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My rats are on strike.....

Cat_72

Back from exile :)
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Ok, to heck with the "dry spell"....I think my rats have gone on strike. :eek:

Their production has gone down to almost zilch, and other than temps dropping, I have changed nothing. They have constant access to Mazuri rodent feed, and water is all automatic as well. Aspen bedding completely changed out every week to 2 weeks, depending on how many rats are in the tub (ones with lots of babies sometimes don't even make it a week before I change them out).

Could the temp change make that big of a difference for them? What temps do you guys keep your rodent rooms at (mine is outside, but well insulated, and I have a radiant heater in there, with a fan to circulate).

Or....I just had another thought while thinking if I forgot to add something....would the amount of daylight itself make the difference? :shrug01: They have a window in the room, plus a small light on during the day, and a night-light at night (so I can see if I walk in there, not because they are scared of the dark).
 
I am interested in this thread too, because my production is also down....could they have gotten a whiff of the ASFs and realized their demise isn't too far off if this project pans out? :)
 
LOL, mine have always shared a room with my ASF, so it's not that in my case. ;)
 
I've got some older groups, then some younger groups as well. One or 2 of the older groups perhaps could be waning in production due to age, but then they aren't doing any worse than the young ones, so....I just don't know.
 
I got older males with ball sacs hanging..a few young males ready to take over from the older males. I got the young males with the older females and the older males with the younger females (that way someone knows what they are doing).

I have some litters now..but no where near what I was expecting and I think since I stopped using cat food and went back to pure mazuri they are hungry because the screens seem soo small for that pellet food, but the cat food is easy to get at. (now I mix them up..so they work, and have easy food at the same time)
 
Could the temp change make that big of a difference for them? What temps do you guys keep your rodent rooms at (mine is outside, but well insulated, and I have a radiant heater in there, with a fan to circulate).

Yes, it can. Mine are 76 F year round (heating in colder months, air conditioning in warmer temps). It wouldn't hurt a boost of vitamins in their drinking water. Vitamin E in particular has been demonstrated a must with rats. A dosage similar to those used in baby chicks will work.

Good luck! :)
 
Hmmm.....I always thought that the rats did better at a bit lower temps, I've got mine set at about 65 right now. I'll have to up the temp a bit, and see if that makes the difference. I'm thinking I'm going to put a larger fluorescent light up for them as well, and will see what water-soluble vitamins I can pick up from the vet as long as I am going to be there tomorrow anyway.

Do you supplement yours with the Vitamin E on a regular schedule, Dan?

Thanks!
 
Interesting...my rats are kept in a room in my barn. It's not heated, so it gets fairly cool. I'm in FL, but the temps in the room still drop in the 50s on cold nights and 70-80 during the day (I do cover the bins when it gets colder). My rats are breeding like crazy, though. Most of my females are either pregnant or nursing pups. The ones that aren't are young ones that I just added.

I just changed what I'm feeding, too. I mix mazuri lab chow, sunflowers, dog chow, alfalfa, and poultry finisher (I made sure it's organic, hormone free, ect.). They seem to be doing better on the mix than when I was just feeding the mazuri. Their coats look better and they grow faster, too.

Shelly
 
Cat,

No, I don't supplement them because I haven't found the need to. But if you look into the scientific literature, vitamin A is of course credited for most of the nutritional reproductive problems in most species, both vitamin A and E in rats only. These are both fat soluble vitamins. Vitamin A as such is only present in the liver of animals, beta carotene's and xanthophills their precursors are in plants and seeds. It's very possible that the lipid content in sunflowers and the poultry finishing diet (usually fortified with vitamin E due to how sensible poultry are to the deficiency) might be helping Shelly with the breeding success of her rats. If it's that or not I do agree with her in that supplying a variety of feeds is oftentimes better for rats. It is one of the few species where it has been claimed there is "nutritional wisdom" as they will pick and choose to balance what's deficient in their diet.

As far as the ambient temperature goes that's just because it's the basal temperature of our reptile room where they are also housed.

Regards,

Dan
 
The BoidSmith said:
Cat...I meant Cathy! Sorry. :)

I actually go by either, in real life and otherwise, so no worries. :)

The only vet that was in the office today was the guy that's more of the "farm animal guy", and he looked at me like I was kinda off when I asked him about vitamin supplementation for rats, so I figured I'd wait til the other vet was available.

I may have to go just shop around the farm store after class tomorrow, and see what looks interesting.....and maybe at the horse feed and such I currently have at home as well. I've thought about mixing some of the cracked corn and horse pellets in with the Mazuri before, but I'm pretty sure most of the smaller stuff would just fall through the screen of my feeders and into the bedding, and a lot would end up going to waste.

Shelly, how do you feed the chicken crumbles and such? I know those get nasty in a hurry if they get into the bedding and get damp (I've raised enough of those dumb broiler chickens to know this all too well!)
 
What really works well as a supplement is the "scratch grains" for poultry that you can buy at any Runnings store. It's not that expensive and gerbils, hamsters, and ASF love it. As far as the vitamins goes you probably have to go for those used as anti-stress in chicks. Any farm and ranch store carry those.

Regards.
 
I do give my ASF a dish of seed (a wild bird type mix) besides their Mazuri, and they love it. I've never really used the scratch grains for my chickens, since they are free range, I just make sure they always have cracked corn, and they clean up what the horses spill or miss as well. I'll have to look at what's actually in the scratch grains.

Do you just put it in a separate dish inside the tub?
 
Cat_72 said:
Shelly, how do you feed the chicken crumbles and such? I know those get nasty in a hurry if they get into the bedding and get damp (I've raised enough of those dumb broiler chickens to know this all too well!)
See, that's why I hate chickens...they're way to messy:).

I just toss the chicken crumbles in a pile in a corner of the tub (usually I pull the bedding out of the corner first). You would think it would make a big mess, but the rats don't leave much. I guess I must be feeding the right amount or something. I can't put food on top of my screens/in hoppers since the rats are in the barn...the wild rats will find a way to get the food (they're very determined). Putting it in a dish would probably work too; I'm just too cheap to buy dishes for all my rats, lol.

Shelly
 
Well, the ASF have always completely buried their dish by the next day anyway, so I'm not sure if it would be any better than just tossing it in, really.

I guess I'm just going to have to do some research and trial-and-error to see what's going to work. I need to get something sorted out soon, or I'm going to have to find someplace to buy rats.
 
Came across this in my research...it may be helpful.

http://ratguide.com/health/viruses/kilham_rat_virus.php

(KRV, RV, Rat Virus, RPV, parvovirus r-1)
Definition
There are three serogroups of parvoviruses that affect rats: RPV (formerly rat orphan parvovirus), RV, and H-1 (Toolan’s). Kilham rat virus is one strain representing the RV serogroup.
The Parvoviridae are single-stranded DNA (ssDNA) viruses. Having no cell structure of its own it infects the body’s cells to replicate. Parvoviruses preferentially replicate when cells are in a mitotic stage of cell division such as is seen during fetal development.

Clinical Signs
RV infection is usually subclinical. Within an infected colony there may never be any sign of illness other than an occasional small litter or a temporary lack of litters produced.
During the active stage of the infection clinical signs may include:

  • Small litters
    Infertility
    Runting
    Stillborn babies
    Litter resorption
On rare occasions RV can become clinically evident in unnaturally infected rats. If this occurs the rat may experience failure to thrive, ataxia (uncoordinated muscle movements), cerebellar hypoplasia (congenital damage to the part of the brain that controls coordination of movement), or jaundice (yellowing of the skin & mucus membranes due to the liver’s inability to process bile). These signs have been seen in rats experimentally exposed to virulent strains of RV during the late stage of pregnancy or the first week of life. Scrotal cyanosis has also been seen in rats experimentally infected with RV.

Etiology
Rats are a natural host of Kilham rat virus. Members of the RV serogroup are more likely to be associated with clinical disease, but infections may also be subclinical.
The modes of transmission are horizontal through exposure to infected urine, feces, nasal secretions, milk, fomites (inanimate objects or materials which can convey disease-producing agents), and through the placental barrier. Although transmission is not typically by aerosol, the viruses it can become airborne on particles of dust during the disturbance of the rats’ bedding or litter.

Parvoviruses target replicating tissue and can cause cell and tissue destruction. This explains why RV, while in its active stage, will interfere with the formation of offspring while they are developing in utero or perinatally. Such interference may result in smaller litters, stillborns, or the resorption of litters.

Antibodies will form within 7-10 days after exposure. It has been concluded through research that the anti-viral antibodies do not clear infection. (1)

If an exposed female has already built up antibodies they will be passed on to her offspring in colostrum during suckling. After the transference of the antibodies these young rats will test positive, but will not be infected. These babies may then become infected 2-7 months after the effects of maternal antibodies have worn off. At this point they would have less evidence of clinical disease.

If the mother has been infected and has not had time to build up antibodies, then the developing babies can be affected in utero. Infection early in the pregnancy may lead to partial or total resorption of the fetuses. If a dam is infected in the last trimester (with no antibodies present) she may then transfer the virus either in utero or through milk, after they are born, to the surviving offspring.

Infection occurring from the third trimester in utero through the first week of life can result in rats with a more persistent infection. Early infection such as this can take up to six months to clear.

The persistence of the virus depends largely on the age and/or immunocompetence of the rat when it is exposed. The younger the rat is at initial infection the longer the disease will persist. Young rats are immunologically naïve and therefore stay infectious much longer than adults.

Once the rats get past the active infection, typically 60-90 days, the virus does remain in certain tissues including the spleen, lymph nodes, and walls of blood vessels. These areas of infection are not affiliated with the transmission routes (such as the urinary tract, mammary glands, and digestive system) and therefore the virus will no longer be transmitted via urine, milk, or feces. Note that once a rat is exposed it will continue to test positive for RV on serology tests even after the active infection as cleared.

Research has shown that if a normally post-infectious rat is stressed either physically or psychologically there is a possibility that the RV can be reactivated and transmitted to other rats.

Other factors that contribute to infection and transmission issues are the rat’s natural resistance to disease, whether the rat is immunocompromised (e.g. athymic), and the particular strain of RV you are dealing with. In a rat with immune system disorders it would be possible for RV to persistently infect. Particularly virulent strains may persist past the normal predicted times.

Diagnostics

A colony showing a decrease in pregnancies and litter size may be infected with RV. If you feel serological testing is needed you, or your vet, can contact a testing lab to get specific instructions on how to prepare a test sample. It is important to remember that other syndromes can lead to litter loss and reproductive issues such as uterine mycoplasmal infections and/or nutritional issues.
RV antibodies can show up on a standard serum test as soon as seven days post-exposure but it is recommended to wait 14-21 days after possible exposure for more accurate testing. The rat being tested should be at least two months of age. Remember that young adult antibody-positive rat may have maternal antibody and not antibody developed as a result of active Infection.

If your vet does not have the equipment to spin the blood then the lab can explain alternate methods. Usually .5mL of whole blood is required to make between .1 - .25mL of serum (minimum for one test is .1 mL). Pooling blood will decrease the accuracy of your results. Do not add anticoagulants. If the sample is diluted with saline please note the ratio (usually 4 parts saline –1 part whole blood). Samples can be iced and shipped overnight. The ELISA is used for initial screening with RV as part of the basic series. If the RV test is positive, other more specific tests discriminating among H-1 virus, RV and RPV infections can be run. You can specifically request RV (KRV) testing.

ELISA (enzyme-linked immunoabsorbent assay) - primary screen
IFA (indirect fluorescent antibody assay) - confirmatory test

Recommended Testing Facilities:
RADIL, University of Missouri, Columbia, MO: http://www.radil.missouri.edu/info/DiagTesting/services/molecularbiology.asp
Charles River Laboratories, Wilmington, MA: (800) 338-9680
Treatment
There is no medical treatment for RV Infection.

Impact on Pet Owners/Breeders
RV is not known to be a health concern in pet rat colonies. Even so, it is advisable to stay cognizant of the potential and keep an eye out for subtle signs of infection.
In the breeding environment, it may affect the outcomes of planned breeding. It is not typically a health issue and can be active in a colony with little or no effect.

In a colony, the RV infection can be kept active by the addition of naïve rats, either in the form of new litters or by bringing in rats from outside sources.

Once rats have shed the virus they are not typically contagious to others, but they will continue to test positive for RV and there is no conclusive proof that it can no longer be transmitted. It is possible for the RV Infection to become reactivated in a rat, thus infecting new additions. It is also possible for new rats to become infected via fomites.

A positive ELISA does not necessarily mean the rat is infectious to others. A positive result can simply mean that the rat has been infected at some point in the past and is no longer shedding the virus. DNA testing performed on excreta can indicate whether or not virus is still being shed. More Invasive (terminal) procedures are required to show whether the rat Is Infected at sites not expected to be associated with transmission. DNA testing may not be a practical option for the pet owner or hobby breeder because it is very expensive and may require euthanasia of the rat.

Attempting to Clear a Colony of RV
Some breeders and fanciers may choose to attempt to clear their colonies of RV. It may be possible to do so although there are factors that make such an attempt difficult. The effort would mean that the fancier would have to consider not only the rats, but also the environmental aspects. Even with the strictest procedures there are no guarantees.
Parvoviruses are extremely stable in the environment and can remain viable for weeks or months. It is this characteristic that facilitated the worldwide spread of canine parvovirus in the early 1980s. Removing the virus from an environment, especially in a non-lab setting, would be a monumental. The first step would be to thoroughly scrub to remove all debris on cages, accessories, walls, and floors with soapy water then sterilize with bleach solution. No surface, crack, corner, or wire could be ignored if the clearance is to be as complete as possible. Carpet, furniture, and drapes may present a problem during an attempt to disinfect. Dishes, bowls, and water bottles would also need this treatment. Porous items such as wicker nests and wood accessories could potentially harbor the virus and elimination may need to be considered. Food and litter, even though unused may also have been contaminated during normal handling and may also need to be eliminated. This would have to be completed after the quarantine and well before any rats were brought in.

Attempting to clear a colony of KRV would have to start by following a quarantine of 60-90 days for juvenile and adult rats and up to six months for rats suspected of in utero infection or within one week of birth. Moving the rats exposed as infants (or in utero) to another location would decrease quarantine time. There would have to be a complete moratorium on breeding and acquisition of new rats.

Cleaning Agents for Parvoviruses
Household Bleach (4 oz bleach – 1 gal water) Do not store mixed solution.
PARVO Disinfectant Spray by Simple Solution
After a full quarantine and a thorough cleaning, the success of the campaign can be tested by bringing several new rats into the colony, distributing them throughout the sub groups and then ELISA testing them two – three weeks [prefer 4 weeks If low-level contamination Is still present] later. Negative testing will not be conclusive proof that the colony is 100% free of active RV but may serve as an indicator.
Keep in mind that it is also possible for the previously infected rats, through reactivation, to transfer the disease to the new rats at any given time causing active infection. Periodic testing of rats that came in after the full quarantine will aid in determining if this has happened.

Prevention
Test new rats before admitting them into the colony.
Receive rats from RV-free colonies
Wild rats can carry RV, so it is recommended to keep your domesticated rats in an area where wild rats have no access.
Quarantining new rats would help you to avoid RV only if it is extended past the typical 2-3 week quarantine(60-90 days for adults and up to six months for rats exposed in utero or shortly after birth) and may not provide a practical solution.

References
1) Immune Responses to the Major Capsid Protein during Parvovirus Infection of Rats
Journal of Virology, October 2002, p. 10044-10049, Vol. 76, No. 19
Ball-Goodrich, Lisa J., Paturzo, Frank X., Johnson, Elizabeth A., Steger, Krista, Jacoby, Robert O.
2) Prevalence of rat virus infection in progeny of acutely or persistently infected pregnant rats. (Abstract)
Comp Med. 2001 Feb;51(1):38-42.
Jacoby RO, Ball-Goodrich L, Paturzo FX, Johnson EA.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...t_uids=11926300&dopt=Abstract&itool=iconabstr

(3) Persistent rat parvovirus infection in individually housed rats
Arch Virol. 1991;117(3-4):193-205
Jacoby RO, Johnson EA, Paturzo FX, Gaertner DJ, Brandsma JL, Smith AL

4) Rat Parvovirus Type 1: the Prototype for a New Rodent Parvovirus Serogroup
J Virol, April 1998, p. 3289-3299, Vol. 72, No. 4
Lisa J. Ball-Goodrich, Stuart E. Leland, Elizabeth A. Johnson, Frank X. Paturzo, and Robert O. Jacoby
http://jvi.asm.org/cgi/content/full/72/4/3289?view=full&pmid=9525656

5) Pathology of Laboratory Rodents and Rabbits (Overview)
Second edition Dean H. Percy and Stephen W. Barthold

6) Rodent Parvovirus Infections (Overview)
Jacoby RO, Ball-Goodrich LJ, Besselsen DG, McKisic MD, Riley LK, Smith AL.(1996)
Laboratory Animal Science46(4):370-380

Consultation and Technical Assistance
Dr. Robert Jacoby DVM, Ph.D., Dipl. ACVP
Professor and Chairman, Section of Comparative Medicine Yale University School of Medicine
(Phone consultation)
Dr. Abigail L. Smith, MPH, PhD
Director, Laboratory Animal Science, Jackson Laboratory, Bar Harbor, ME
President American Committee on Laboratory Animal Diseases (ACLAD)
(Email consultation and final article proofing)

Dr. Craig L. Franklin, DVM, Ph.D., ACLAM
University of Missouri Research Animal Diagnostic and Investigative Laboratory (RADIL)
(Phone and email consultation)

Charles River Laboratories- Technical Assistance Department
(Phone consultation)

Posted on December 12, 2003, 16:20, Last updated on November 16, 2007, 12:26 | Viruses
 
Just an update....the strike has officially ended. :)

I raised my room temps 5 degrees, and along with their regular Mazuri diet, I've been giving them a small scoop of a "high energy" wild bird seed mix each day, and also tossing in some XL "all natural" dog biscuits. The biscuits are really hard, so besides giving them some added/different nutrients, they also seem to enjoy chewing on them and even playing with them.

I've got rat pinks through large pup size coming out my ears right now, lol....I just have to get caught up on the larger sizes again.
 
Do you just put it in a separate dish inside the tub?

Sorry, I never answered this one. No. I just dump it in one corner of the cage. If I put it in a container they turn it around anyways in a matter of minutes.

Regards.
 
The BoidSmith said:
Sorry, I never answered this one. No. I just dump it in one corner of the cage. If I put it in a container they turn it around anyways in a matter of minutes.

Regards.

I found that out, lol. They just tipped the bowls over and buried them....so I have gone to just putting it in the one corner as well. I don't see any waste with the seed when I clean tubs.....and they all come to the front corner and wait for it now.
 
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