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MIKE SHIVER - Rip OFF!  Do NOt DEAL!

F

fantasy

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I did a Trade with MIKE Shiver @ Mike's Motley's  a year and half ago.  I traded some yearling blizzards and others on a cash deal and a TRADE!  I got his money, but he has never fullfilled his end of the Bargin!  He was suppose to give me a pair of Hypo Motley Corns.  This was  last year.  He produced some, but I never got any.  he says he produced 20 of them this year.  Said he would ship them out. Never shipped them.  Now I cannot get ahold of him.  It has been an ongoing chase on my part to try to get him to ship these guys to me and never will.   Looks like I'm getting the SHAFT!!!!!!!  

BUYER BE WARE!! and do not do any trades with this man unless you get everything upfront.

Mike if your out there...  Just ship me my pair of @$@% snakes so we can get this deal over with.

Matt Salyer
www.fantasyreptiles.com
 
hm...I've done a couple of deals (buying, not trading) with Mike and haven't had any issues at all. I was very pleased with the animals I got and Mike was always very pleasant with me.

I know Mike had some problems earlier this year which could be part of the reason he is hard to get a hold of, but who knows.
 
I have sold Mike a number of animals over the past few years... didn't have any problems with him at all... seems like a stand up guy... I know he moved recently, perhaps that delayed your transaction?
 
Matt, I have never had trouble with Mike so I am sure that there is a good reason for the delay. He has always done right by me.
 
I've only dealt with Mike Shiver of Mike's Motleys one time, and it didn't go as smoothly as my reptile purchases usually do.  The evening of the day he was supposed to have shipped, I emailed him to ask him if he had... his response was no, he had forgotten that no one would be home to give the packages to the FedEx/UPS man that day.  (I forget which shipper he used, but could look it up if necessary...)  Anyway, he did ship the day after, and I did get my snake, but if I'd been one of those people that had to take days off in order to wait for shipments instead of being able to have them sent to my work...

So, while I got my snake (and he's doing quite well), the transaction didn't go 100% smoothly.

Kat Hall
 
I've known Mike for a number of years, but all of our dealings have been at shows we have both been vendors at.  He has always struck me as a very honest guy, and seems to be more interested in this as a hobby than as a business venture, so perhaps there is some personal situation that has taken place that has occupied most of his time and attention lately.  I did hear a while back that he was greatly thinning out his collection, so perhaps there is something going on that is necessarily putting the reptile sales/trades in the background.  This sort of thing does happen to a lot of us every now and again.

Matt - what effforts have you made to contact him?  I know he was at the Tampa show and is scheduled to be at the Orlando show next month, so certainly the promoters of those shows will have current contact information for him.

When you say "Now I cannot get ahold of him.", what does that mean?  Are both his email address and phone number no longer working?

Quite frankly, from the details you have relayed here, I believe labeling Mike as a 'rip off' is perhaps a bit premature and probably overly harsh, based on what I see.  From what I can read into this, the only real problem I see is that you just can't reach him right now and are feeling panicky about it.

IMHO, of course.
 
I think that panicky is something you might feel a week or two after not getting what you are supposed to.  Matt said it has been a year and a half.  Matt, what reasons did Mike give for not shipping?  How often did you try to get Mike to honor his part of the deal, and how long into this did you lose the ability to contact him?

As far as the "rip-off" label being premature, it has, appearently, been well over a year.  Also, Mike was supposed to have produced some of what he promised Matt, and if he did, there is no reason why Matt shouldn't have recieved his share.  Also, the deal was not yet closed, and Mike should have made sure that Matt had a means of getting in touch with him.  And, as has been pointed out numerous times before on this board, what took place was a business transaction, regardless of whether it is a hobby or a business to Mike.  These transactions should be taken care of regardless of personal problems, and certainly should be taken care of within a year and a half.  
Rich, I think your observation that the real problem is Matt feeling panicky is biased simply because you know and like Mike.  I don't know Matt or Mike, but if anything, I think that Matt waited too long to post this.
 
I used to breed corns a couple years ago. I did a couple trades with Mike. My experience with Mike is that he's an honest person and I would recommend him to anyone interested in Corn Snakes.

Frank
 
Blah...Blah....Blah...  The main thing I see people barking about in here is the time frame.  This is a business dealing with animals.  Some years they don't produce, don't turn out as nice as you wanted, end up being all males or whatever..

MIKE is a GOOD GUY!!!

If you're posting he stole your money that's one thing but call him up or wait to hear from Mike and he'll take care of it.

Otherwise get out of the snake hobby if you can'y handle waiting a year and a half for somebody to produce an animal or take care of the deal.

Sorry this post ended up in here Mike.  Don't try to speak up for yourself or you'll get slammed and they'll twist your words all over.  Just take care of the deal, everybody knows you're a good guy!

Adam Block
 
Though I think I've emailed him once or twice, I've never done business with him, but as far as I have been able to see from others' dealings with him, Mike is a good guy that may be having some difficulty which precludes him from shipping as quickly as he would otherwise like.  He certainly has some great looking animals on his website, and I would probably do business with him, given the oppotunity to do so.

However, when someone makes a statement in Mike's defense like this one:

"Otherwise get out of the snake hobby if you can'y handle waiting a year and a half for somebody to produce an animal or take care of the deal."

All I can say is WOW!  Get out of the business/hobby if you're not willing to wait a year and half for someone to close a deal?!?!?  Are you serious here Adam?  Or, is this another example of your wit?  For crying out loud, I would never wait a year and a half on someone to complete a trade unless there was some very serious reason as to why the delay was ocurring, and I would have to KNOW the person before even that would be good enough.

Seriously, Adam, I'm certain you have wonderful animals, and I would think that some great corn hatchlings could be purchased from you.  However, since you keep coming on here in defense of slow responses to customers, I'd be afraid to buy hatchlings from you.  They might be too old to breed by the time I got them!!!

<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
 
In regards to all the replies.  

Mike has now e-mailed me and says he will ship them to me on a specific date. I will let all know when I get them and how they turn out.

Matt Salyer
 
I have bought from Mike twice this year and everything has went smooth. He asnwered my emails very quick and seems to be a stand up guy I would not hesitate to buy from him again  Just my 2 cents
 
Thanks everyone for putting in a good word for me.Matt will get his snakes dont worry.The reason he didnt get any last year was because there was any females from this particular breeding.There has not been one single snake sold from this clutch.I told him last year that they hatch out small from this female and can sometimes be hard to get started.I didnt know I had to let him know my every move on this but I guess I needed to.I did tell him I was going to ship them but got delayed.I have now fed the snakes 8-9 times just to get a little size on them before sending them to him.If I would have sent them as fresh hatchlings he would have probably complained about how small they were.I had a clutch from this same line that were 26 snakes and only 2 ate.I can understand him being a little impetience.I have 3 kids and work a full time job so I do the best I can to treat everyone right when buying from me.I am sure I have done things in the past to piss people off but it was not my intention to do so.We went through a ch 7 bankruptcy last year and things have changed dramatically for me once we lost our home.I was getting out completely but my love of corns and having some changed my mind.I am in the process of rebuilding the corn collection and only want to supply people with the best.I think sometimes people should know the entire story before being judgmental.
 
That's great, I look forward to reading Matt's post about everything being on the level.  BTW,  full name, or the post will be erased.   <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
 
Mike,

I do appologize for being a bit extreme saying you "ripped me off", but I do not have my snakes yet. You still have not given me a date you will be shipping, and I don't like playing games just to get my animals.

----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: Message about: Looking ot trade these for adult corns.Take a look!


Once you have removed the negaitive post about me then I will give you a ship date.

Mike

I feel the way I do and thats not going to change. and Yes, I probably won't do business with you again. You have poor customer service.

Matt Salyer
 
.</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I was getting out completely but my love of corns and having some changed my mind.I am in the process of rebuilding the corn collection and only want to supply people with the best.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I was wondering just what was up in that reguard, after I saw your post looking for cornsnake adults... now I know.


Kat Hall
 
All I have to say is Mike is one AWESOME person in the herp trade. I have purchased from him and he ROCKS in my mind! He has some GREAT animals and some awesome corn morphs. I would not hesitate to do business with him EVER!

I do not think he deserves a negitive post at all. And I would recommend him to anyone!

Just my 2 cents. He is one of the good guys.
<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Rick Steward/Ricks Reptiles
 
MIKE, Matt lacks the ability to remove this thread.  I find your condition on fulfilling the deal being the removal of this thread to be quite distasteful.  You would have done better for yourself if you had simply fulfilled your end of the deal.  As is, it looks like you are going to act like so many other bad guys, but your best bet is still to just fulfill your end of the deal.  Many have siad that it is how you react in a stressful situation, such as this one, that really determines peoples opinion of you.  When Matt posted that you emailed him and were going to set things straight, I thought you were going to be a stand up guy and take care of your business.  If this had been the case, I would not have had any reservations about doing business with you.   Giving you the benefit of the doubt, and after reading the other posts about you, perhaps you have never been in this situation before.  I will assume that is why you issued the ultimatum to Matt.  I suggest that you withdraw your ultimatum and simply send him his snakes.  Then, when all is taken care of, post here, I'm sure that Matt will also, and say that all has been taken care of, and this can turn into a post ending with you taking care of business and being honest, in short, a stand up guy.

Good luck to both of you, and I still look forward to reading about the resolution of this.
 
Do not feel bad. Mike has owed me a ghost stripe female corn for two years now. When asked about it he said he had a bad year in 2000. A friend purchased two pair from him in Daytona that year. I hope that when he has a good year he sends me one. I try to treat people in a fare way. Just wish others would do the same.

Thanks  Jim Stelpflug
 
Sorry to hear about that Jim.  Last year at Daytona he sure had a few of them!  I opted to purchase from Mike Falcon instead however Mike S. had them as well.  I don't know the situation of his sales but they were there if it helps.

Good luck all,
Adam Block

PS I've never heard a bad thing or had a bad word myself with Mike.  He's always been a good guy in my eyes.  Uffern never has anything positive to say so don't worry about him.  If I had a dollar for every person he wouldn't do business with I wouldn't need any more business.

As for your not shipping till the post is removed.  If somebody jumps the gun and post you are or may be a bad guy they're taking a chance.  The damage is done so where's the motivation at that point to provide customer service, Ship quickly or answer emails?

I've learned not to be pulled into the trap on here, make your post say you peace and don't respond to anything people ask or say.  That's what the people that were posting about me do so I've learned from the best right?

That's all have fun,
Adam Block
 
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