Msherps

[Chris@TSE]

wah wah wah, I did it but it's not my fault and some of you would have and do but haven't been caught and other worse guys are out there doing worse things.

the force is strong with this one.......

 

[Wilomn]

wah wah wah, I did it but it's not my fault and some of you would have and do but haven't been caught and other worse guys are out there doing worse things.

Dang it, hit the wrong button.

To continue

Excuses and justifications.

Regardless of what you SAY you were doing, which is suspect at best, you're leaving because THIS time you got caught.

YOU, just you, brought this on yourself.

Does NO ONE accept responsibility anymore?

Apparently it is rare indeed that they do and here, once again, it is sadly lacking.

Ponder that whilst improving your golf game.

 

[reptilebreeder]

This guy Mike B. is perhaps the most intelligent and dedicated young man I ever seen in the business and he got caught doing something perhaps any of us would have done if we were not able to pay our bills on time and had to work through college. .

You know Dan in all those other threads I could not believe all the people were attacking you, you were the one who got shipped a dead animal, Yet you had so many red boxes, and I could not understand it. Well, you should have quit while you were ahead.
First of all, say "youwould have done it had you been in the situation" if you believe you don't have any morals or ethics, but it is very offensive to say any of "us" would have done the same thing. I call BS. Secondly, have you read his posts? It's obvious he didn't do it to "feed his family", he did it (in his own arrogant words), to have animals no one else had (no one who respects the laws, anyway).
Lastly, everyone here who is still sticking up for him, I can kind of see how you may have some issues with not agreeing with the laws he broke, but to dismiss his arrogance, and his disdain for all us "little fish" is bewildering to me. Maybe, by being on his side you think that puts you in the "big fish", "more important than anybody", and "know all the big breeders" catagory. I don't know.

 

[reptilebreeder]

P.S.
Particularly to Bruce, but also the pimp, and Dan. I mention particularly Bruce, because he made mention of the fact that he's a life long Democrat who has different views than some people. I have a friend of 30 years, who is a "card carrying" liberal..........................you know, went to UC Berkeley, uses only a Mac computer, etc. :laugh: and we often have debates, and also often disagree about many things, "unjust" laws, being one of them, YET, he still believes that disagree or not, they are still laws, and as such you should morally and ethically obey the laws. If you break the laws you should face the consequences, and try to change the laws you don't agree with.
That said, I could understand if your (any of you) "stance" was "I disagree with the law protecting certain species, and so I feel sorry for Mike, and will forgive him, and/or understand why he did it" or something to that effect, but I'm just bewildered by your near of the guy. I mean to say that he is still the "most ethical, stand up guy, I know" etc. seems to defy the very definitions you use to describe the guy, especially given his arrogance.
just wondering to myself out loud, I guess.

 

[brucestephenson]

Reptilebreeder

We will just have to disagree about such issues. I am not going to change my views on this, and you aren't either. It is my view that bad laws should be opposed and fought. Just fifty years ago, it was against the law for me, a half breed, to drink at your water fountain (assuming you are white.)

 

[pch101]

Apples to oranges Bruce. Not the same thing, and not the same time. We are talking about current laws that are in place to PROTECT the wildlife that greedy people would otherwise exploit to extinction. Most of the importers will import a species for as long as they can. As long as the cash is rolling in, they do not know how to say no. I support these laws. This is not the same as your outdated half breed law. There is a big difference here.

 

[brucestephenson]

I'm afraid that's all I have to say on this subject for a while. Thank you all for the most stimulating conversation that I have had on the BOI in a long, long time! See ya, everyone!

 

[Jim O]

James,

I think that Bruce was simply making a point about laws and how things evolve and how we should fight what we perceive as injustices.

That said, Bruce would always have been welcome at the table in the house that I grew up in no matter his racial or ethnic background, and would be today. I grew up in the post-Holocaust era and my parents, particularly my father, tolerated no intolerance of that type. But ma father also would have quickly put Mike B in his place for being an arrogant little boy who thinks he knows everything. To me his character is far worse than his crimes. I think he will have learned some respect for the law by two years from now. I only hope that he grows up and learns some humility. I have my doubts about that but it is possible.

Anyone who says "you would probably like me but I wouldn't like you" has a bit to learn about human relations. JMHO.

 

[pch101]

"I think that Bruce was simply making a point about laws and how things evolve and how we should fight what we perceive as injustices."

Yes Jim, I realize what he was saying all too well. However, it is quite apparent form his posts here and on other threads (Tom Crutchfield for starters) that he perceives the wildlife laws as injustices, when they are actually there to protect the wildlife that we are supposed to care about. I definitely disagree with his view in regard to the role our wildlife laws play in conservation. There is a bigger picture here than the "I want it so I should be able to have it" mentality that many people seem to exhibit. He is comparing racial laws to Wildlife laws. His ethnicity is not the issue here. Most citizens (including myself) of the USA are muts/mixes of one kind or another. That is just one of the things that makes this country great.

 

[Dan Scolaro]

John:

Quit while I was ahead? Ahead of what? Perhaps it was all taken too personal and I do not even know what a green or red box means and its not important to me as I learned that a self-confessed criminal turned my red and nothing was ever done about it, so it does not matter.

Perhaps I was too understandable of his reactions and words based on my experiences in life and being in a position to hand down punitive actions, and its has nothing to do with morals and ethics, it has to do with compassion and humanity. You know, you cannot even help someone who is down on this forum without every sentence being analyzed until the cows come home or someone speculating wrongly that all because you want to help someone your a bad person. Guess that is why perhaps so many people avoid helping each other but are rather alert and quick to kick someone when they are down.

 

[Chris@TSE]

We will just have to disagree about such issues. I am not going to change my views on this, and you aren't either. It is my view that bad laws should be opposed and fought. Just fifty years ago, it was against the law for me, a half breed, to drink at your water fountain (assuming you are white.)

What the hell?

What does an act of ignorance have to do with laws governing the safety and protection of endangered and protected species?

Bruce, I respect many of your views, but you'll need to do better that this.

I'd expect better from a used volvo salesman........

 

[reptilebreeder]

. It is my view that bad laws should be opposed and fought. Just fifty years ago, it was against the law for me, a half breed, to drink at your water fountain (assuming you are white.)

Well, Since you are vacating this thread, I guess I"ll publicly think to myself out loud again

I've never asked my friend I mentioned to change his views, nor has he asked me, we would have stopped being friends 29 years ago if that was the case.
Two points;
One, I'm not asking you to change your views (the overall view that some laws in your mind, are unjust, and need to be fought) I can understand when some choose things like civil disobedience, or even purposely breaking a law, if they do it for the right reasons ie. such as for moral beliefs, and they do it with the intent to make these "unjust" laws go throught the court system, usually in such instances they break the law with public forwarning or have their lawyer with them for example, to bring this "unjust" law to the publics eye. While I understand it, I don't agree with it.
The reason I can't "understand" your position in these instances, is that these people did it for selfish reasons, they did it because they "wanted animals no one else had" (re; law abiding people) or they did it for money. Purely selfish, greedy motivation. They are not by any definition martyr's, which is the status you seem to give them, when you go beyond "they made a mistake, and I'm a forgiving person" to, "they are still honorable, great heros to worship". That's what I'm trying to "understand".

And Second, as Pch101 mentioned, these are not unjust laws infringing on someones civil rights, or laws against smoking "harmless" pot. These are laws put in place to protect animals. Sure some of them are stupid, but most people would not think they rise to the level of "drastic measures" such as the martyr example I mentioned above (again mentioning that even if by some stretch of the imagination you feel these are important enough bad laws to be "actionable" that Mike doesn't come close to having done it for the right reasons).

And third (okay, I was wrong not two points, but three). I can "somewhat" understand your position on Crutchfield, after all he has done his time AND he is a very knowledgable herper, with decades of participation in the hobby, who did contribute some things to this hobby, but this guy, wow, did you read his posts? He's the most arrogant, self professed herp god, who though he is only 20 years old is apparently the biggest thing (or bigger) to the herp world since Betchel, or the Barkers, or Porras (who BTW, made a name for himself as a premier importer with awesome animals, legally), and we're suppose to thank him for Diamond Pythons, Bearded Dragons, etc .
Okay done with my "thinking". No hard feelings, just don't understand.

 

[brucestephenson]

I'm packing up my toys and goin' home. I'm tired of playing with you guys. You got me all worn out! See Ya!

 

[DAND]

I'm packing up my toys and goin' home. I'm tired of playing with you guys. You got me all worn out! See Ya!

 

[brucestephenson]

Excellent DAND! Just what I was trying to say! Can I use the picture the next time I get tired from playing with pch101, Topshelf, and reptilebreeder?

 

[brucestephenson]

Excellent DAND! Just what I was trying to say! Can I use the picture the next time I get tired from playing with pch101, Topshelf, and reptilebreeder?

aka​

The Triple Threat​

 

[reptilebreeder]

Okay, I won't "play" with you anymore.
Well, one last time.........You're sig should say "Bruce Stephenson - Sith Lord" and your avatar should be a "darth" I'd suggest vader, since he was both good and bad. Brought balance to the force, I guess.

 

[pch101]

Bruce, I am honored to be listed with such great company as Chris (Topshelf) and John (reptilebreeder). Thanks for that.

 

[DAND]

Don't...

...forget to...

 

[Jim O]

Yes, to club fed. LOL David!