Bad Guy My experience with Underground Reptiles

[GMTIRRILL]

Obviously at this point you are unwilling to be apeased by our answer. You are making certain assumptions about the ingredients of the product. You must only be FDA certified when enlisting the use of certain chemicals and mixtures, as this can be read on the FDA website. I also offered anyone, at any time to come in see, and video if they wish, us spraying our own animals with our product. If this does not suffice and you are still convinced this is wrong please contact the proper authorities and do not delay. I do not know how I can assure you any further that nothing illegal is going on. As far as Mrs. Hollowell goes we did everything we could and went above and beyond to appease her, even after she set up the animal incorrectly. As far as providing everyone with care sheets I will definitely take that advice into consideration, but also keep this in mind how does the smaller breeder keep up with such standards, some of which don't even have a website? Also consider that I have bought, for my own personal collection, animals from some of the largest breeders in the country and cannot recall ever receiving a care sheet even when they did not know who I was. I will not comment any further on this matter and thank everyone for their time and opinions.[/QUOTE]

1. I have not maid any assumption to what ingredients are i just asked for full disclosure and that can be done with an ingredient list without amount used.

2. care sheets are easy for a breeder prepare and have on hand its called Microsoft word and a printer, or an already printed supple of them in a folder to be placed in the shipping box as for most breeders they have care info on there website for the person to read. you do not.

3. as a reptile retail store selling to all customers care sheets are not an option they are an obligation that a reputable reptile store should have

 

[chollowell]

I posted the supposed window earlier. Here is a picture of the mite killer they sent and then a picture of the supposed "pine" which is aspen. That I use.

 

[chollowell]

Picture of the substrate I use. And it's not pine.

 

[Pasodama]

shouldn't giving a care sheet with all the need to know fact a must?.

Good customer service should always be a priority and a seller should be willing to help a customer if they have questions.
However, while a providing a care sheet (along with an animal that is purchased/shipped) is a very nice courtesy, and can be helpful, I would not consider it to be a requirement. So, I would not fault a seller if they do not, or did not, provide one.
My opinion is that an adult should have enough common sense, and responsibility, to take it upon themselves to research proper care (or to ask the breeder/seller questions) ~Before~ they purchase an animal. I realize that some people do not fall into that category but, if that is the case, it is not the fault of the breeder/seller.

 

[chollowell]

The snake died within hours of being sprayed with the mite killer I was sent. I sprayed it on him directly just like they told me to do.

 

[ophidile]

I'm not sure what jurisdiction animal products fall under, probably not the FDA. However I don't see why Underground won't disclose their active ingredients, they don't have to say their exact formulation for people to copy just what the major components are. I don't know whether it is legal or not to ship out bottles of unknown chemicals, especially since it was a free in this case, but it certainly seems very questionable.

Watching Underground spray an unknown chemical on to some animals is not "sufficient" for anything, I'm not sure what that's supposed to prove except maybe that the animals don't die within a few minutes after getting sprayed with something.

 

[NIGRO51]

I totally disagree with the caresheet point. Not once have I ever had one even offered to me by anyone that sold me an animal big or small business. It is the consumers responsibility to educate themselves before taking on a new animal.

 

[Serenescales]

Good customer service should always be a priority and a seller should be willing to help a customer if they have questions.
However, while a providing a care sheet (along with an animal that is purchased/shipped) is a very nice courtesy, and can be helpful, I would not consider it to be a requirement. So, I would not fault a seller if they do not, or did not, provide one.
My opinion is that an adult should have enough common sense, and responsibility, to take it upon themselves to research proper care (or to ask the breeder/seller questions) ~Before~ they purchase an animal. I realize that some people do not fall into that category but, if that is the case, it is not the fault of the breeder/seller.

Sums up my feelings on the care sheet 100%. Its very easy to do a Google search and find a wide variety of care sheets for any animal. It really is important to know exactly what you're getting into before you decide on purchasing an animal, especially an expensive one.
I've never received a care sheet in any of my shipments, granted I've only purchased from 5 larger breeders and several small-scale private breeders, so I haven't had enough shipments to figure how often care sheets are included.
Underground does have a link on their site for care sheets, although its currently unclickable so that leads me to believe it is a WIP.

From what I've seen, by looking at their page and in dealings with them myself, Underground is willing to answer questions and help people in care. Obviously, they told the OP that the setup was not suitable for a GTP, I would hope that she was then told how to correct the issues.

As far as their mite spray goes, I'd assume it has the same basic ingredients that most other competing sprays would have, much like flea and tick medication in dogs and cats, however the concentration or amount of each ingredient is probably different. I doubt they're adding things like methamphetamine to the mix.

 

[chollowell]

As to telling me about my setup. Nothing was said about it until the snake died. I seriously doubt my temporary quarantine set up killed him since he died hours within using the mite killer that I had just received that day and used after receiving it. Then the snake died hours after. After seeing how sick he was becoming after using the spray. I even tried wiping him down with water to try and get the spray off of him. But he still perished.

 

[NIGRO51]

The snake died within hours of being sprayed with the mite killer I was sent. I sprayed it on him directly just like they told me to do.

Without a report from the vet there is no way to say if it was the spray ( which I doubt especially if they will use it on their own animals) or just bad husbandry

 

[AZmorphedballs]

This chondro was originally a farm bred baby that came from Bushmaster stock. We are happy to include a care sheet or offer care info if asked. We have to do this do to the volume of orders that come in. We always encourage our customers to do the necessary research or ask any questions they may have before purchasing an animal. The mite kill solution is our own brand that we make and have used as a treatment and preventative for over 10 years. We would be happy to demonstrate its use for anyone that comes into the store or even wishes to video. I informed Mrs. Hollowell that she can spray this solution on the animal and the cage, daily, but to avoid the water dish.

We won't divulge that just because it is our own solution that we sell, but as I stated I would gladly demonstrate it's use on our own snakes, even our own Chondro breeders. Hopefully that puts your mind at ease. Thank you.

1. Is your "mite kill solution" registered with the EPA?
2. The EPA states that every pesticide must have a label on it. The label should include the active ingredients in the product and their total percentage by weight, along with the the total percentage by weight of the Inert ingredients. The EPA registration number. Directions of use. The name, brand or trademark.
And the label has to be approved by the EPA.

 

[NIGRO51]

If everyone has a problem with the mite killer stop crying here and call an agency already.. the customer pit a mystery solution on their own animal without question.

 

[SquamataMississauga]

the customer pit a mystery solution on their own animal without question.

The customer put a mystery solution from the seller on their own animal at the sellers instruction

That's a far bigger difference then you would believe.

 

[NIGRO51]

The customer put a mystery solution from the seller on their own animal at the sellers instruction

That's a far bigger difference then you would believe.

I understand that but still do not think that it killed the animal. There are many things that sound like the op was not ready for this animal. One major thing is the treatment or lack thereof of the mites. Also I think that any quarantine should mimic the correct conditions ans saying that the wrong setup was just temporary is still wrong. And finally if they thought the solution killed the animal why isn't there a vet report??

 

[chollowell]

Here is a picture of the email response. Saying sorry about mites. Etc. notice the date is the same date I received the snake.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

shouldn't giving a care sheet with all the need to know fact a must? a

Yeah, there is no concept of personal responsibility is there?

 

[chollowell]

And yes the snake seemed healthy. People with cancer can seem healthy at first. But within hours of being treated with their mite killer. They sent and said spray directly on snake it died.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Picture of the substrate I use. And it's not pine.

So apparently he wasn't being kept on paper towels like the first post.

. I had him on paper towel since much easier to clean and see mites on. I misted the snake 2-3 times a day.

. January 17th the mite killer arrived from underground so I treated him with it. I disinfected his cage yet again. Put him back in it and humidity never ever got below 50% you could actually see the condensation in his cage. And his temps at night were never below 76 and during the day was 88. He perished the evening of the 17th

As to telling me about my setup. Nothing was said about it until the snake died. I seriously doubt my temporary quarantine set up killed him since he died hours within using the mite killer that I had just received that day and used after receiving it. Then the snake died hours after. After seeing how sick he was becoming after using the spray. I even tried wiping him down with water to try and get the spray off of him. But he still perished.

You stated you disinfected the cage that day as well. With what product?

 

[GMTIRRILL]

If everyone has a problem with the mite killer stop crying here and call an agency already.. the customer pit a mystery solution on their own animal without question.

i have a problem with a reptile store that does not inform a customer about correct husbandry for a type of reptile and the lack quarinteen that they used with this animal

that GTp should not of been shipped with a mite investation

 

[chollowell]

Yes he was. When I put the cage back together after disinfecting it when he died. I put aspen in it. Just to take a picture of the set up for them. I did inform everyone paper towel was what was in it though while he was alive. I washed the cage with HOT water and used dawn soap. When it died I used bleach and hot water to clean everything.