My Experience with SPJ / Steve Jordanides

[hhmoore]

I started skimming after the first couple posts.
RJK - I will go on the record right now as saying you are full of it. I spoke with you in chat BEFORE you ever bought those two snakes. I told you that Lucky was a CH and unproven, AND gave you the link(s?) to the thread(s?) Steve had posted about him. You acknowledged to me that YOU WERE ALREADY AWARE OF THOSE THINGS.
I don't recall whether you paid $1100 or $1000 (though I think it was the latter), but given prices at the time, you pretty much paid for the female lesser and got Lucky as a bonus.

I've had a couple of transactions with Steve, and wouldn't think twice about purchasing from him. I would also recommend him to others without hesitation.
(sorry for bumping this crap up, Steve, but I wanted to add a little more reality to things)

 

[RJK890]

SPJ:

Funny Rob. On 7/28/08 you posted this thread showing off your collection when you got back on fauna after your suspension.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/for...296&page=1&pp=5
Guess what? Lucky and the lesser you got from me are posted. Now on 7/31/08, all of a sudden you are not happy with them (especially Lucky) but will not let me give you money to buy him back to try and make you happy about the deal.

I was always happy with the .1 Lesser. $200 for a breedable snake that I cared for, and fed for a year, that you assured me is a Genetic Phantom . Not to mention a little late. That is just a little bit lower than Anthony McCain is selling his hatchlings for. That apology for calling me a liar would work, but I would rather it was done in PM, or by email. The telehone would be even better. Somehow I just don't think I'll ever get that call. You really don't get why I was unsatisfied, and have excused the tumor and everything else by the fact that I got a good price.

I still say there was an alterior motive to what transpired today.
Anyone ever tell you that you can give a person a serious headache?

Your reply to my PM is what transpired today. I am sick of you treating me like crap as your customer, and tired of the hypocrisy.

 

[jasballs]

This thread is only 4 hours old.

But, This is a bogus thread!

 

[Serafim]

SPJ:

Your reply to my PM is what transpired today. I am sick of you treating me like crap as your customer, and tired of the hypocrisy.

Did you type that with a straight face?

 

[dsirkle]

But, This is a bogus thread!

I agree John. See post#56

 

[RJK890]

Quote Harald:
RJK - I will go on the record right now as saying you are full of it. I spoke with you in chat BEFORE you ever bought those two snakes. I told you that Lucky was a CH and unproven, AND gave you the link(s?) to the thread(s?) Steve had posted about him. You acknowledged to me that YOU WERE ALREADY AWARE OF THOSE THINGS.

With all due respect Harald, You should read instead of skimming. I did speak with you in chat before I ever bought those snakes and was aware that Lucky was a CH and unproven line. I spoke to Steve and he assured me that he was genetic. I don't remember you posting the links, but I was on my dads computer and he had a pop up blocker anyway. I do remember that you did not want to talk about it much, and told me I should talk to Steve, until I told you that I had already been told in chat by somebody else and tallked to Steve about it. I remember you saying that you could not beleive that he was calling it a Phantom in a Lucy package as well.

I don't recall whether you paid $1100 or $1000 (though I think it was the latter), but given prices at the time, you pretty much paid for the female lesser and got Lucky as a bonus.

I am pretty sure it was $1100, and may have been a great price. That does not excuse everything.

If I were to sell a 1. Lesser and a .1 Mojo for $600 as a Lucy Package, which is a good price on the Lesser and the mojo is a bonus, and it the Mojo is DOA or something is it excused because of the great price I gave, or the fact that the mojo was basically a bonus? It is not a Lucy Package anymore. I do understand that it's apples and oranges but I am tired and that is all I've got. Goodnight.

 

[Ed Clark]

I purchased a .1 Lesser and 1. Phantom from Steve as a Blue Eyed Lucy package.
I don't believe he ever mentioned that the 1. Phantom was an unproven line in the ad, but I could be wrong. It wasn't until after sharing my excitement about about my intentions to purchase them in chat that another member of fauna told me he was an unproven animal and may not produce a Blue Eyed Lucy.

When I asked Steve about it he told me that it was a CH import, but that he was sure that it is a genetic Phantom, and that it would produce a Blue Eyed Lucy when bred to the .1 Lesser.

I was nervous about receiving my first CH animal, I asked Steve if the CH Phantom had been treated for internal parasites and if he had fecal testing done.
Steve said "yes, he is clean inside and out," and said that you would send the vet report.

I received the vet reports several weeks after receiving the snakes, and after giving Steve positive feedback on the transaction. The vet report stated that the snake was treated with panacur as a precaution, but never stated that any fecal tests were done.

The report also stated that the snake had a "tumor" the size of a large pea in the cloaca area which Steve had not mentioned prior. I was kinda upset that Steve had not disclosed some pretty important information prior to the sale.

When I contacted Steve about it, he said that the tumor had been removed and that the snake had eaten, and crapped. He offered me a $100 refund(minus shipping fee's) if I wanted to ship the animal back to him. How's that for generous. He said that the history of the CH Phantom("Lucky") was all over the forums. Like it was my responsibility to have seen it, and not His responsibility to disclose it to me as a customer.

They both arrived with mites, and are the only two snakes in my current collection that have ever had them. Those two snakes were the only two animals in my 1-3 month quarantine room at the time, and were housed separately in rwo brand new 6qt. sterilite's on newspaper and a paper towel. That room is at a seperate location then my 3-6 month quarantine room, and my main collection.

I think it was wrong of Steve not to disclose the info. prior to the sale, but I know that he needed the money from the sale to fix the roof on his home. As far as the mites go, maybe he treated them but didn't break the egg cycle? From what I have read, that is common with CH, and even happens with CBB. It was the tumor removed from the animals cloaca that he did not tell me about that pissed me off.

All these lies were told to you because Steve needed a new roof ?

Only the lowest of the low would tell you HE WAS SURE a CH was a genetic morph that was reproducible.

And to not disclose a tumor in 1 of the snakes is a terrible thing!

And he sent you a no charge extra like MITES.

I guess the need for money will turn a guy like Steve Jordanides into a low life scumbag real quick.

 

[John E Dove]

Only if someone is stupid enough to believe Kelly.

 

[lillyorchid]

Only if someone is stupid enough to believe Kelly.

LMAO yup. Looks like Ed is that person. I'm not surprised at all.

 

[lillyorchid]

Well Rob thank you so much for the entertainment tonight. It's been a great show and holy cow did I need those laughs.

Steve I wish you the best and hope you have some Advil or maybe some hard liquor around your house. You're gonna need it to clear that head ache this lowlife has given ya.

 

[hhmoore]

You're right - I didn't feel it was my place to go into those details, so I didn't detail the initial problem with the snake...but I did give you a link to the information.

I may well have been surprised that Steve was advertising it as a Phantom at that point - I don't know diddly about BP morphs, and would be hesitant to label a CH baby anything. It is also rare that I look at the BP classifieds (haven't paid much attention since I bought my last spider in 06 - I've got the animals I want, and have no further interest), and I can't say that I recall any details about that ad. Did he label it as a Lucy package?? Or did he offer up the possibility of what the pairing could produce if Lucky proved to be a Phantom? I'm not going to quibble on this matter, as I couldn't even respond to whether a Phantom x Lesser would produce a Lucy, or even what a Phantom looks like. I know I don't know, and I'm not going to pretend I do.

I'm not using the price as an excuse for anything - your analogy aside, you received 2 healthy animals: 1 - the lesser female, and 2 - a male that you acknowledged was CH, that may or may not be something special (isn't that part of the fun with BP people? the thrill of the chase, the hope of finding something special?). My only point was that while you (technically) were taking a chance on Lucky's genetics, given the selling price it wasn't really a gamble.

 

[SPJ]

Thanks Ed for jumping in. I took a break and come back to see your lovely post.

For the record. I told Rob it was a CH animal that I felt very strongly about being genetic. I did not guarentee it like he now claims. I told him what I thought of it as well as what a few others who saw the animal thought of it. I purposely picked up a female lesser to pair with him. That's how strongly I felt about him.
Crap happened and I needed a new roof ASAP. I sold several animals all within the same week that Rob bought these 2. He is the only one to complain.
What else do you think I can do?
I gave you a damn good price on that pair because I had to sell them quick.
I offered to buy back Lucky for more than what you paid for him to make up for the feeding bill.
What about the fact that you inquired about the pastel and spider I listed AFTER you got these animals? If I am so terrible, why would you even consider another purchase?
Now you claim he is genetic so you won't sell him back and infer that you would want me to give you the $3K that proven ones are listed for to buy him back to make you happy. That sounds like extortion to me.
There is NO pleasing you. You blindside people on the BOI with BS allegations.
Regarding an apology, no I will not apologize to you. You made up this mite situation and attempted to make me look like a bad guy.
I disclosed EVERYTHING about the history on the snakes you bought so don't even try and say I didn't.

 

[Otter_23]

All these lies were told to you because Steve needed a new roof ?

Only the lowest of the low would tell you HE WAS SURE a CH was a genetic morph that was reproducible.

I don't know it seems even lower to basically get that snake for free and then want 3k for for a genetically unproven morph that hasn't been reproduced. So if you think Steve is low I can't imagine what you think about Rob.

 

[Otter_23]

Sorry that was redundant but you get the point.

 

[Cat_72]

This has to be one of the most ridiculous, transparent threads I've ever seen on the BOI.

I would not hesitate to buy from or sell to Steve, he's a good guy who truly cares about his animals....reading the threads Steve posted all about how Lucky's blockage (not a tumor, duh) was taken care of and how well he progressed.

Rob, you fit right in with the scum you've aligned yourself with. Sad.

 

[Cat_72]

I would not hesitate to buy from or sell to Steve, he's a good guy who truly cares about his animals....reading the threads Steve posted all about how Lucky's blockage (not a tumor, duh) was taken care of and how well he progressed.

That SHOULD be followed with *is all it takes to see how much he truly does care*.

Sheesh.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

With all due respect Harald, You should read instead of skimming. I did speak with you in chat before I ever bought those snakes and was aware that Lucky was a CH and unproven line. I spoke to Steve and he assured me that he was genetic.

ITS A CH. THEY ARENT GENETIC UNTIL PROVEN. Anyone who does ANY research before they buy KNOWS that. Just because steve THOUGHT it might be genetic, saying " Im sure its genetic" ( which to ME sounds like an EXPRESSION) He didnt say IT IS 100% guaranteed genetic.

You are FULL of it. Goddamn piss me off. Ive SEEN steves snakes in person, and they are 100% CLEAN, HEALTHY animals.

You vindictive little rat.

 

[NorthernRegius.com]

Here's what I know...

My Assoc. & I got a FANTASTIC girl from Steve, proven breeder too! The only reason he parted with her was because she was a "live" feeder... well until she got here that is... (had to do it Steve).

The snake was well packaged, mite-free, & fed 2 days after arriving. She gave a fantastic 9 egg clutch this Spring with 2.3 Pastels. She's even bigger now than when she got here & will be ready for this breeding season.

I'd buy from him again with full confidence.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

I don't know it seems even lower to basically get that snake for free and then want 3k for for a genetically unproven morph that hasn't been reproduced. So if you think Steve is low I can't imagine what you think about Rob.

I seem to remember some ads... Stating something was a morph *and no other info posted AT ALL*, but then those got changed real quick once people questioned them.... I wonder who could have posted them. Hrmmm.

 

[RJK890]

Extortion?

Quote Otter_23:
I don't know it seems even lower to basically get that snake for free and then want 3k for for a genetically unproven morph that hasn't been reproduced. So if you think Steve is low I can't imagine what you think about Rob.

I never asked Steve for $3k. I simply said that after the way he treated me as a customer, do you think that I would let him give me $200 for a breedable(hopefully) 1. CH "Phantom" if it is genetic like he assured me it was.
I was a newbie to keeping BP's at the time and was just learning terms like CH, WC, CBB, Co dominant, etc. I took Steve's word. You know what, maybe it is what he said it was.
I am well aware that the snake is not valued at $3k. I have offered it in trades to a few people, valuing it at $225. I also went over all of the details in my first post of this thread. I let the people that I was offering the animal know that the animal was a CH unproven line, had a "tumor" removed, and was shipped to me with mites.
I was very unhappy about this all along. This post was made the same day that I PM'd Steve about this transaction yet again, and he as usual called me a liar, and said that I was aware of the snakes history.
Maybe some well respected members here can confirm that I had discussed this transaction with them, and my unsatisfaction with SPJ. That would be John Dvortez, Ben Cole, and several others. However, I understand if they won't. I was not going to put it on the BOI, but had shared my bad experience with SPJ by word of mouth.
Sure he may not have given me paperwork or even a guarantee, but when I asked him about it being an unproven line his words were I assure you that it is genetic and will produce a Lucy when bred to the .1 Lesser.
I knew that I would get this response to posting this info because Steve is a member of the pack. This is what I was talking about when I posted the post that got me suspended in Jasballs "good guy" thread that got me my 30 day suspension.
I would quote it here but do not want to risk offending Rich Z, or having him take it as a slap in his face, or at this site. I do like Faunaclassifieds and would like to avoid that per manant ban if at all possible.