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naming your own line...
- Thread starter gant77
- Start date
reptilebreeder
New member
If someone finds an albino kingsnake in the wild, they don't name it after themselves, especially since albino's already exist, so I don't think it works that way. Not that there is an official governing body or anything so I guess you could call it whatever you want.
gant77
New member
Your right...
I never thought of it that way
He is still and will always be my beautiful boy!
I never thought of it that way
He is still and will always be my beautiful boy!
bcherps
New member
Naming your own line
I have to agree with the previous posts.
Naming your own line only becomes feasible or accepted by the herp community if you have a mutation that is blantanly different then everyone else's. Also, if you have a new mutation present itself from animals that you purchased from someone else's lines some people expect to get a footnote, or mention of the original line. One to help us keep track of genetics and modifer genes, to prevent us from wasting time trying to breed similiar traits that are on different loci (Sharp albino vs. Kahl Albino), and to initial keep some track of who has what to limit some scammers.
For example, I have a Kahl albino boa that I am breeding into an aberrant eastern colombian line that I am also developing. I am already showing promise that these aberrancies are genetic but I will forever have to denote the albino gene is from a Kahl albino. The aberrancy is a pattern and with some coloring/shading shifts. So, even though my animals will likely produce a different shade of albino I need to denote that it was originally Kahl so the industry doesn't claim it is a "new albino", the scammers don't try to sell it as thier own line or have hets from me, and the personal breeder doesn't try to fit this into thier Sharp line albino project and waste time and initial investment money.
In my genetics course current domestic livestock, dog breeds, lab animals and other animals that have purpose bred are not given a strain denotation until after 20 generations of inbreeding(sib x sib). This would take upwards of 50 years in balls.
Another sticky situation is you have to look out for similiar names. I believe caramel is already taken, so if you produce your "Caramel" pastel and then market it, you may get nasty emails at least or labelled a scammer at the worst. And when selling expensive animals you don't get to many chances to make a first impression.
It would not be wrong to let people know that this pastel is a wc/ch/farmed. In initial clutches of first generations you may not see big differences in offspring, however once you start breeding this ones offspring together you may see a shift or expression of a mutation, and if you do it would be nice to know that the originator was african produced and if anyone got the original first gens from you they then would know they have something special if set up in the right breedings.
Pastel animals along with hypomelanism, salmon, and a handful of others seem to have a wide range of magnitude of expression-likely becuase they affect a cluster of modifier genes. So we have to be especially careful when determining if our new babies are really something different. These animals change color throughout thier life and baby pics can be used to mislead the person. A friend of mine 3 years ago bought the best looking pastel ball male he could find and now it is uglier than some of my ugly ch normals!! I also had a hypo boa that had some throwback genes express and the thing turned so dark the only way you could tell it was hypo was to look at the underside of the tail. So if you name a new line/morph/strian of only one representative/one baby, once you get a couple years down the road people could say "that's ugly-why would I want one of them", when that is not what the animals truely look like as a whole group. Or someone could invest thousands of dollars getting first clutch animals then 2-3 years of food/care/growth then bred them and get animals that look like everyone else's-they just paid way to much to produce them. So we really have to be careful,document our animals, record what we see, and be honest/respective of each other when dealing with breed stock animals especially.
Just my $.02
Thanks
Ben Cole
I have to agree with the previous posts.
Naming your own line only becomes feasible or accepted by the herp community if you have a mutation that is blantanly different then everyone else's. Also, if you have a new mutation present itself from animals that you purchased from someone else's lines some people expect to get a footnote, or mention of the original line. One to help us keep track of genetics and modifer genes, to prevent us from wasting time trying to breed similiar traits that are on different loci (Sharp albino vs. Kahl Albino), and to initial keep some track of who has what to limit some scammers.
For example, I have a Kahl albino boa that I am breeding into an aberrant eastern colombian line that I am also developing. I am already showing promise that these aberrancies are genetic but I will forever have to denote the albino gene is from a Kahl albino. The aberrancy is a pattern and with some coloring/shading shifts. So, even though my animals will likely produce a different shade of albino I need to denote that it was originally Kahl so the industry doesn't claim it is a "new albino", the scammers don't try to sell it as thier own line or have hets from me, and the personal breeder doesn't try to fit this into thier Sharp line albino project and waste time and initial investment money.
In my genetics course current domestic livestock, dog breeds, lab animals and other animals that have purpose bred are not given a strain denotation until after 20 generations of inbreeding(sib x sib). This would take upwards of 50 years in balls.
Another sticky situation is you have to look out for similiar names. I believe caramel is already taken, so if you produce your "Caramel" pastel and then market it, you may get nasty emails at least or labelled a scammer at the worst. And when selling expensive animals you don't get to many chances to make a first impression.
It would not be wrong to let people know that this pastel is a wc/ch/farmed. In initial clutches of first generations you may not see big differences in offspring, however once you start breeding this ones offspring together you may see a shift or expression of a mutation, and if you do it would be nice to know that the originator was african produced and if anyone got the original first gens from you they then would know they have something special if set up in the right breedings.
Pastel animals along with hypomelanism, salmon, and a handful of others seem to have a wide range of magnitude of expression-likely becuase they affect a cluster of modifier genes. So we have to be especially careful when determining if our new babies are really something different. These animals change color throughout thier life and baby pics can be used to mislead the person. A friend of mine 3 years ago bought the best looking pastel ball male he could find and now it is uglier than some of my ugly ch normals!! I also had a hypo boa that had some throwback genes express and the thing turned so dark the only way you could tell it was hypo was to look at the underside of the tail. So if you name a new line/morph/strian of only one representative/one baby, once you get a couple years down the road people could say "that's ugly-why would I want one of them", when that is not what the animals truely look like as a whole group. Or someone could invest thousands of dollars getting first clutch animals then 2-3 years of food/care/growth then bred them and get animals that look like everyone else's-they just paid way to much to produce them. So we really have to be careful,document our animals, record what we see, and be honest/respective of each other when dealing with breed stock animals especially.
Just my $.02
Thanks
Ben Cole
bcherps
New member
Forgot to mention
Forgot to mention he is a nice looking critter. Hope you do well with him.
Thanks
ben cole
Forgot to mention he is a nice looking critter. Hope you do well with him.
Thanks
ben cole
Junkyard
Generally Running Circles
Yes, the Caramel is already taken. It is form of albinism. Using Carmel would end up being confusing, maybe you can drop to letters all together and go with Camel. Though it is a pretty ball that may end up being a "Casey" line pastel.
Though it is a pretty ball that may end up being a "Casey" line pastel.gant77
New member
Just a note guys- My middle name is Carmel NOT Caramel! LOL! I get that all the time, and caramel is my fav. candy as well so, it does get a bit confusing! Thanks for all the input Junkyard and others. I just wanted to get some info on it! Thanks for the compliments as well. much appreciated-Casey Kuntz
gant77
New member
Hmmm, Casey Line. Has a nice ring to it! LOL
Casey Carmel Kuntz
Casey Carmel Kuntz
darkbloodwyvern
New member
:3 nice snake regardless. the whole creating a new line seems to be a long term process. and sorry, i read caramel too. *sheepish*