More Mini-Dictators

[Seamus Haley]

Wouldn't this post have been better if it was done via e mail or PM rather than telling him to go to hell in a nice way on a public forum??

Nothing to worry about Brian, I knew when I posted that there would never be an apology. It would be out of character for Randy (or the other BC posters who have attitude problems) to admit a mistake of any kind.

 

[Dr Owens]

What???

Nothing to worry about Brian, I knew when I posted that there would never be an apology. It would be out of character for Randy (or the other BC posters who have attitude problems) to admit a mistake of any kind.

Hold on a second...you want someone to apologize to you? For what???

You came onto the BCF with the sole purpose of trying to stir up trouble. Then you came to Fauna and tried to stir up more trouble. Once the truth came to light (the truth being that you had lied about what Randy had said and done) it was obvious what your intentions were...and you want someone to apologize to you?

I just don't get it...did you start drinking a little early in the day or something?

 

[snakegetters]

Re: What???

You came onto the BCF with the sole purpose of trying to stir up trouble. Then you came to Fauna and tried to stir up more trouble. Once the truth came to light (the truth being that you had lied about what Randy had said and done) it was obvious what your intentions were...and you want someone to apologize to you?

I must respectfully disagree. I don't see any truly evil villains in this case, just some opinionated people with strong personalities who are butting heads on a highly emotional issue.

I don't think Seamus *or* Randy is lying. I think they're both angry enough to be willing to jump to conclusions about the other person's motivations.

Maybe somebody in this mess can be the big guy and just let it go at that. I'd apologize myself if it would help, but it probably won't.

 

[bcfos]

Nothing to worry about Brian, I knew when I posted that there would never be an apology. It would be out of character for Randy (or the other BC posters who have attitude problems) to admit a mistake of any kind.

Seamus,

Let me ask you a question. Did you go over to BCF and that post with the full intention to stir up trouble or did you just end up doing so by accident? I know you are very firm in your beliefs and stand behind them with pitbull determination, but if you went there with the goal of ruffeling some feathers then you shouldn't recieve an apology. But if you better explain your intentions others might see how you managed to cause a mini uproar.

I am not taking either side in this dispute I just call them as I see them. The statement made by AJC was out of line IMO so I said something about it. The statement you made about no one from BCF being able to give an apology is also wrong. I have seen in the past folks over there give retractions and public apologies when they were wrong, so don't say it is out of character for them to do so.

 

[Dr Owens]

Re: Re: What???

I must respectfully disagree. I don't see any truly evil villains in this case, just some opinionated people with strong personalities who are butting heads on a highly emotional issue.

I don't think Seamus *or* Randy is lying. I think they're both angry enough to be willing to jump to conclusions about the other person's motivations.

Maybe somebody in this mess can be the big guy and just let it go at that. I'd apologize myself if it would help, but it probably won't.

Tanith (and everyone else for that matter),
Please go back and read the last post (by me) on this page:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35548&perpage=5&pagenumber=14

I already established that Seamus' reasons for starting this entire topic were based on false witness of Randy's involvement in the venomoid topic. He has some sort of issue with Randy (as does a few other people). This is more than obvious to reasonable people. Get over it. Move on. You can't get along lovingly with everyone in the world...and no one is going to "change" just to make you happy.

The bottom line is this...the BCF is one of the most informative sites on the net for people who keep boids. It has been for several years now. We're not going to change anything just because a few people who have been members for a very short period of time don't like everything about the site. Hundreds of people actively post on the site everyday, and thousands of people visit the site everyday. The purpose of the site is not to make money, rather it is to provide good reliable information about boid husbandry. We do a very good job of providing that information. If that doesn't meet with some people's expectations, then they should feel free to find another forum that is more in line with their tastes.

This topic ran it's course a long time ago. If you want to have a conversation about proper venomous handling techniques (or any of the other off topic subjects that have been brought up here), then start a topic in the correct forum...as Rich suggested earlier.

 

[Seamus Haley]

Did you go over to BCF and that post with the full intention to stir up trouble or did you just end up doing so by accident?

I didn't intend to cause problems in the least. I was given a link via an instant messanger service from someone who had already posted to the thread. By the time I got there it was already a massive jumbled mess of misinformation, name calling and general disrespect between the two camps. I read through it, formed an opinion and posted. Any conjecture about my motives is just that... conjecture. Jay is quickly placing himself into the same category as Randy with his continued insistance that I registered (prior to that thread incidentally) intentionally to "cause problems" There's no reason for me to do this and no REAL history of me causing problems on other sites. Many MANY people ended up banned from KS and the letters from AOL Moderators (who are all aparantly unwilling to take credit for thei words) arose from arguments with Melissa Kaplan. Both situations were, to my mind, justified and not indicative of habitual behavior (inasmuch as these situations also happened over several YEARS). I've been a bit hesitant to respond directly to Jay because of his status on THIS site and because I'm honestly not sure if he can be trusted to keep the forums... and his moderation of them... seperate and distinct. I get the feeling he's a BCF moderator on Fauna rather than a Fauna moderator on Fauna.

The statement you made about no one from BCF being able to give an apology is also wrong

Not everyone over there... Just some. I don't believe Randy is capable of apologizing when he's incorrect or out of line and I think there are a few who follow his lead on that. I specified "attitude problems" as being characteristic of the ones unable to apologize. As evidence of this, since apparantly my motivation is an open book (ha ha) I would bring attention back to his automatic response to Tanith's use of her own words (How dare she?!). Given a situation where his foot was stuck in his mouth, rather than be a bigger human being about the whole thing and apologize or laugh about it... he went and continued to criticize.

I'm sure there are a great many people other there who are fine individuals... Heck, I KNOW a lot of them are since I have encountered them on other forums or in person... There just seems to be a small number of extremely frequent posters who fall into this category. Sometimes the character of a message board isn't defined by the entire body of registered users, but rather that handful who are there, waiting to respond instantly to every thread.

I already established that Seamus' reasons for starting this entire topic were based on false witness of Randy's involvement in the venomoid topic.

Jay... you didn't "establish" anything as being factual when it comes to my motivation. You simply guessed what I was thinking and your perspective on this entire issue is biased (as is mine and anyone else who participated in the threads in question). I will say this right now flat out... You're dead wrong about why I registered and why I posted. The only thing you might "prove" is why I added the quote and link to my signature... because I openly stated it was because I thought it was funny to see Randy make an ass out of himself. After his attitude on the venomoid thread and his attacks upon the credibility of a number of people, it was amusing to watch the backpeddling when confronted with the reality of who he was dealing with.

He has some sort of issue with Randy (as does a few other people). This is more than obvious to reasonable people. Get over it. Move on. You can't get along lovingly with everyone in the world...and no one is going to "change" just to make you happy

If there are multiple people who have an issue with Randy's conduct... Wouldn't that be an indication that maybe there's a common root for those problems? I really only see one identical factor in a situation where multiple individuals have problems with the way Randy behaves... And that's Randy himself.

If that doesn't meet with some people's expectations, then they should feel free to find another forum that is more in line with their tastes.

... as they have...

This post is appropriate to this forum, simply an account of an experience on another website. And look! It's on a site more in line with my tastes!

This topic ran it's course a long time ago.

Then by all means, be the one to end the vicious cycle and don't bother replying.

 

[snakegetters]

Re: Re: Re: What???

Tanith (and everyone else for that matter),
Please go back and read the last post (by me) on this page:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35548&perpage=5&pagenumber=14

Yes, I read that. I see that Seamus made a factual mistake by saying "mods" instead of "mod". The rest seems to be a matter of opinion and impression - which I initially shared before deciding to take the time to try to better understand Randy's point of view.

I already established that Seamus' reasons for starting this entire topic were based on false witness of Randy's involvement in the venomoid topic.

Randy was involved in that topic and he did say some things that I felt were less than perfectly fair. As did pretty much everyone on that thread. *shrug* We're all only human and it was a highly emotional topic.

He has some sort of issue with Randy (as does a few other people). This is more than obvious to reasonable people.

Again I think it's more a matter of opinion and impressions than there being really clear cut good guys and bad guys here. I think that anyone in a moderator position risks pissing a certain number of people off regardless of what decisions he makes. Randy made some decisions that I felt were ill advised, but I can understand why he made them. I can also understand why other people got angry about them. I don't have the right to sit in judgement over Randy and say what decisions he should be making as a moderator. This is only my opinion of the reason some people may have issues with him, for the whole two cents that it's worth.

The bottom line is this...the BCF is one of the most informative sites on the net for people who keep boids. It has been for several years now. We're not going to change anything just because a few people who have been members for a very short period of time don't like everything about the site. Hundreds of people actively post on the site everyday, and thousands of people visit the site everyday. The purpose of the site is not to make money, rather it is to provide good reliable information about boid husbandry. We do a very good job of providing that information. If that doesn't meet with some people's expectations, then they should feel free to find another forum that is more in line with their tastes.

Okay, fair enough. I'll do that. It doesn't seem really fair to continue discussing Randy here when he is unable to respond. I have no personal ill will towards him and I hope he enjoys his travels.

 

[WebSlave]

I get the feeling he's a BCF moderator on Fauna rather than a Fauna moderator on Fauna.

And the source of these feelings are..... ?

"Feelings" aside, Jay is here as a moderator for FaunaClassifieds and has been asked to act as such. But in the same vein, he is under no obligation to give up his identity concerning his role on other message boards. So certainly he can and will wear the appropriate hat at the appropriate time.

His job here, while wearing the FaunaClassifieds moderator hat, is to act as a moderator here in relation to what people post here. What someone may do, or he himself do, on another message board is irrelevant while wearing this particular hat. No one here SHOULD be penalized by anyone functioning as a moderator based on what they may or may not have done on another site. In like kind, no moderator here is asked to treat this site as they do any other site they may have similar duties on. If anything, they would likely be asked NOT to, as it is highly unlikely that the rules would be identical anyway. If you or anyone else sees evidence to the contrary, then you know how to reach me.

 

[bcfos]

Seamus,

If the post had already "Gone to hell" I wouldn't have posted on it in the first place. Being that it was "Full of misinformation"(in your words) I would have refrained from posting at all and let it run it course without my input.

As for Randy not being able to give a public apology I feel that isn't the case. Look at it from another prespective. If he was to give an apology now people would jump in and bash him for it. You know the kick a person while he is down attitude. That wouldn't be good for him nor the forum now would it? everyone makes mistakes in life, I don't care how much good information you can give out, that one time you slip up and give bad advice someone will be there to pounce on it like a crack addict would a rock they found on the street. Public forums have people from all walks of life with different views/morals. Given enough time there will be a misunderstanding between people because of differences in beliefs.

After reading the posts more carefully I have come to the conclusion that you went in full throttle no holds barred from the get go. Look at your first sentence and say it wasn't ment to cause a backlash of negative replies. I don't candy coat anything I say. therefore I do have people that don't like me for that. Do I care? NO ! It is only a forum after all. Granted BCF has some great information on it and some great people also, but it is a public forum so you will get some disagreements between members because of differences in opinion from time to time. Does that take away from the main issue that they have what is probly the best information for boid keepers out there? NO !

I would say log this down as a dead issue and quit beating it because it has died already. Time to move on IMO.

 

[snakegetters]

Then by all means, be the one to end the vicious cycle and don't bother replying.

Seamus, it's my fault that this thread is continuing. The discussion was getting ugly on a venomous forum and the mods there had already requested that we take it elsewhere. I figured this would be the most reasonable and on topic place to take it, so I posted the "open letter" about the safety issue. Mea culpa. I felt that it was truly an important community issue to bring up and I also felt that it would be off topic on any forum except Fauna. I may have been wrong.

 

[NeoScales]

it was amusing to watch the backpeddling when confronted with the reality of who he was dealing with.

That's simply a delusional statement; as I've retracted nothing, but have made my position abundantly clear to everyone involved. Further the characterization is dimwitted and baseless, like a number of other “astute” things you've written for the sake of your own amusement and to inflame.

Quit with the childish baiting tactics, it lost its charm about 20 pages ago…

As for Randy not being able to give a public apology I feel that isn't the case.

If there's been something to apologize for, I would and have in the past. That honestly isn't the case here, and so it goes without saying that event will not be occurring.

-Randy

 

[Gregg M]

Thats pretty cool how people talk bad about people behind their back....... I just registered on this site yesterday and look what I find...... Here is my take on the BC forum...... There are a few people with a god complex on that site including a mod or two..... Now this is my opinion so no one has to agree but it seems as soon as a person comes on that has a a good amount of knowledge and maybe more on certain subjects, they are attacked by certain individuals that are afraid that their god like image will be destroyed......
There are also a ton of a$$ kissers on the site as well..... Those are unfortunate people that want to be part of the "click"....... There are just some very rude, "know it all" people over there and some of the people there to moderate the forum join in on the bashings and hyjinx........ The thing that makes me feel there is a god complex on that site is because of a few statements..... The one in particular was the one made by Randy, about that if someone questions his abilities the post will be deleted......LOL...... Why not just answer the question?????? He is more worried about his image than he is giving the answer to a simple question...... Also, they will not answer to people that do not have a full bio listed in the profile....... What kind of crap is that????? Oh and I cant forget about people making fun of others because of spelling and telling them how anoying it is ....... What a joke......
And if you guys want to talk about e-mails..... Well I got a bunch of them from members of the BC forum that agreed 100% with what I was saying but were afraid to say something out of fear of being labled a TROLL or being kicked off the site....... It is a real shame how egos can get in the way like they do........ I remember someone calling me an egomaniac because I keep hots and feel that proper tools should be used and gave a very firm opinion on the subject at hand..........
I have been labled a troll ONLY on the BC forum and that is the only place I have ever been called 'peta" like....... All because of my stance on venomoids........ Because many, including myself are against the cruel treatment of these snake just so some reject can play with a cobra........
I look at it like this, the only people I care to talk to are the people that count...... That includes the people I can learn from and the people that are interested in learning....... The people that do not count are pretty obvious.....
It is pretty funny to watch people backpeddle and kiss a$$....... Have fun over there at the moderators fan forum.....

 

[NeoScales]

...and it rises from the dead

The one in particular was the one made by Randy, about that if someone questions his abilities the post will be deleted......LOL...... Why not just answer the question??????

No you're a "gottabe" who behaves as though he's the only person who's kept a hot. I answered you - you don't deserve an answer because your not the arbiter of all things venomous Gregg. You keep animals with simple husbandry requirements, the same snakes I’ve kept for over 12 years, and you think you’re “owed” something – you’re not.

Also posts of an asinine nature or pointless argumentative posts do in fact get removed – if yours were in either of those two categories, blame yourself.

Have fun over there at the moderators fan forum.....

Gee...we'll miss all your insightful posts concerning captive reptiles and their husbandry. Well we would if your input or knowledge extended beyond posting fuzzy images of Bitis an attempting to draw attention to yourself by pointing out your extensive experiance keeping Bitis alive.

I have been labled a troll ONLY on the BC forum

You've not been labeled a "troll" on the BCF and you still post there (for now). You just posted the other day...

Based simply on your appearance, I'll take wild stab and say you have a little problem with authority. However it’s your problem to deal with, and while your free to espouse all the nonsensical comments you want here, you’ve been treated more than fair and professionally.


-Randy May

 

[glitch]

Thats pretty cool how people talk bad about people behind their back....... I just registered on this site yesterday and look what I find......

Last time I checked this forums was public. Also, this is not a thread about you. You were simply mentioned along with may other people and topics.

Here is my take on the BC forum...... There are a few people with a god complex on that site including a mod or two..... Now this is my opinion so no one has to agree but it seems as soon as a person comes on that has a a good amount of knowledge and maybe more on certain subjects, they are attacked by certain individuals that are afraid that their god like image will be destroyed......

Gregg, if that were the case then why was Dr. Alan welcomed onto the BCF?

You were not welcomed because you act like keeping venomous makes you're wee wee bigger. While you may not have come right out and said that, it's the image you portray, and even I can see that. And we have never had a discussion if my memory serves me right.

I don't have anything against you and I'm not attacking you, but with a signature line like "If you can't keep venomous, go get a freakin corn snake!", you come off as an a**hole right away.

The thing that makes me feel there is a god complex on that site is because of a few statements..... The one in particular was the one made by Randy, about that if someone questions his abilities the post will be deleted......LOL...... Why not just answer the question?????? He is more worried about his image than he is giving the answer to a simple question......

Randy did not say he would delete posts that questioned his methods. What Randy clearly said was, he would not tolerate you turning a simple thread featuring snake pictures into a discussion about the safety concerns of handling venomous reptiles when there was no need for it. And he FREELY INVITED you to start you're own thread on that subject, which you did not. If you don't recall exactly what was said, let me quote Randy:

This thread depicts snake photos, if you want to educate someone on safe handling techniques...start your own thread in the Husbandry forum. I’ve not advocated anyone get, handle, or molest anything - but if you’re so stupid that seeing a picture of a snake, knowing that somewhere at sometime, in someway a venomous snake was touched causes you to think you can freehand a Gaboon- there’s little hope and don’t lay that on me.

Also, they will not answer to people that do not have a full bio listed in the profile....... What kind of crap is that?????

Is it so much to ask that a person take 5 minutes to fill out the profile so that members wish to give information or advice know where that person is coming from? The BCF has seen allot of trolls who don't fill out they're bio and people are tired of wasting they're time answering people who are just looking to start a fight.

Oh and I cant forget about people making fun of others because of spelling and telling them how anoying it is ....... What a joke......

Yeah...the BCF is a forum full of Nazis because they ask people not to rape the English language. Gregg, if someone came onto a thread I started and was giving me info or advice, I'd take them allot more seriously if they at least had the maturity to make it legible.

And if you guys want to talk about e-mails..... Well I got a bunch of them from members of the BC forum that agreed 100% with what I was saying but were afraid to say something out of fear of being labeled a TROLL or being kicked off the site....... It is a real shame how egos can get in the way like they do........ I remember someone calling me an egomaniac because I keep hots and feel that proper tools should be used and gave a very firm opinion on the subject at hand..........

I doubt anyone was calling you an egomaniac because you want people to use the popper tolls when handling venom. You were called out in the gaboon picture thread because Randy made an off handed comment that you turned into a safety instruction class with out need. You may not have meant it to come out this way, but it sure sounded like you were stroking you're own ego with you're comments in that thread. I think thats why you got friction.

I wanted to respond to you're post because it sure sounds like you are stereo-typing the BCF, which I am a long standing member of. There is no conspiracy against you. You simply come off as being rude and inflammatory. If that isn't you're intention, then maybe you should take more care in posting there and tone it down a bit.

 

[snakegetters]

I think I'm seeing a culture clash between two distinct online cultures with different expectations and values.

In the venomous keeping community, ANYTHING can turn a conversation into a safety discussion. That's not only normal but encouraged. No matter how experienced you are, if you mention something that seems in the least bit unsafe, if you forgot to discuss the safety precautions you took before you did something like letting somebody pet your Gaboon viper, you will be questioned.

People in that culture take this in stride. It's just the way things are done there. They simply address the safety issues and move along. Nobody feels insulted or gets angry. It's simply business as usual. We are all committed to maintaining a good public standard of safety awareness for the community, and that is more important than being too polite to ask questions.

People have different personalities, and sometimes it can be hard to tell what the emotional meaning of a person's words are over the Internet. So someone may come off as abrasive or arrogant when in fact their feelings are none of the above. It's also true that some people really are pretty rude, so the way they ask safety questions could be phrased a lot more politely. That doesn't invalidate the safety questions; it just means some people should learn better manners.

The signature that offended you refers specifically to the cruel and inhumane practice of mutilating venomous snakes in order to make them "harmless" pets. This mutilation is not done by veterinarians nearly as often as by amateur garage hackers who use no pain relief medications or support care. Responsible venomous keepers are appalled at this practice in which snakes are cruelly tortured and crippled so that someone with no experience or tools at all can play freely with a "pet" venomous snake. This is instant gratification at its worst, where the snakes pay the price in blood and pain for our greed and impatience.

Our ethical stance is that if you lack the tools and skills to safely keep a venomous snake, you should keep only nonvenomous species. The tools and skills are not particularly difficult to acquire, which makes the practice even more shameful. This is not a macho ethic, but a humane and compassionate one.

 

[Bobby Douglass]

Tanith, I admire your ability to keep your cool throughout this whole thing. I'm not opposed to a properly done venomoid but your arguments are logical and rational.

The Bob Clark Forum is different than most other forums out there. Randy was just showing his friends some pictures he took. If someone we didn't know came there and posted the same thing we may have questioned them about it. No, Randy isn't above questioning but we know him and his skill level. If we had to document all the safety precautions we took every post we make this wouldn't be very enjoyable at all.

 

[snakegetters]

The Bob Clark Forum is different than most other forums out there. Randy was just showing his friends some pictures he took. If someone we didn't know came there and posted the same thing we may have questioned them about it. No, Randy isn't above questioning but we know him and his skill level. If we had to document all the safety precautions we took every post we make this wouldn't be very enjoyable at all.

I totally understand how you feel. It's as if some good friends were having a party, and some guy came in and started asking abrupt questions about something he'd overheard. Naturally you feel that he was intrusive and that "everybody" there already knew that there was no problem. A forum on the Internet can feel a lot like a safe private party when all the regulars know each other, even if it really is a public space that anyone can view or participate in if they have a computer and an Internet connection.

From our point of view, we walked into a wide open public place where people were talking in front of the entire world, and saw someone whom we did not know say something that seriously set off our alarm bells. I've already covered at length why the words "touch a Gaboon viper" make me go eeeek, and I've reposted the reasons in an informational article at http://www.snakegetters.com/demo/gaboons.html.

Because of the nature of Gaboon vipers, there are a lot of people who have badly mistaken beliefs about how slow and lazy and pettable they are. Some of these people air their mistaken beliefs on various forums, where they are (hopefully) corrected before they spread this bad idea to even more people. Now that was not the case with Randy, he is an experienced keeper who knows better than that, but unfortunately the average person viewing his post would have no really good way of figuring this out.

Or worse, if they did know that Randy was an experienced keeper, they might conclude that since a good guy like Randy casually mentions letting folks touch his Gaboon that it's an okay thing to do. The safety protocols he used are not mentioned anywhere in the post and people can draw some pretty bad conclusions from that.

That's all really. Not that Randy is a bad person or an unsafe keeper, but some critical safety information was missing in the public post. I think there is a legitimate reason to be concerned about that and to ask that the mistaken impression be corrected in the interests of better public safety standards. It's also legitimate for Randy to prefer that these concerns be expressed with a reasonable degree of courtesy.

Like I said, I don't see any bad guys here, just differing viewpoints. I do think that every experienced keeper, especially those of us who hold some position of responsibility on a public forum, should give thought and consideration to setting good safety standards in public. There is already too much grossly irresponsible behavior and too many stupid snake tricks on television for people to imitate. We need better role models than that.

I think it is important for venomous keepers to set an example of safety and professionalism, especially if they are well experienced and respected and thus in a a good position to send a positive safety message to the community. If we can work together and help each other accomplish this, so much the better for all of us. That's my opinion anyhow.

 

[Gregg M]

So, gaboons, and rhinos have simple husbandry requirments????? Thats a new one to me....... More misconceptions on bitis care...... Gaboons and rhinos are anything but simple to keep...... How many people do you see posting pics of gaboons or rhinos over three feet???? Not too many...... The reason being is that alot of people think that they are easy to keep...... The sad thing is that they usually wind up dehydrating or come down with a serious URI in the hands of inexperiance, uneducated keepers....... In the end they die a slow death...... I never once saw you post a pic of a single venomous snake you owned....... I see you take really sweet pictures of Dr. Owens beautiful animals....... You even told me in a post that you do not keep any venomous animals....... I believe you said you kept some 12 years ago or something to that effect........
You are right Randy, you did not owe me anything but I felt you owed it to the rest of the herp community to shed a little light on the safty precausions used, so someone can touch a venomous snake.......
I do not have anything against you personally, but I feel you left out some important info and so did other keepers that deal with these animals on a daily basis....... I dont think I came off rude....... My following replies were a direct result of your replies to me......
Randy, why would I make a post about bitis husbandry on that site when no body there keeps bitis????? Oh yeah Dr. Owens does but I think he knows enough to keep them without my help...... I know you do not know me or what I know but the people that do know me, know that I know what I am talking about when it comes to bitis....... Not many keepers put the time into learning about the true nature of the animals they keep....... Most people keep things because they look cool....... I do not keep anything other than bitis...... Please do not try to say I do not know anything about the animals I keep...... I have some bitis that have been in my care for over ten years....... I post pics of them because I am proud of how well taken care of they are and I love to share them with anyone who wants to see them..... Show me one pic of a gaboon or rhino that looks as healthy and well taken care of as mine......
Glitch, You have my sig confused with someone elses....... I have since changed the one I had up there, but that one you stated was never mine....... Spelling and an incomplete bio should not be grounds to discredit someone....... Einstine was one of the worst spellers in the world......

 

[NeoScales]

I believe you said you kept some 12 years ago or something to that effect........

No, I've kept them for a little over 12 years. My last was my Cape Cobra, which for the time being resides with Jay, but was in my care since birth until a month ago. But I've kept dozens of different species consistently over the past years…

Please do not try to say I do not know anything about the animals I keep

No one has, only that you don't contribute much to the forum's topics concerning non-venomous snakes (which you imply to be a lesser task), which is what we are about.

Randy, why would I make a post about bitis husbandry on that site when no body there keeps bitis???

I have recently, Anthony does now, Jay does as well, and there are others...

My following replies were a direct result of your replies to me......

So I'm responsible for your behavior (and mine too of course)? You did come off as arrogant and rude, whether you agree or not, and all you were asked to do was ask in a more polite manner. To which you opted to become increasingly more difficult and rude.

I've got nothing against you per se Gregg and things can be a nice and enjoyable as you want them to be. Re-read you first post here (and remember I didn't start this thread), and ask yourself if you would let that kind of uncalled for trash-talk stand.

I'm willing to let it all be the past, if you want it to be so and stop the taunting nonsense. There's enjoyment to be had I think, but not on the road you've taken so far.

-Randy May

 

[Gregg M]

Ok I am cool with letting this stupidity die...... Both sides had their falts as well as good points...... If you noticed on the BC forum, I changed my sig so I would not offend anyone....... So I was willing to end it a while ago and I am glad you are willing as well....... I think it was just a simple statement that just got out of control...... It is hard to put true feelings in type on a computer screen....... I just hope you can understand where I was comming from and why most of the other people who keep venomous snakes might have felt there was much info missing from the rest of your statement......
Later Randy.......