A fair assessment of the situation is in order.
Cmpyrrhus said:
Well, for one, I never put in my 2 cents on the BC forums, but was able to read them as they progressed. Now I truly wish I had saved it myself, just so that others would be able to see the incorrect manner in which the forum mods had acted. Be it that the others (a.k.a. "Anti-moids") may have acted improperly, I see it was just in response to how negligent and rudely the mods spoke with such ease on such a touchy subject. Personally, I see it all as impolite and unprofessional for all these "professionally employed scientists" and Docs to act as such. You made your forum look weak and pathetic. But then again, I have no credentials so what does it mean in the end, right?
Well, apparently you either 1) didn't read the topic too closely, or 2) your memory doesn't serve you very well. There are only two doctors on the BCF, Dr Alan and myself. I never posted in that topic and Dr Alan made two posts (and one other small joke post that isn't worth mentioning here). They were as follows:
The first was the second post of the entire topic in which he was responding to a request for information about venomoids.
The second was a plea for everyone to calm down.
C'mon everybody. This has degenerated into a pissing match. I'm getting more "reply to a posting" notices in my inbox than spam, and that's saying something. Everyone feels strongly regarding their positions and no one is likely to change his or her mind. Let's close down the flame-war and close this thread. Where are the mods? Probably all at the KC show.
So...my point (in case it needs to be spelled out) is that the "Docs" didn't act "as such."
I guess that you just made that part of the story up.
You also said "incorrect manner in which the forum mods had acted" and "how negligent and rudely the mods spoke with such ease on such a touchy subject." First of all, the only mod that even posted in that thread was Randy. Second, he didn't post after page 3 of a 7 page topic! Third, I just read the whole topic and all he did was present an opposing viewpoint to many of the claims that were made. He NEVER took a "pro-venomoid stance" he simply stated that he was not against it morally.
In the first post in this topic Seamus says, "The moderators and their faithful lap dogs were extremely offensive and disrespectful to the highly credible individuals they were arguing with and the thread was eventually locked down." That statement is a
gross misrepresentation of what really happened. Randy was never "extremely offensive" or "disrespectful." He simply asked for people to provide evidence to support many of the contentions that they made. He even went on to explain why he was asking for it...because he's a scientist and "someone said so" is not enough evidence for him to buy into an argument. I agree with him on that.
Seamus has not only misrepresented (read as lied) about the moderators role in what transpired, he also left out the fact that his
first post was highly inflamatory and offered nothing to the thread other than to escalate the fight. In fact, he didn't even address the subject at hand...he merely threw around accusations and called people names. His first post occured in the middle of page 4 (page 4 is where the fighting first began...bear in mind that Randy never posted after page 3). Here is Seamus' post:
I had planned a response to this, after Scott pointed the thread out to me but then I remembered which forum this was and realized I had forgotten my vasaline.
Scott, Brian, BW, Tanith... Something to keep in mind here is that, while there are individuals who are quite credible over here and many who I have a great deal of respect for there is also a large segment of "circle-jerkers" who pretty much speak with their foot in their mouth, their head up their butt and participate only because there's a pack of similar individuals who are going to support their every statement simply because they are a forum regular. The fact that none of them seem to reccognize Tanith is evidence enough of the cloistered minds you're dealing with here. There is a segment of the posters on this message board who don't want intelligent and educated people participating, as it would cause their own ignorances to come to light in the fullness of time.
As I said... I have a great deal of respect for many *individuals* who choose to use this forum... I also have no respect whatsoever for many of the others or the mentality which has risen up here.
The post count titles are something of an indicator too... Labeling someone an expert because they have lots of free time to post on an internet message board gives some deluded morons a false sense of ego. Of course, anyone who registered later or doesn't spend as much time patting themselves on the back from their computer doesn't have said label and must not know anything.
-Seamus Haley
Please judge for yourself what Seamus' intentions were when he joined this "discussion." Personally, I think that they are quite clear.
Cmpyrrhus said:
After having witnessed this thread take place, I do believe I will not take place at the BC forums myself due to the fact that I found the (some of?) mods to be rude. I actually registered and there was other threads I would like to take place in, but as from what I has seen in the venomoid thread take place, I hesitate to participate in that forum.
I have already covered the issue of whether or not the
mod (not plural) acted inappropriately. Once I make the topic available for general reading again you can feel free to point out where Randy was such a jerk.
The fighting in that thread started between two long standing BCF members (Tom C and Ian) and some people who joined the forum in order to enter this debate (the worst offender was GreggM, but Mustangrde1 also got involved only he was far more refrained). Seamus was also most certainly involved in the degeneration of the topic. He showed up and did his part to fan the flames without offering a snippet on the subject at hand.
I think that it should also be noted that the people who were the most civil and professional in their comments in this thread, and who did not get involved in the name calling and mudslinging, were Tanith (MsTT), Randy (Lyncheyez) and Brian W. Smith (BWSmith). Anyone who lumped these individuals into the accusations that were made about what transpired did so incorrectly. The topic (although locked to further posting) will stand as testament to that fact.
So...I say all that to ask this...
Are you telling me that you are going to judge an entire forum with 1881 members based on a few posts by a few members? If so, that is remarkably closeminded.
Now on to other things....
I have bumped heads with Seamus in the past, just like many others. Certainly equally (if not worse) than the folks that are complaining about him have. To be honest though...when folks get upset or mad with his comments it is usually because they were corrected and felt a need to retaliate other than look at what they had done incorrectly. To add more though...he has treated me with much respect, and surely gets mine as well.
Can you please show me where Seamus corrected anyone in either the venomoid topic or this topic? He didn't "correct" anyone. All he did was try to create problems in an already troubled situation. How many times has he tried to stir up problems on different forums? As far as I can see, he has done it on every forum that he has ever been involved with. You can respect him all you want, but I have to disagree with your assessment of his actions and his motives.
I have seen, as well as been part of, the "AOL fun" that he and others have brought up. To be honest, AOL is mostly full of morons, and when corrected, feel the need to come off a even more stubborn and crooked than they had first started. I have seen his posts there, and honestly agree with about everything he has said. So stating that these AOL folks have dealt with him surely means jack to me, knowing that most all that are active participants there are mindless baboons with a lizard in an aquarium stating facts to the public as if they were all around herp-guru's and herpetologists, I see it as delusions of AOL Host granger.
I cannot comment on the nature of the AOL herp forums. I posted the previous emails because they serve as yet another example of Seamus trying to stir up problems on internet herp forums...much the same as he has tried to do here.
In order to provide evidence to what I have stated here, and to allow people ample opportunity to contest my assessment, here is the link to the venomoid thread:
http://www.bobclark.com/bcforums/to...pic_Title=Venomoid&Forum_Title=Bob+Clark+Main
One last thing...
I think that it should be noted that Ian (whom I mentioned earlier) has emailed several of the people involved as well as myself (because as the admin I have been drug into all of this) and apologized for his part in everything that transpired. He even went so far as to post a public apology to the forum in general. That apology can be read here:
Ian's apology
Personally, I think (as I said in that topic) that his actions in the aftermath of this situation speaks volumes of the man's character. I am including all of this as a footnote to this post because of the fact that I mentioned Ian earlier as one of the main people involved, and I think that his actions after the fact should also be considered in this same discussion.
