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Mouse variants and coloration

Clay Davenport

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I'll give a little background about these mice, but for those that may lose interest I'll ask the question first.
Does any of the mice fanciers out there know what this coat coloration is refered to as? It is a predominately light brown body with dark edges to the ears and a patch of darker hair on the rump. The darker patch is much more pronounced when they are young and gradually fades somewhat with age, but remains visible into adulthood.
I know others have had to have produced this coat color, so I figure the mice community has a term for it.
I've never paid much attention to types of mice and am completely unfamiliar with any of the terms for the different varietes.

I'll relate how this color popped up in my colony.
I keep a fairly decent sized colony of mice, 125 breeders or so normally, but they are all white. I was fortunate in acquiring a strain of mice that routinely has large litters, 18-20 being common.
Since I do have snakes periodically, usually a hatchling ball, that refuses white mice, I also keep one or two tubs with a colored male to produce some brown offspring to have on hand.
Any babies produced by the brown males are kept strictly segregated from the main colony so as not to introduce outside genes and potentially interfere with the production of the large litters.

The original colored mice were the standard dark brown or black, and all the colored young produced were these colors as well. Colored young were raised to replace the older breeders, and this resulted in a generation of inbreeding. During this generation two of these light colored males were produced.
I raised them up because I liked their color and thought I'd play with the genes a little just for fun since I needed to breed a few colored ones anyway.
The two males were placed with 3 white females each. The idea was that a white female wouldn't interfere with the light colored male passing on his colored genes. At this point I assumed that any colored offspring produced would look like the fathers.
After 6 or 8 litters from each male, no young had been produced that looked like the fathers. All the colored young were either black or very dark brownish.

I then fed off all the white females in these groups and raised some of their dark colored daughters to breed back to the males. The second litter produced 3 babies with the coloration of the fathers. Black babies were also produced.
So it appears at this point that the light coat with dark highlights is a recessive trait.

The original light males as well as their dark daughters are all carrying the albino gene as well, so white babies are still being produced.
I've never taken a particular interest in the feeders before, but I think I'll play with these genes a little further until I can isolate it and breed out the albino genes so that all the offspring will be colored as these are.

Here is a picture of one of the adult males. The flash washed out some of the dark patch on his rump, but you can still tell it's there. His patch seems to have faded a little more than his brother.
 

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Here's a pic of the first young to exhibit the trait. They are the product of the original light male bred to one of his dark colored daughters.
The original males looked just like this when they were this age.
 

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Clay,

Here is a link to the American Fancy Rat and Mouse Association:AFRMA. About Midway down the page they start to give links to picture page describing many varieties of fancy mice. I would imagine you could contact them for more info on what your mice have produced.

All the best,
Glenn B
 
Wow, that's interesting. I didn't know there were that many varieties of mice. Those might be considered gourmet food.
There's some neat looking ones though, even if they all look the same coming out of a snake's butt. :dgrin:

I may drop someone there an email. None of their pictured varieties are exactly what I have. They may not take kindly to me though if they notice my email address. The real mouse fanciers are not known for their appreciation of snake breeding haha.
 
Were these produced from the mice you bought from out here? Just wondering, as the petshop I worked for buys from the same guy and they have an awful lot of mice that look like yours....
 
No, everything I got from him was the white mice. They only produce more whites.
They're the ones that routinely drop 18+ babies.

The dark colored mice thet went on to produce these came from TN as part of a trade 6 months before I came to your place. They only produce around 10 per litter at most.
 
They must have colored ones mixed in at the petshop from another source then...but they do hold back some from the same strain as yours for breeders too though....lots of babies! I'm glad they're doing well for you...
 
I had a hard time seeing the pictures clearly enough on my work computer, I'll try to check out this thread when I get home to my much better computer monitor.... But I can tell you a lot about the color if you will "blow" the mice.... blow on their fur so it is blown back towards their head, and tell me if the color underneath the surface is lighter or darker than the surface color. If it is the same color, this means that you probably have a burmese mouse.

Burmese mice are c(ch)/c(h).... which are variants of the albino gene. C is non-albino, and c is albino. There are a number of alleles in the mouse fancy... a mouse that is c(ch)/c(ch) is chinchilla in color... it's like an anery gene in snakes... dilutes all but the blacks, whites, and grays. a c(h)/c(h) mouse is a siamese mouse, light beige with dark nose, ears, feet, and tail base. c(ch)/c(h) is a more normal colored mouse, but with dark nose, ears, feet, tail (sometimes)... this is an acromelanic trait which results in a darkening of the extremities, the colder parts, of the animal. There is also c(e) which is an extreme dilution gene, sort of like Hypo in cornsnakes... it dilutes color, and in combination with albino usually results in a black eyed white mouse. I have a whole paper on my website that relates to the C-locus on mice.

Mousedom

If when you blow on the mice you get a lighter or a darker undercoat then I would have to ask more pertinent questions. I always love to discuss genetics on mice... I'm still a relative newbie when it comes to snake genetics, but mouse genetics, I feel like i'm a fairly knowledgable individual.
 
Every now and then I think of breeding them again, but all I can remember is that my wife detests the smell of male mouse pee. It does get pretty strong in almost no time at all. I was cleaning tanks twice a week and she wanted them out anyhow. Every now and then I get to keep a few for awhile, but not often.

When I did breed feeders quite a few years ago, I once wanted to order some fancy mice for a breeding project, and as pets, not for use as snake food. Somehow the discussion got around to me owning snakes and the person refused to sell me any mice. Go figure. I never ordered the mice. Of course since you are showing an interest in genetics that was obviously ongoing before you contacted them, maybe they will relent and give you the info you want. My guess is they probably have a name for what you have, but who knows, maybe it is a new variety,

Best regards,
Glenn B
 
I quit breeding rodents years ago for just those reasons. Ten gallon tanks and water bottles were a big pain and the smell was bad.
Now though, they are kept in a rack with auto feeders and watering system, and live in an out building.
I did attempt to move them inside for the winter, but that lasted about 3 weeks. Even with cleaning the entire rack every three days, the smell began to permeate the house.
I framed up an insulated room within the building and heated it for the mice.

It's really worth the effort though, and I hope to never be without my mouse colony again. I produce between 500 and 700 mice per month from my colony, and not having to buy them along with the ready availability of all sizes is great.
 
Pretty impressive sounding set up. Maybe after I retire, and move to an area better suited I can do likewise. For now I just settle for a pair or trio of already pregnant females (no where near as smelly as males) to help out with some pinkies. My collection of snakes is dwindling as each month goes by, trying to cut back. Although I guess I'll be buying some frozen pinks soon, my Baird's ratsnake Female just laid seven eggs last night.
 
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