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Milk x King hybirds?

GreenTreePython13

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Alright so I know that crossing ssp and localities is a HUGE no no for boas, but how do people view it for Kings and Milks? I've seen different king crosses and milk crosses and king x milk crosses on the classifieds and they seem to be more common than the boa ones because I'm assuming it's less taboo? Anyone have any comments?
 
The true defintion of hybrids stands as:

Hellacious
Yet
Belligerant
" Reasoning "
Involving
Destroying
Snakes

It is basically both biological perversion and hypocrisy, to say the least.
 
Alright so I know that crossing ssp and localities is a HUGE no no for boas, but how do people view it for Kings and Milks? I've seen different king crosses and milk crosses and king x milk crosses on the classifieds and they seem to be more common than the boa ones because I'm assuming it's less taboo? Anyone have any comments?

First off, there is a very vocal crowd out there against hybrids of any kind. I think the reason why you don't see many crosses with Rosy boas is because you can't really make anything too much out of the ordinary because most are basically striped. Pattern has a lot to do with making a very unique looking hybrid, that's why I think Cal kings are used often in these crosses. There are people out there willing to pay big bucks for these king X milk snake crosses and that's why its done. If there is a market, its going to be filled. There are a lot of people against hybrids, but there's still enough people out there that are all for them and willing to pay for them. That's what keeps the market going. I'm a field herper, so I'm into the locality stuff.
 
Hybrids are a personal choice. I have no issue with them, as long as they are clearly identified ... I prefer pure blood but also enjoy some hybrids & own both : )
 
Hybrids are a personal choice. I have no issue with them, as long as they are clearly identified ... I prefer pure blood but also enjoy some hybrids & own both : )

Well, the fact is........ once man-made crosses/hybrids leave the vendor's table, the snakes, and whatever else all of of their offspring, and their offspring's offspring are ever bred with and then produce are usually ALWAYS sold as whatever they tend to more closely "represent" at any given time. The fact that I continually see COUNTLESS crosses in this hobby that are grossly mislabeled all the time is absolute proof that this is how the dynamics of the hobby actually works.

Representing certain crosses "honestly" only really goes as far as the first buyer at best most of the time. Quite often these first buyer's can't even remember what they were told by the original breeder/seller as to their true subspecific lineage. So then of course the buyer's go on to breed these to other snakes, and as to exactly what specific types is anyone's guess. It certainly isn't usually to another crossed snake with the very same specific crossed lineage the other snake had he/she intends to breed it with. Of course not, the crosses are usually bred to a a genuine type of snake in the hobby that is fairly similar to the cross, which in turn only make more man-made mutt snakes that further dilute the genetics of the genuine form it was just bred to.

I know all this to be an absolute fact from being in this snake hobby for 44 years and owning countless thousands of different types of snakes, as well as breeding many of them for well over 25 years.

These are entirely different times now for a multitude of different reasons. I can go on any classified section of any forum, or to almost any pet shop in the nation and usually identify all sorts of stuff there that has crossed lineage in it. Man-made crosses and hybrids greatly dilute many of the genuine bloodlines that are still out there, and only gets worse every single breeding year to be honest.

At the Daytona Expo this past weekend it was certainly no different either. One of the most respected old-timers in this entire hobby/industry had a deli cup on his table, and I said...."uhhh, what's the story on this thing? as I snickered". I told him there was absolutely no way that it was what he had on the label. I then pointed out all the individual characteristics to him that made me say this in the first place. I said, .."this looks like a hybrid that "so-and-so" would produce". He immediately started cracking up and told me that was EXACTLY who he got it from"...LOL!

My point being, if this extremely well-known and experienced, and very respected old-timer in this hobby was fooled by just this one snake(and also it's parents at his table in a display case), just imagine what would happen to all the countless thousands of not very experienced, unsuspecting people that would buy it as exactly what it was marked as. And of course go onto produce folds more genetic mutt snakes that would themselves produce folds more into the hobby to be bought up and further bred........................

Another guy I know there at Daytona had amel "so-and-so's" for sale, and there is no such thing as amels of that species in the hobby..LOL!. The albino gene was basically "stolen" from another similar snake that has been in the hobby for many years, then back-bred to more of the "target" species until they "look more genuine". These are just two instances here I am stating that I saw from just several days ago, but I could go on and on forever with these similar stories of gross misrepresentation. I see this on a very steady basis every single day of the year....365 days of the year.

Anyway, I am about as opposed to producing man-made crosses on purpose as you could get, and I also have many legitimate reasons for this opinion...:yesnod:


~Doug
 
Thanks Doug! That was a really good post. I understand completely. Hybrids, personally, I don't have an issue with, but I can't stand when people falsely label them.

Thank you for undestanding some of the very valid points I made there. Yes, and on the other side of the coin, what also happens quite often is that many crosses/hybrids are perpetuated and sold as genuine species/subspecies very un-knowingly because the folks aren't even aware of them being crosses as a matter of fact. If more people knew exactly what they were looking at and could accurately identify most of the snakes in the hobby, it would be a different story, but the vast majority of folks in this hobby know very little about identifying most snakes, especially to the subspecific level. I recently just saw a KNOWN Cal. king x floridana cross labeled as an "axanthic Florida king".........arrrrgh!!!

It is these man-made crosses that are not very blatant, easily distinguishable crosses that are the most harmful to authentic snakes in captive collections. And their crossed percentages can also vary greatly which can make them even more un-discernable to the average eye, let alone to the novice hobbyist that doesn't have much experience at all.

Anyway, I appreciate your being able to understand just a few of these simple reasons they can be so detrimental to many captive collections.

My stance is not that many aren't pretty, or nice looking. It is all about what they "do" later on by the many folds...........




regards, ~Doug
 
Doug, quite talking out of your A$$. hahahahaha Sorry, just trying to liven things up. This looks just like a Cal king but its actually 50% Cal king, 25% Desert king (splendida), and 25% Pueblan Milk snake. There is not one thing I can see that tells me this is not a pure Cal king. Pretty crazy.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236216

attachment.php
 
Ross-Wow you're right.

Doug-Yeah I absolutely CAN'T STAND when people purposely label animals as something they're not just to get more money for it. There is a pet store in my area that I refuse to go to anymore after seeing a blue crayfish being sold as a "miniature electric blue lobster." Yeah right.
 
Doug, quite talking out of your A$$. hahahahaha Sorry, just trying to liven things up. This looks just like a Cal king but its actually 50% Cal king, 25% Desert king (splendida), and 25% Pueblan Milk snake. There is not one thing I can see that tells me this is not a pure Cal king. Pretty crazy.


Geeezus man!,.....my point EXACTLY Ross..LOL!. Thanks for posting that great example of a Cal. king "imposter". That thing would NEVER even raise ONE single eye brow as to it actually being a mixed up multi-mutt!

Gosh, if someone were to ask me what it is, I would also say it is ALL Cal. king.

Just unbelievable bro!!..........ARRRRGH!!!! :angry: :angry:



~Doug
 
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