterna? You ever collected ONE? Doubt it. And I'm due to hit 1K in 2020 or 2021 if my success continues. Already got 12 this year and it's not even May! I also have alterna from every known type locale, as well as, a few from some oddball areas, and ALL of my alterna are type locale specific - no generics in my herd! I even got alterna from Saltillo, MX off MX 57! Know anyone with those? Didn't think so pal. Oh, and John Wiley Price did see it cause unlike most of you net cowards - I said it to his face. And my posting to and about John Wiley Price was not posted here by me, and I would not have posted that here, but by a loser with no other info to offer up about the topic at hand.

 

[Vithaxton]

When you see a picture of some gorgeous snakes and click on the post and realize it's a hate post lol #disappointed


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Alterna Ranch]

Well suck it up buttercup....

I did not post that here and would not ave posted it here Vithaxton....And if your implication was that my post was racist...well it was not and aimed only at the low life rapist Dallas County Commissioner - John Wiley Price. So snowflake - get a life and try to figure out what you are talking about before you open your purddy mouth!

 

[Robert Walker]

Admittedly disappointed to learn this was a recycled photo. I previously had thought, "Oh, must be a special occasion for someone to strip down for a BOI post?".

 

[EdwardK]

My intent has nothing to do with being vindictive Snake Queen(Oh, and take a shower cause you stink), so your post is irrelevant. These are hybrids. And because I have collected over 850 alterna in the wild and have 328 of them still in my collection with their F1 offspring should make me an expert on alterna

Actually this doesn't automatically convey any degree of expertise as the bar of proof is being subjectively set by you ... in fact this is often known as "subjective validation" or "personal validation effect". Would eating 100 cakes make a person an expert on what makes up a cake? Does changing 100 tires on a Ford pickup automatically convey the expertise to change the tires on Caterpillar 797B? Do you see the fallacy on your claims here?

And if you think DNA of any kind is garbage, then please contact Troy Hibbits and ask him about the dark alterna female he collected in the rain right in front of us in June of 2004. He had Rob run DNA on it and it turned out one of the parents was annulata - my memory tells me he said it was the male parent of his wild caught alterna,

This is exactly why your claim of being an expert on alterna can be subject to extreme suspicion and it is clear that none of the "5 degrees" is in a biological based science. It is physically impossible to tell that the male was the hybrid when testing mtDNA as mtDNA only originates with the mother (and the grandmother before the mother on back ad naseum). It never originates with the male (as it is not included at all in the sperm as it is it's own organelle with its own separate DNA). So you cannot test a snake and determine if the father was a hybrid...

but i'm not certain of that. I'm sure several of you on here know Troy and his honesty.

This is a redirection as his word/work isn't under scrutiny, just your claims and how they are clearly incorrect and violate a whole lot of science that is considered pretty much a law.

As for the leucy annulata, that was just a guess on my part what it could be. It is a FACT, which most of you here do not seem to buy into - FACTS - that annulata breed with alterna in the wild. You can ask Troy or Earl Turner, and I've collected what looked like a wild hybrid myself on Juno Rd.

You do realize that you cannot claim it is a fact if it is your opinion? Opinions may be based on facts but they are not facts themselves, your attempting to hide your opinion as fact which is a pretty strong indication of deception on your part.

As such, I'm not stupid enough to pay that type of insane price for a snake I know to be a hybrid. It would be very easy to prove with nothing more then a shed skin and the testing is FREE.

Is it fact or opinion? It can't be both. See the rebuttal above, and as for proof of it being a hybrid, testing mtDNA does not guarantee that unless one of the direct female ancestors (not on the paternal chain of ancestors) was an annulata as mtDNA is only passed down through the females so these claims on mtDNA are more than sketchy and if that is the proof your using to support your collection is free of hybrids then your not doing yourself any favors here. Do not conflate unless you actually know what your talking about.

So Mikey, send me a shed off of your "leucy" alterna and I'll send it to Rob and then post the results. Every time I send a resolution, you find another excuse NOT to prove them out. Why hasn't anyone else ever done this? MONEY - that's why. So you can continue to rip off the ignorant public with a hybrid snake!

See above, and that doesn't provide any proof.

Really there is no pint to continuing to beat a dead horse on this issue.

Says the man who has been repeatedly demonstrating their ignorance on the topic by beating it into the ground and attempting to shut up opposing opinions by browbeating and bullying ...


some comments

Ed

 

[Snakesatsunset]

I know someone who has collected 1027 alterna and produces 300 a year....so your second place sloan

 

[Vithaxton]

I did not post that here and would not ave posted it here Vithaxton....And if your implication was that my post was racist...well it was not and aimed only at the low life rapist Dallas County Commissioner - John Wiley Price. So snowflake - get a life and try to figure out what you are talking about before you open your purddy mouth!

Actually my life is quite busy lol I'm studying to be a marine biologist and zoologist right now and I have a trip to Pompeii coming up for a once in a life time archeological dig! I also tag sharks for osearch as well which is one of my passions but I always have time for my snake hobby! My ball pythons are my passion as well! As for forums I always use Tapatalk because it's an app and I like it better than the website. It only shows pictures on a post so naturally when I saw some gorgeous pictures of snakes I clicked it. I was not however prepared for such negative comments and racism. Usually the reptile community is amazing and wonderful! But wow! I was shocked by your use of language and immaturity! If I was showing someone that was not use to reptiles or a beginner reptile owner I would be extremely embarrassed. I wouldn't want her or him to think all reptile owners are like that. I do apologize since I seemed to deeply offend you lol I would recommend however that you conduct yourself in a more mature and professional manner as a snake owner and seller.

This is definitely an example of something that I would edit or delete to start looking like a more professional seller or keeper in general. Just a suggestion. Although you may be offended by it. I'm not trying to attack you but help you. In the long run it will make you look much better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Alterna Ranch]

DNA testing

It always amazes me the amount of really stupid people on this site - like - er....um....Ed for example. No you cannot tell the father from mtDNA but you can do genomic DNA. It tests both sides mother and father. And if you do a relatedness score between shed samples and it comes out 10% relatedness or less it indicates impurity. No - I do not have a Biology Degree, but why is it you people seem to think a person with a biology degree is the ONLY person qualified to be an expert at anything? It is because you are a bunch of uneducated simpletons with no biology degree! I happen to have 2 Assoc. degrees, a BA, a BS and a Masters and am currently working on my PhD in Law. I also have 18 hours of Masters level biology which allows me to teach biology at a Junior College level. I'm also not interested in looking better for libtards like you Vithaxton! And aren't you just the jet setting little wanna-be. I hope you're successful, but I've seen and done more in my life then most of the people on this post - Little Mikey Fezden for example who claims leucistic alterna are pure but has NEVER collected one. Or Ed, how many have you collected? None I bet. Most of you are too broke, too stuck in a 40 hour a week dead end job, with a fat wife and a couple of snot nosed kids and probably living in a house you can just barely afford with sheets over the windows cause you cannot afford mini blinds and curtains - and if you even get to go reptile collecting somewhere other then your back yard, it might be for a week if your wife LETS you go. I do not have those issues cause I have had my own business since 1990 and go to work in my home whenever I want to. I have a house in Del Rio, Dallas and Mexico and Val Verde County is in my back yard. I got Indigos under my house in both Del Rio and in Tamaulipas, Mexico. Alterna within a ten minute drive from my front door. I collect 180 plus nights a year and spend several months in Mexico collecting on a permit as well. My wife - who is 18 years younger then me - also collects reptiles and has Mexico permits. If I never sold another reptile, I'd still have a better life then any of you wanna-bes on the post. And so WHO has collected 1027 alterna and hatches 300 a year? Post the name or shut up Snakesatsunset - you are a liar. Also, I never claimed to be first in anything - only the number I've collected so far and I'm already sitting on 250 alterna eggs with about 32 females to go, so suck it up buttercup. I cannot even breed all of the alterna I have in my collection because if I did, I could not get rid of all of them. And all of mine go to Germany every year. And if you post it is John Hollister - well if you believe that I got a xanthic silver patternless pibald alterna for you pal! I'm not claiming anything is a FACT, but my opinion after collecting more alterna then anyone known(post the name) - is that they are hybrids. They came from "generic" parents cause Mikey said so, so there is NO basis in fact that they are pure alterna. Also the genomic testing and relatedness would prove it ED, so you are not the savior of my desire to test them that you think you are. SEND ME A SHED and I'll include sheds from several wild collected alterna from my collection and we will see. As I said - crow is best served cold and I'll eat plenty if they prove out to be pure. They will not because none of these reptile hacksters will EVER send me a shed.