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Miniature Couperi?

bmwdirtracer

bmwdirtracer

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I don't want to step on anyone's classified ad again....but I've got to ask the couperi lovers here their thoughts on miniature Easterns.

I've felt that my '12 snakes were pretty small....they're both over five feet now, eating like mad, and growing very fast. I expect they'll both be way over six feet by their third birthday.

My '13 snakes, I got a bit younger....and they're both ~ 4 feet , both eating and growing like mad -- both longer than the '12 snakes were at the same age. These 2 will be seven feet by their third birthday

My oldest girl, just acquired a few months ago, is just about seven feet, and she's a seven year old.

But in the classifieds, I'm seeing full adult, six year old snakes for sale, and the girl's just 39 inches, and the boy's just 45"!!! And, like my oldest female, they're well past the "fast growth" of youth.

If we're to keep and breed this rare species, don't we owe it to couperi to allow them their fullest potential?? Isn't it somehow wrong to underfeed a snake so much that it only grows to half its normal size?

Please, feel free to disagree with me. I'm attaching a good study of wild couperi size vs. age
 

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  • Indigo study.pdf
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Yeah, I saw that add also. I think most keepers unfamiliar with indigos are unaware of their nutritional requirements. I feed the heck out of mine until they reach sexual maturity. Then I slow down. Actually, they slow themselves down. My 2011 male is 7+ feet long and has not eaten much since November. I am sure he will eat aggressively come Spring, but he sort of self regulates his input. My females are eating throughout the winter. Even my gravid one. I have a 6' female, 2012, who is gravid. She has always been huge, even for a baby she was big. She weighs about 6 lbs. Now that she is gravid, she only eats small food items. But lists of them!
 
"Lots of them"
Chris, you may want to get on FB and follow Drymarchon Enthusiasts page. Lots of good information and lots of great photos.
 
I thaw too many food animals, every week. But as you know, I have cats, too....and my oldest cat hangs out, begging for chicks, quail, rats and mice. And when the snakes have eaten everything I can entice them to eat, the 20 year old cat gets the rest. Hey, it's good for his old kidneys....all my cats live over 20 years..

I really suck at facebook, although I use it when I have to....

Hey, are you an Orianne Society member?
 
By the way, watch out for quail. I have two snakes, that just plain decided they like quail. The big 7 year female ate a rat and a chick every meal beore she came to me,,,,and for her first three or four meals here....then I fed her a quail. Now, just like my '12 female, all she wants are quail, and I have to wrap rats in quail wings, or stuff in a chick while she's still "chewing"....

Maybe I'll meet you in South Georgia, at an Orianne event?

I'm attaching a picture of an Orianne girl I need to meet....yes, she's too young for me, but I don't know how old the picture is, do I?:censored:
 

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    indigo girl.jpg
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Indigo size

Perhaps that's why people use cm for length........ Instead of feet and inches.... Triple digits get a better response?????.....visual confusion??????....... Olo.....anyone out know of a 5 to 6 foot female on the block????
Bob
2159066420
 
Hi Bob -- your excellent couperi reputation precedes you, I hope I'll get to meet you one day.

I bought John Michel's beautiful girl a couple months ago - she's just short of 7 ft.

I see that a guy named Matt, in Tennessee, is selling a 2012 girl at kingsnake. Of course, she wouldn't be ready for breeding for a while, but maybe Matt's girl would be of the size you're looking for? (My '12 girl is ~ 5 feet, but not for sale) I see that Matt's female is an excellent price, although he wants a Tennessee sale.

Chris
8082831705
 
Thanks....... I've had a few bad months in fact just released from a depression facility........ Had to liquidate my animals....... In a hurry..... I still have an excellent male..... Not my two girls are 17 and 16 years old...... Probably too old to go....... My wife did something with my hold backs that will probably result in our divorce........ But I'm wanting to get back in easterns ..... I had good luck and of course experience with FF&W......... Someday I'll publish that episode how someone who did nothing illegal.....but due to sloppy paperwork .......KEEP YOUR PAPER WORK IN ORDER...... Never know when the knock come......." Your name was implicated by " this guy"........ You know your snakes can be " held"..... While your permits are examined......ehhh.....they may come back with pathogens from the facility........ WHAT A NIGHTMARE"........ Oh the divorce was going to happen this depression episode just pub it on a back burner...... I know I'm rambling but....I feel really blue.......I'm 66 years old..... Think I got enough time to join Facebook?????........ I'll check on the other girl
Thanks for listening(reading)......
Bob
 
Yo......this spring I can take a ride, I'm retired and would have no problem coming down ..... Do a little snaking, little snake talking..... Having fun.....how's the senior citizen females down there???
Bob assetto
21590642
 
Wow, I'm truly sorry to hear that a couperi guy of your long standing reputation went through such a set of experiences.

I'd like to suggest that putting your excellent male with your older females might give you (a) access to those genes, and (b) a joy, when you need it most.

After being blue, you get to shed, and start with a fresh shiny skin.;)

You're just now thinking about your FIRST divorce? Hell, you may have me by just a few years on age, but I've had two divorces. (The second one, I sincerely regret, but life happens)

By all means, I'd be honored to meet you. I leave for work about 11 and 1/2 hrs before I get home. And I live in a tiny house with 5 cats - and 5 couperi in enormous cages. So, I don't do much herping these days, but 6 foot Black Rat snakes are all over around here. (Not as pure black as the northern ones, though)

I don't bring other snakes in the house much, although I borrowed an obsoleta from the wild for long enough to teach my Hawaiian cats to stay away from Snakes.

Hmmmm.....my 7 year, 7 foot gorgeous black female doesn't have a valid boy available right now this winter. She's big enough to eat my 5 foot '12 boy, so I figured I'd give them 'til next year.

Bob, (or Tim?): I believe we would be within all USFWS parameters if we allowed our critters to breed, no money involved? All my animals are permitted by USFWS, and every one of my documents is in order.

Come visit, we'll put your boy with the big girl for a week, and I will call you when she lays eggs, and you can take them and incubate correctly, and then share the offspring with me. I don't currently have the exacting temps I'd want for incubation - next year, I will.

Um, the senior citizen girls here are all yours; I've never had children, so I'm still after the youngster 40 year olds! ;)

By now, we're probably off-topic, huh?

Chris
[email protected]
 
Talking about women is never off topic:thumbsup:.....& this would be # two....... What looked like a HOMERUN.....is rapidly curving foul...... :shootfoot."...stepchildren can be an obstacle to a relationship...anyhow my ill keep shopping and yes....breeding loans are legal.......where are you located geographically???????.....il explain what happened to my holdback subadult indigos while I was being treated ..... My stepdaughter talked my wife into doing something unthinkable...... Before my herp friends found out......broke my heart and for a while my spirit.......
Bob
 
Well, I can tell you that sometimes Robert Bruce maint. feeds his snakes for some time. He will openly tell you this at the shows and such. Im not knocking him, just stating facts. My female I got from Vic Herrick was very well started, I did not like the idea of a year or 2 year old snake from Bruce being so small, at the show, so I didnt get one. IDK, to each their own I guess.
 
In my opinion, maintenance feeding a voracious species like an indigo is not a good idea. I would be concerned it would remain small. But I really do not know this to be a fact. However, why gamble on a under-sized snake? I agree and would buy the one that is well started.
 
I agree, that is why I passed on the offer. I'm not here to bad mouth him, I know he is a respected member of the community and I do know he LOVES the Indigo. I just don't agree with maintenance feeding, at all.
 
I also agree completely --and I own 4 of Robert's snakes. Certainly, they are now catching up to their potentials (2 are '12 snakes, 2 are '13 snakes), but they were all very small for their age, when I received them. The '13 snakes were ~7 months when I got them; the '12 snakes were a year old.

I have been feeding them as much as they will eat, since I got them. For any given age, the '13 snakes are bigger than the '12's, because they've been on an unfettered feeding routine since a younger age.

Only time will tell, but truly, I expect that the '13 snakes will end up larger than the '12's, because they are catching up to them quite quickly.

Robert has also told me that he maintenance feeds, to prevent needing many larger cages.
 
If you want to keep them as pets, it's fine. Goofy maintenance feeding theories or not, you can prolly keep them alive. If you want healthy robust breedable animals, good luck with the inbred Easterns that are available out there! Even with perfect scalation, many have heart issues, growth stunting, etc... The scrupulous breeders have stopped breeding them for this very reason. My worthless 2 cents:)
 
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