kingfish91
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wats the best mite killer i should use 
?
?
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Mites
- Thread starter kingfish91
- Start date
harrellharrell
New member
Hands down the best is Black Knight... Unfortunately if you don't know someone who has some on hand, you're out of luck. They don't make it anymore. They do make a Black Knight II, but I haven't heard anything about it. My suggestion is a product called ReptiRelief. You should be able to find it at any pet store, or Earl May will special order it for you. You can also order it online, just Google it. The down side is you'll need a lot, and it is EXPENSIVE!!! Hope that helps.
In my opinion, hands down, the best is Provent A Mite.
http://www.pro-products.com/miteandtemp.html
It may be expensive but you only a little goes a long way. I always use it as a precautionary treatment with new quarantined animals. Follow the directions exactly. My can is more than half full and has lasted me nearly 2 years. Provent A Mite is the only product that has a residual effect, killing mites for 30 days. With a lesser product (Black Knight, Equate bedding spray, Reptile Relief) you will kill the adult mites but if there are eggs, the product will have long since stopped working once those eggs have hatched hence reinfestation. Hope this helps!
Jamie
http://www.pro-products.com/miteandtemp.html
It may be expensive but you only a little goes a long way. I always use it as a precautionary treatment with new quarantined animals. Follow the directions exactly. My can is more than half full and has lasted me nearly 2 years. Provent A Mite is the only product that has a residual effect, killing mites for 30 days. With a lesser product (Black Knight, Equate bedding spray, Reptile Relief) you will kill the adult mites but if there are eggs, the product will have long since stopped working once those eggs have hatched hence reinfestation. Hope this helps!
Jamie
ccamaleon3000
New member
me i used NIX Lice treatment for children over 3 months any cbs can buy whit a small doses mix whit water spray it to the animal whit out bold of water or food and it work for me 100%
NorthernRegius.com
Pythons baby; Pythons!
jglass38 said:
I too pre-treat all new arrivals while they are in quarantine. But I use the Equate spray. I get around any potential limits by retreating in 14 days... works like a champ!
Melinda
New member
Just a quick question for those of us with boggled memories....what's the proper way to use PAM or Equate spray?
Melinda said:
For Equate, don't use
. It's a bedding spray sold at Walmart no a product made specifically for killing mites on your reptiles. For PAM, I take everything out except substrate. A few short bursts, wait about 30 seconds and put everything back in. If the substrate is wet to the touch, too much was used. PAM doesn't get sprayed directly on the animal. Hope this helps!
Jamie
DJSlurp1200
New member
jglass38 said:For Equate, don't use
Jamie
Eqaute works great for killing mites on your reptiles!
It is marketed as a bedding spray just as PAM is marketed for Mites on Reptiles.I know several people that use it and it gives the same result of PAM at a much lower cost of only $3 a can vs. the $20-$22+ shipping for Provent-a-mite. So not only is it cheaper but if you do have a mite problem you can get a handle on it much faster than ordering online and having to wait for Provent-a-mite to be shipped to you...
By the way it also has the same % of Permethrine as PAM as well which is the active ingredient in both products...
I also know of another breeder who uses straight up Permethrine heavily heavily dilluted in water... Lightly sprays the entire snake top to bottom and the tubs as well. Doesn't harm the snake and works great. Has been doing it for years and has never had an issue.
There are several differen't ways of treating mites for reptiles...
Dilluted Permethrine
Nix
Equate
Provent-o-mite
and more!!!
Not a single one is better than the other so long as the Mites are taken care of in a safe and effective way.
DJSlurp1200 said:Eqaute works great for killing mites on your reptiles!
It is marketed as a bedding spray just as PAM is marketed for Mites on Reptiles.I know several people that use it and it gives the same result of PAM at a much lower cost of only $3 a can vs. the $20-$22+ shipping for Provent-a-mite. So not only is it cheaper but if you do have a mite problem you can get a handle on it much faster than ordering online and having to wait for Provent-a-mite to be shipped to you...
By the way it also has the same % of Permethrine as PAM as well which is the active ingredient in both products...
I also know of another breeder who uses straight up Permethrine heavily heavily dilluted in water... Lightly sprays the entire snake top to bottom and the tubs as well. Doesn't harm the snake and works great. Has been doing it for years and has never had an issue.
There are several differen't ways of treating mites for reptiles...
Dilluted Permethrine
Nix
Equate
Provent-o-mite
and more!!!
Not a single one is better than the other so long as the Mites are taken care of in a safe and effective way.
Wrong on all counts Steven. They are not even close to the same thing. I know you know this because you were part of the long thread at the other forum about mites. I could repost the information about it if it would help though.
DJSlurp1200
New member
jglass38 said:
Jamie,
What I was saying is that while Provent-a-mite works great. I'm not knocking Provent-a-mite at all since I have used it once before with a WC female I had. Used it once and they were gone! So nothing bad about the product at all... But again There are other methods as well that are just as effective and are much more readily available. Provent-a-mite is not the only product out there that works great in treating for mites... It might be one of the few marketed for doing so... but there are several products out there that do the job just as well for much less. And in todays economy regardless of your financial situation (Good or Bad) if you can save $15-$20 or more for something you might only have to use once or twice... why not??
Re-posting any information from that thread isn't going to change the fact that Equate DOES actually work great for controlling and killing mites. But if it will make you feel better in doing so... Knock yourself out.
To the original Poster IF you are having a mite problem I would try to get it under control ASAP! You can use equate (bought at your local wal-mart) for around $3 a can and you can even use it just as you would use Provent-a-mite. Most Wal-marts are open 24hr's so even if you work the late shift you can get what you need when it is convenient for you. I myself would rather get the situation under control and save money at the same time then risk having the mites spread throughout your collection while waiting the week for your PAM to come in. That's just my opinion.
Once again Steven, for your edification, here is a reposting of my post from that thread in 2007. It's one thing to say you use it for yourself, it's another to say they are the same thing.
I spent about 30 minutes on the phone with Bob Pound, the manufacturer of Provent A Mite. He may be the most knowledgeable person about pest control and the chemicals used this side of my local exterminator. I am sure the information that he provided which I will post here will be dismissed as bias by those who believe beyond a reasonable doubt that Equate is:
A. The same product in a different can
B. Equally as safe for reptiles
C. Equally as effective
Take it as you will, but this information is pretty damn convincing in my mind (which may not be on par with some of the insta-experts that reside here).
Here you go (his direct information will be in quotes):
Claim: Equate is the same product in a different can and is equally safe for reptiles as Provent A Mite
"The word permethrin is a generic name of a group of pyrethroid chemical isomers. This is like saying everything with the word soap is the same thing. Put your wet hand into a box of powdered laundry detergent and see if it is the same as a bar of ivory, but they are both "soap".
Without exception, these other products use a much more toxic isomer as they are all designed to be applied to material that maybe will have the potential for contact with mammals, which have a completely different physiology than reptiles do. These products are designed to be as toxic as possible to get a quick "knock down". These higher toxicities will not harm mammals, but are documented to harm lower vertebrates, including reptiles, fish, amphibians, mollusks and so forth and therefore can be used for these other uses. Also, only a very small percentage of what is in the can is the "active" ingredient, the rest is always a trade secret of the company, so will never be disclosed (only the generic active name has to be disclosed under EPA regulations). Different isomers have differing toxicities and again, only a range of the cis-trans ratio is given on a label, so one can never find out what is really in the can (again trade secret).
Since a product is only approved by the EPA for the uses listed on the label, chemicals in the formula that are not toxic to the host for the testing submitted, doesn't mean they would not be toxic to a host not listed. If fact many of the "inerts" used in these permethrin formulas are toxic to reptiles. If the company tried to receive EPA approval with these formulas for use on reptiles, they would not, as the EPA would not allow a product to be sold that would harm the host listed on the label. This is why the EPA regulations state that it is a federal offense to sell or use a product inconsistent with the label, not only because of the risk to the host, but also because such usage can create resistance.
Many products for example, use a more toxic isomer and then use a synergist such as PBO. PBO breaks through the insect's defense and its synergistic activity makes the insecticide more powerful and effective. With the high cost of insecticides, PBO effectively reduces the cost by allowing the product to use les s active ingredient to obtain the mortality rate desired. The problem with this is PBO is absolutely toxic to reptiles with several published studies regarding using PBO for the killing of brown tree and other snakes confirming this.
Despite anyone's claim to the contrary, many of these other "identical" products have injured and killed many reptiles as we get the phone calls from people telling us after the fact. Also many times, the exposure can lead to chronic health problems instead of an acute reaction, so if the animal dies at a later date, no one looks back and understands the actual cause of death. This is a classic example with no pest strips. No clinical studies were ever performed and people just started using them, using their animals as guinea pigs. Only after many years of usage were the risks associated with them disclosed. This has been established by many leading zoos and vets, but even now, many people still swear they are the best thing to use and do not pose any risk."
Provent-a-mite™ is the only product that has been approved by the EPA and USDA], has undergone extensive clinical and field studies to insure that will eliminate, not just control a mite or tick problem and is unique enough to have received a patent. No other product is more effective or can make these claims and certainly no other product is the same as Provent-a-mite™”
Claim: Equate (and other similar products) are equally as effective in killing mites and their eggs
"Provent-a-mite™ is the only product that will create residual protection that will not drop down to levels that can create resistance. We use a proprietary "time" release that ensures that it will create a long term residual effect at a high enough concentration to prevent the potential t o create resistant pests. Since mites and ticks can carry several diseases that can be harmful or fatal to the host, just getting an infestation is already too late if the pest was infected. Applying Provent-a-mite™to a cloth and then wiping around any openings in a cage will provide a barrier that will last a minimum of 30 days (usually 60 to 180 days). This will kill any ectoparasites before they can infest and potentially infect an animal. None of these other products can do this as their formulas are designed to break down very quickly, often in as little as 48 hours.
Provent-a-mite™ is also one of the least expensive methods when one compares the cost per application and the number of applications required. To treat an average 4' x 2' cage is approximately 50¢ with usually only one application required. To use the product preventatively, the cost for an average cage is about 5¢. The product has an average shelf life of 7 years. One of the biggest problems is that many people overuse the product, so the can will not treat as many cages as it actually should, costing more to use it than necessary.”
I spent about 30 minutes on the phone with Bob Pound, the manufacturer of Provent A Mite. He may be the most knowledgeable person about pest control and the chemicals used this side of my local exterminator. I am sure the information that he provided which I will post here will be dismissed as bias by those who believe beyond a reasonable doubt that Equate is:
A. The same product in a different can
B. Equally as safe for reptiles
C. Equally as effective
Take it as you will, but this information is pretty damn convincing in my mind (which may not be on par with some of the insta-experts that reside here).
Here you go (his direct information will be in quotes):
Claim: Equate is the same product in a different can and is equally safe for reptiles as Provent A Mite
"The word permethrin is a generic name of a group of pyrethroid chemical isomers. This is like saying everything with the word soap is the same thing. Put your wet hand into a box of powdered laundry detergent and see if it is the same as a bar of ivory, but they are both "soap".
Without exception, these other products use a much more toxic isomer as they are all designed to be applied to material that maybe will have the potential for contact with mammals, which have a completely different physiology than reptiles do. These products are designed to be as toxic as possible to get a quick "knock down". These higher toxicities will not harm mammals, but are documented to harm lower vertebrates, including reptiles, fish, amphibians, mollusks and so forth and therefore can be used for these other uses. Also, only a very small percentage of what is in the can is the "active" ingredient, the rest is always a trade secret of the company, so will never be disclosed (only the generic active name has to be disclosed under EPA regulations). Different isomers have differing toxicities and again, only a range of the cis-trans ratio is given on a label, so one can never find out what is really in the can (again trade secret).
Since a product is only approved by the EPA for the uses listed on the label, chemicals in the formula that are not toxic to the host for the testing submitted, doesn't mean they would not be toxic to a host not listed. If fact many of the "inerts" used in these permethrin formulas are toxic to reptiles. If the company tried to receive EPA approval with these formulas for use on reptiles, they would not, as the EPA would not allow a product to be sold that would harm the host listed on the label. This is why the EPA regulations state that it is a federal offense to sell or use a product inconsistent with the label, not only because of the risk to the host, but also because such usage can create resistance.
Many products for example, use a more toxic isomer and then use a synergist such as PBO. PBO breaks through the insect's defense and its synergistic activity makes the insecticide more powerful and effective. With the high cost of insecticides, PBO effectively reduces the cost by allowing the product to use les s active ingredient to obtain the mortality rate desired. The problem with this is PBO is absolutely toxic to reptiles with several published studies regarding using PBO for the killing of brown tree and other snakes confirming this.
Despite anyone's claim to the contrary, many of these other "identical" products have injured and killed many reptiles as we get the phone calls from people telling us after the fact. Also many times, the exposure can lead to chronic health problems instead of an acute reaction, so if the animal dies at a later date, no one looks back and understands the actual cause of death. This is a classic example with no pest strips. No clinical studies were ever performed and people just started using them, using their animals as guinea pigs. Only after many years of usage were the risks associated with them disclosed. This has been established by many leading zoos and vets, but even now, many people still swear they are the best thing to use and do not pose any risk."
Provent-a-mite™ is the only product that has been approved by the EPA and USDA], has undergone extensive clinical and field studies to insure that will eliminate, not just control a mite or tick problem and is unique enough to have received a patent. No other product is more effective or can make these claims and certainly no other product is the same as Provent-a-mite™”
Claim: Equate (and other similar products) are equally as effective in killing mites and their eggs
"Provent-a-mite™ is the only product that will create residual protection that will not drop down to levels that can create resistance. We use a proprietary "time" release that ensures that it will create a long term residual effect at a high enough concentration to prevent the potential t o create resistant pests. Since mites and ticks can carry several diseases that can be harmful or fatal to the host, just getting an infestation is already too late if the pest was infected. Applying Provent-a-mite™to a cloth and then wiping around any openings in a cage will provide a barrier that will last a minimum of 30 days (usually 60 to 180 days). This will kill any ectoparasites before they can infest and potentially infect an animal. None of these other products can do this as their formulas are designed to break down very quickly, often in as little as 48 hours.
Provent-a-mite™ is also one of the least expensive methods when one compares the cost per application and the number of applications required. To treat an average 4' x 2' cage is approximately 50¢ with usually only one application required. To use the product preventatively, the cost for an average cage is about 5¢. The product has an average shelf life of 7 years. One of the biggest problems is that many people overuse the product, so the can will not treat as many cages as it actually should, costing more to use it than necessary.”
NorthernRegius.com
Pythons baby; Pythons!
Not to get into a "war" but Jamie is discounting what I & MANY other keepers know works... Equate works. It works so well that my local zoo uses it as do other zoos BTW- you just need to retreat. It works for me... and that's all I can say since I never used PAM.
Deb,
I'm really not discounting anything and am not looking at getting into a war about bugs. I am just trying to help inexperienced keepers to get rid of mites safely without endangering their animals. Equate, Nix, etc will kill mites. They all offfer no residual effect so if there are eggs and those eggs don't hatch within about 48 hours of the application, reinfestation will occur. I am also arguing the notion that they are the same product. There is no way anyone could know the formulation of the products. Pro Products holds a patent on their proprietary formula. It's the only one approved for use in reptiles. I have used homebrews before. I would never recommend them to someone and have the death of their animal on my conscience. Everyone should do what works best for them. I've learned that over the years.
I'm really not discounting anything and am not looking at getting into a war about bugs. I am just trying to help inexperienced keepers to get rid of mites safely without endangering their animals. Equate, Nix, etc will kill mites. They all offfer no residual effect so if there are eggs and those eggs don't hatch within about 48 hours of the application, reinfestation will occur. I am also arguing the notion that they are the same product. There is no way anyone could know the formulation of the products. Pro Products holds a patent on their proprietary formula. It's the only one approved for use in reptiles. I have used homebrews before. I would never recommend them to someone and have the death of their animal on my conscience. Everyone should do what works best for them. I've learned that over the years.
Cat_72
Back from exile :)
Personally.....while others have used Nix or Equate, or whatever other products with success, I just feel better only using something that is proven to be safe and approved for use on my animals. If it means spending a few extra dollars, so be it.
I know I would feel awful if I recommended using Nix to someone, and then they mixed it wrong or something, and they ended up losing that animal. To me, the chance, no matter how slight it is, just isn't worth it.
Maybe it's a personal preference and nothing more, but I feel that treating the mites directly on the animal, using Reptile Relief, as well as those in the enclosure is the most thorough and effective solution. I honestly don't know how long it takes for mites on an animal to die once they are reintroduced to an enclosure after only an enclosure-type treatment is used, but I think to get the mites on the animal itself dead ASAP is the most humane way of treating them.
I've only had very minor issues with mites, caught immediately after the animals came in, thankfully. Between proper quarantine and using Reptile Relief and PAM according to package directions, I've never had an issue spread. Being proactive with something proven safe is the way to go, IMHO.
I know I would feel awful if I recommended using Nix to someone, and then they mixed it wrong or something, and they ended up losing that animal. To me, the chance, no matter how slight it is, just isn't worth it.
Maybe it's a personal preference and nothing more, but I feel that treating the mites directly on the animal, using Reptile Relief, as well as those in the enclosure is the most thorough and effective solution. I honestly don't know how long it takes for mites on an animal to die once they are reintroduced to an enclosure after only an enclosure-type treatment is used, but I think to get the mites on the animal itself dead ASAP is the most humane way of treating them.
I've only had very minor issues with mites, caught immediately after the animals came in, thankfully. Between proper quarantine and using Reptile Relief and PAM according to package directions, I've never had an issue spread. Being proactive with something proven safe is the way to go, IMHO.
NorthernRegius.com
Pythons baby; Pythons!
Speaking of reptile specific treatments... Black knight was all the rage when I first got into keeping. I saw they now have BK II out- has anyone used it & what did you think of it compared to PAM if you did?