My Experience with SPJ / Steve Jordanides

[Mooing Tricycle]

but when I asked him about it being an unproven line his words were I assure you that it is genetic and will produce a Lucy when bred to the .1 Lesser.

Got Proof?

 

[hhmoore]

Sure he may not have given me paperwork or even a guarantee, but when I asked him about it being an unproven line his words were I assure you that it is genetic and will produce a Lucy when bred to the .1 Lesser.

Steve? Is that what you said to him?...and, is that what was said to you?

I knew that I would get this response to posting this info because Steve is a member of the pack. This is what I was talking about when I posted the post that got me suspended in Jasballs "good guy" thread that got me my 30 day suspension.

I think there is a bit more to it, but believe what you will. Steve has a good history here and, while that doesn't give him any kind of free pass, I (for one)am not going to disregard what I know of him without evidence. My posts here are based upon my personal interactions with both of you, at and around the time of this transaction. You asked me in chat if I had seen the snake & what I thought of it (including if I thought it was a phantom, I think); so I know that you were aware that it was CH, and that there was no guarantee that the snake was a phantom. I also know that you were told by me that the snake had a bit of history, and that you were given a link to the thread which described that history - including the resolution (which should indicate that it wasn't a tumor). If you chose not to followup on that information, I don't know what to tell you .

This next comment doesn't necessarily carry a lot of weight, because we all know that mites can happen...and, when they do, they spread and multiply quickly, but I was at Steve's a short time before this sale took place. I looked at most, if not all of his snakes, and didn't see any mites. I'll admit that I wasn't carefully examining them - and I'm pretty sure that I didn't handle Lucky (I don't feel a need to hold random snakes, unless I am examining something prior to purchase).

I know that you have expressed your unhappiness a few times via PM to Steve, that at some point (possibly more than one time) he offered to take/buy the snake back. I know that he has become increasingly frustrated with some of your comments.

I also know that he was excitedly passing pictures of Lucky around to some different people, including a couple of the Big Guns of the BP game. I remember when he told me it was a Phantom (and I THINK I remember the other name in that discussion, but I am not positive so I'm not posting it).

Maybe there is a missing ingredient....something I don't know. Based upon my experiences at the time, I kind of figured that you were just a pain in the ass, and were trying to make a good deal even better by getting some money back on the deal.
If either of you has the rundown of emails & PMs that have taken place from the start - I (and, I suspect, others) would like to see them.



Usually, I am a firm believer in deleting old and sold ads...but when a situation like this comes along, I can't help but think it is better to just lock them. At least that way, it is still there for reference when an accusation is made.

 

[Laura Fopiano]

Usually, I am a firm believer in deleting old and sold ads...but when a situation like this comes along, I can't help but think it is better to just lock them. At least that way, it is still there for reference when an accusation is made.

And that is exactly why I keep all emails and pm's for every purchase and or sale that I make. I have special folders set up on each and every deal. I still have folders on some of animals that I no longer have that may some day be needed for the history on them. I do this for situations like this.

I know very little about breeding bp's, I have 3 of them. I wouldn't know a phantom is one was dropped on my head, however, I do trust Steve, he is an active member of a few forums that I frequent. He is proud to post information, pictures, and ask for advice. These are all qualities that I would call a good guy.

 

[Junkyard]

Excuse me as I go flush my toilet...


Okay, Robert, how many times have you contacted Steve through calls, pms, or e-mails since the beginning of this whole transaction up to the time you decided to post this yesterday?

 

[varnyard]

Robert, put the crack pipe down and stay away from that stuff.

And for the record Robert, you have been supporting more then a few known proven scumbags, and this attack on Steve is just uncalled for.

I have dealt with Steve many, many times, he is one of the best there is in our hobby. I have sold to him, as well as bought from him, every time was a real pleasure.

Your actions on the other hand Robert are questionable at best.

 

[SPJ]

Rob, you are amazing.
I really like the part where you say you contacted Jon.
I myself contacted Jon when I first got that snake. It stood out like a sore thumb against all the other BP's in the group. His words were "it does look phantomish". Anthony McCain saw photos and thought it looked like his mystics. He even wanted to sell me a female mystic to breed to him at a great price but I passed on it at the time. Also, Harlin at W to W thought it was good chance that it was a phantom. Based on these correspondence and reseraching mystics and phantoms myself, I felt that there was a good chance he was an animal that could produce a BEL and proceeded to purchase a female lesser. I never once told you that I guarenteed it was genetic. I told you I was very confident in it. You asked me what I would sell the lesser for by herself. I told you it was the same price with or without Lucky since these animals were to go as a pair only because I didn't have anything to breed to the lesser if only she was sold since the only reason I bought her was for this specific pairing.

You have contacted me 3 times now via PM and then posted this thread on the BOI.

The first time you contacted me was when you had a question about the vet report stating tumor when I said to you as the time of purchase that it was a blockage. I explained everything to you stating the vet didn't know what it was and just wrote that in the file. That was all. I thought you were now OK with the deal and you left me a positive trader rating. I was polite in that email.

The second time heard from you was a month ago when you called me a hypocrite for posting on the Big Daddy thread saying that I sold you a snake with a tumor. I replied again stating we went thru all of this and it wasn't a tumor and still offered to buy him back if you were not happy. You never replied. This is when I started to get frustrated with you.

The third time you contacted me was yesterday after posting on the Joe Capone thread (do you see the pattern here?) You once again called me a hypocrite and stated I sold you a snake with a tumor (how many friggin times do I need to go over this with you?) and now added the mite accusation.
That was it. I had had it with you and sent back a PM saying you are full of it.

You didn't reply and then proceeded to make this thread.

I am going to say this one last time. I will send you $250 to buy Lucky. That is $200 (for a snake you got free in the deal) and $50 to cover shipping.

There was no tumor and there were no mites.

For anyone interested, this is the photo I sent around asking for opinions on Lucky.

 

[nextworld3]

I never asked Steve for $3k. I simply said that after the way he treated me as a customer, do you think that I would let him give me $200 for a breedable(hopefully) 1. CH "Phantom" if it is genetic like he assured me it was.
I was a newbie to keeping BP's at the time and was just learning terms like CH, WC, CBB, Co dominant, etc. I took Steve's word. You know what, maybe it is what he said it was.
I am well aware that the snake is not valued at $3k. I have offered it in trades to a few people, valuing it at $225. I also went over all of the details in my first post of this thread. I let the people that I was offering the animal know that the animal was a CH unproven line, had a "tumor" removed, and was shipped to me with mites.
I was very unhappy about this all along. This post was made the same day that I PM'd Steve about this transaction yet again, and he as usual called me a liar, and said that I was aware of the snakes history.
Maybe some well respected members here can confirm that I had discussed this transaction with them, and my unsatisfaction with SPJ. That would be John Dvortez, Ben Cole, and several others. However, I understand if they won't. I was not going to put it on the BOI, but had shared my bad experience with SPJ by word of mouth.
Sure he may not have given me paperwork or even a guarantee, but when I asked him about it being an unproven line his words were I assure you that it is genetic and will produce a Lucy when bred to the .1 Lesser.
I knew that I would get this response to posting this info because Steve is a member of the pack. This is what I was talking about when I posted the post that got me suspended in Jasballs "good guy" thread that got me my 30 day suspension.
I would quote it here but do not want to risk offending Rich Z, or having him take it as a slap in his face, or at this site. I do like Faunaclassifieds and would like to avoid that per manant ban if at all possible.

I dont really like being dragged into a pissing match... I have no problem posting about Joe C, but this normal garbage (thats what this thread is) is not for me.

I will say that Rob did contact me about this animal a couple of months back... i honestly cant remeber the details of the conversation. I think you may have offered it to me?

I will say that from the photo posted above it does look like a Mystic... ( which i personally hope turns out not to be a phantom... sorry just my opinion) I am not the expert on Phantoms, i might be able to do an accurate guide on them, but i dont think im there yet. If the three animals i have prove out next year, then i would.

I will also say... Rob, that this thread has some bad timing and seems a little odd... ( and im NOT one of the normal BOI guys)

How much did you pay for the questionable Phantom / Mystic ch?

 

[SPJ]

How much did you pay for the questionable Phantom / Mystic ch?

Sorry you got dragged in Jon., You are one of the good guys and the only reason I mentioned you was to rebutt Rob.

He paid zero, nada, zip for that animal.
It was included as a package deal with the female lesser he bought. I added that in with it to sweeten the deal on the ad I posted since without the lesser, I couldn't do what I wanted with him and to increase the odds of a sale to raise cash quickly.

 

[RJK890]

Quote John:
I will say that Rob did contact me about this animal a couple of months back... i honestly cant remeber the details of the conversation. I think you may have offered it to me?

Yeah John, Sorry to drag you into this.
I did contact you a couple of months back and offer you this snake along with a list of "extra" animals that don't necessarily have a place in my breeding collection, for trade. Like I said I valued this snake at somewhere around $225 in the offer.
I told you about all of the issues that I had with Steve that are posted in my original post in this thread, and let you know the history of this snake. I do understand you not wanting to be dragged into this, and said that I would understand if you did not want to confirm that I had discussed this with you when I posted your name.

Quote SPJ:
Rob, you are amazing.
I really like the part where you say you contacted Jon.
I myself contacted Jon when I first got that snake. It stood out like a sore thumb against all the other BP's in the group. His words were "it does look phantomish". Anthony McCain saw photos and thought it looked like his mystics. He even wanted to sell me a female mystic to breed to him at a great price but I passed on it at the time. Also, Harlin at W to W thought it was good chance that it was a phantom. Based on these correspondence and reseraching mystics and phantoms myself, I felt that there was a good chance he was an animal that could produce a BEL and proceeded to purchase a female lesser. I never once told you that I guarenteed it was genetic. I told you I was very confident in it. You asked me what I would sell the lesser for by herself. I told you it was the same price with or without Lucky since these animals were to go as a pair only because I didn't have anything to breed to the lesser if only she was sold since the only reason I bought her was for this specific pairing.
You have contacted me 3 times now via PM and then posted this thread on the BOI.
The first time you contacted me was when you had a question about the vet report stating tumor when I said to you as the time of purchase that it was a blockage. I explained everything to you stating the vet didn't know what it was and just wrote that in the file. That was all. I thought you were now OK with the deal and you left me a positive trader rating. I was polite in that email.
The second time heard from you was a month ago when you called me a hypocrite for posting on the Big Daddy thread saying that I sold you a snake with a tumor. I replied again stating we went thru all of this and it wasn't a tumor and still offered to buy him back if you were not happy. You never replied. This is when I started to get frustrated with you.
The third time you contacted me was yesterday after posting on the Joe Capone thread (do you see the pattern here?) You once again called me a hypocrite and stated I sold you a snake with a tumor (how many friggin times do I need to go over this with you?) and now added the mite accusation.
That was it. I had had it with you and sent back a PM saying you are full of it.
You didn't reply and then proceeded to make this thread.

I am not going to take the time to dissect this post and correct every untruth. Twist things how you will. There is no pattern, or timing on this thread. I contacted you several times by email, at least twice over the telephone, and three or more times via PM. You never explained anything about a blockage to me until after I called you on the telephone because I was angry about reading of a "tumor" that was removed from the cloaca(That is what the vet report said anyway,) and seeing that there was nothing in the vet report you sent me about any clean fecal test. You were very short and had quite an attitude on the phone. You told me that the mass had been removed, he had eaten and crapped, and that you would give me $100 minus shipping if I wanted to ship him back to you.
I let you know that I purchased them as a Blue Eyed Lucy package because you assured(not guaranteed) me that he would produce a Lucy when bred to the .1 Lesser, and that was not an acceptable resolution. You told me that was the best you were willing to do, and that I should consider it, and that you would think about it some more.
I then contacted you by email and you acted like it had been settled already. You told me I was full of crap, and knew the history of that snake before I purchased him. You again said $100- shipping was the best you would do. I have contacted you a few times just to remind you that even though I had not accepted the offer you made, I was still an unsatisfied customer of yours. Your response was always the same, calling me a liar, and claiming that I knew everything about that snake prior to purchasing it.

Quote John:
How much did you pay for the questionable Phantom / Mystic ch?

I purchased him as one half of a Blue Eyed Lucy Package for $1100.

I am going to say this one last time. I will send you $250 to buy Lucky. That is $200 (for a snake you got free in the deal) and $50 to cover shipping.

No thanks. At this point the only thing that you could do for me would be to get off of your high horse, admit that I am not liar, and apologize for the terrible customer service you provided me with.

Instead you will continue to call me a liar and refuse to accept any responsibility for the issues I had with our transaction. You sure are a "Good Guy," just ask your Friends .

 

[RJK890]

The truth about this transaction, and topic of this thread

The facts:

I purchased a .1 Lesser and 1. Phantom from Steve as a Blue Eyed Lucy package.
I don't believe he ever mentioned that the 1. Phantom was an unproven line in the ad, but I could be wrong. It wasn't until after sharing my excitement about about my intentions to purchase them in chat that another member of fauna told me he was an unproven animal and may not produce a Blue Eyed Lucy.

When I asked Steve about it he told me that it was a CH import, but that he was sure that it is a genetic Phantom, and that it would produce a Blue Eyed Lucy when bred to the .1 Lesser.

Because the Ed Clark/Emily Cook thread was fresh, and I was nervous about receiving my first CH animal, I asked Steve if the CH Phantom had been treated for internal parasites and if he had fecal testing done.
Steve said "yes, he is clean inside and out," and said that he would send the vet report.

I received the vet report several weeks after receiving the snakes, and after giving Steve positive feedback on the transaction. The vet report stated that the snake was treated with panacur as a precaution, but never stated that any fecal tests were done.

The report also stated that the snake had a "tumor" the size of a large pea in the cloaca area which Steve had not mentioned prior to the sale. I was kinda upset that Steve had not disclosed some pretty important information prior to the sale.

When I contacted Steve about it, he said that the tumor had been removed and that the snake had eaten, and crapped. He offered me a $100 refund(minus shipping fee's) if I wanted to ship the animal back to him. How's that for generous. He said that the history of the CH Phantom("Lucky") was all over the forums. Like it was my responsibility to have seen it, and not His responsibility to disclose it to me as a customer.

They both arrived with mites, and are the only two snakes in my current collection that have ever had them. Those two snakes were the only two animals in my 1-3 month quarantine room at the time, and were housed separately in rwo brand new 6qt. sterilite's on newspaper and a paper towel. That room is at a seperate location then my 3-6 month quarantine room, and my main collection.

I think it was wrong of Steve not to disclose the info. prior to the sale, but I know that he needed the money from the sale to fix the roof on his home. As far as the mites go, maybe he treated them but didn't break the egg cycle? From what I have read, that is common with CH, and even happens with CBB. It was the tumor removed from the animals cloaca that he did not tell me about, and that the vet report did not mention any clean fecal test that pissed me off.

I would not label Steve as a "bad guy." I am sure that he is not someone that makes a habit out of selling mite infested CH imports as breeders, without disclosing the fact that they have had tumors removed from their reproductive organs. I am sure I was just the lucky 1 in 1,000 customers that caught him in a tight spot where money was more important to him than his ethics. Maybe.

 

[SPJ]

I will apologize and admit I got the price wrong.
I checked my paypal account and the you paid $1000 shipped for them. It wasn't the $850 I had originally thought. That was a different sale at that time. Sorry for mixing them up.

Sep. 27, 2007 Payment From Joseph Kelly Completed Details $1,000.00 USD -$29.30 USD $970.70 USD

Regarding an apology for anything else, forget it.
You bought these animals in Sept 2007 and You were happy with the deal in Oct 2007.

Great transaction, Thanks Steve. Buyer RJK890 (2) 10-03-2007

Now you are calling me all kinds of different things and making accusations about me and started this thread.

You got 2 incredible animals that were in perfect health for a great price. I believe single female lessers were going for $1200 at the time you made this purchase. You got the lesser for a reduced price and Lucky as a freebie. You were given the entire history on the animal. I sent you the vet papers. I hid nothing from you and I am done with this entire thing.

 

[varnyard]

Steve Quote: Regarding an apology for anything else, forget it.
You bought these animals in Sept 2007 and You were happy with the deal in Oct 2007.

Robert Quote:
Great transaction, Thanks Steve. Buyer RJK890 (2) 10-03-2007

Oh Robert,,,,,,

That said, many times Steve has put something a little extra in the box, I remember a thermostat one time, and two dimmer swiches another time. So I can say without one doubt, Steve gave me a liitle more then I paid for, just as he did you Robert.

 

[RJK890]

Steve:
Regarding an apology for anything else, forget it.
You bought these animals in Sept 2007 and You were happy with the deal in Oct 2007.

Exactly what I expected.

Myself:
Great transaction, Thanks Steve. Buyer RJK890 (2) 10-03-2007

Like I said, the vet report that was supposed to have the clean fecal test results, and did not, but did say that a tumor was removed from his cloaca, which I was unaware of, arrived after I had posted that positive feedback. I was not going to give you a bad guy thread over mites.

 

[RJK890]

Quote Varnyard:
Oh Robert,,,,,,

That said, many times Steve has put something a little extra in the box, I remember a thermostat one time, and two dimmer swiches another time. So I can say without one doubt, Steve gave me a liitle more then I paid for, just as he did you Robert.

You must be referring to the mites...

 

[RJK890]

Oops

Quote Varnyard:
Oh Robert,,,,,,

That said, many times Steve has put something a little extra in the box, I remember a thermostat one time, and two dimmer swiches another time. So I can say without one doubt, Steve gave me a liitle more then I paid for, just as he did you Robert.

You must be referring to the mites...

 

[varnyard]

Exactly what I expected.
Like I said, the vet report that was supposed to have the clean fecal test results, and did not, but did say that a tumor was removed from his cloaca, which I was unaware of, arrived after I had posted that positive feedback. I was not going to give you a bad guy thread over mites.

Oh hogwash Robert, if they would have had mites you would have been trolling fast, just as you are now. You got the snakes and a month later you post good feedback for Steve, that says it all right there.

Now a year later you have a problem with Steve's opinion and start this silly thread, what more is left to say?

 

[varnyard]

You must be referring to the mites...

No, not at all, the only blood sucking parasite here is you.

 

[SPJ]

They both arrived with mites, and are the only two snakes in my current collection that have ever had them. Those two snakes were the only two animals in my 1-3 month quarantine room at the time, and were housed separately in rwo brand new 6qt. sterilite's on newspaper and a paper towel. That room is at a seperate location then my 3-6 month quarantine room, and my main collection.

They DID not have mites otherwise the spider and the pastel I sold at the same time would have had mites as well and THEY DIDN'T. My other animals would have also had mites and guess what....THEY DIDN'T. Not then and not now.

The first time mites were ever mentioned by you was yesterday. I think that is just being used as another thing to attempt to make it look like I send out crap animals and the lame post about me saying "oh well or no big deal or whatever you wrote" is garbage. Maybe you have me confused with EC who seems to think mites are bonus that customers get.

You got mad because I called you out about dealing with scumbags once again.

Throwing stones from a glass house.
You are in every "bad guy" post here in the BOI calling somebody else a scumbag. You even challenged me in at least one thread.Why don't you try holding yourself up to the same standards you apply to everyone else.
Later,
Rob Kelly

You know the only times you have contacted me was when I participated in a thread about a bad seller that you think is great.

Facts:
1. I sold a pair of animals to Rob Kelly in Sept of 2007.

2. There was a conversation regarding the schemantics of the terms used regarding the blockage via PM and I offered to buy it back if he was unhappy. Never heard back from him.

3. I got a positive trader rating from Rob and thought all was fine with the deal and gave him a rating as well.

4. A month ago he sends me a PM saying I am trowing stones from a glass house because I commented on the Big Daddy thread and claims he never knew anything about the history of the CH animal.

5. Yesterday he sends me a PM again saying I am throwing stones from glass houses and claims he never knew the history on the CH animal and now accuses me of sending mite infested snakes as well.

6. I once again offered to buy back the snake to try and make him happy since he obviously is not happy with him (it seems he has been trying to sell and trade him for a while).

 

[lillyorchid]

I am done with this entire thing.

Steve anyone with half a brain who may ever read this thread will be able to tell who the good guy (you) and the puppet scumbag (Robert) are. I think if people keep replying to him he will just keep trying to have the last word.

I say to everyone just let this pointless thread die. Maybe just maybe this puppet will get bored, stop making up lies, and go back under the rock he came from.

 

[Junkyard]

Hey Robert, is there a path report to go along with this tumor? I am curious if the vet wrote down "tumor" and did not have it checked out. Otherwise it is nothing more than an unknown abnormal growth.