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Need Advice On Getting A Stolen Snake Back!

Siukie

Siukie

~ Serpent Master ~
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Alright, so against my better judgement. I shipped my boa first in a trade for two ball pythons. She received my boa 110% healthy and then proceeded to ship the ball pythons. Well this morning I received them, and to my surprise, both DOA. Dead in the container.. I have video proof and pictures while I opened the box. She is now refusing to ship back my boa, and has come up with every excuse in the books why she can't do it. First it was "I'm unemployed, I can't afford to ship him." Next it was.. "I'm pregnant, I can't be shipping another snake." Then it was.. "He doesn't look healthy anymore, it's too risky to ship him back." Or how about.. "I'm going to hold onto him for 30 days and if he doesn't make it we're both at a loss." Just so much BS. :angry: What legal steps can I take to get the boa back? While I can report it to the police, will I need to report it to the police near me, or the ones near her? And/or what other options do I have? I would appreciate some input. This was a very devastating event for me, as I've always been honest and fair.. and all I ever asked for was that in return. Humanity is a let down sometimes.. :ack2:​
 
What city/state is this person in? Maybe you can find someone who can pick up the boa and ship it to you, though you may have to cover that cost yourself.
 
It is apparent how they died? If they were healthy when shipped, there may be a different outcome than if they were shipped dead to begin with. I do not see how making a report to the police will help if some intervening event during transit caused their death.
 
bcr229 said:
What city/state is this person in? Maybe you can find someone who can pick up the boa and ship it to you, though you may have to cover that cost yourself.
Click to expand...

She's in Morrisville, Vermont. I was planning to get in touch with the police department there.
 
Lucille said:
It is apparent how they died? If they were healthy when shipped, there may be a different outcome than if they were shipped dead to begin with. I do not see how making a report to the police will help if some intervening event during transit caused their death.
Click to expand...

I don't know how they died, she does not have any video or picture proof of them being boxed alive. :shrug01: As to their death, I could not say what killed them. Their bodies appear to be in tact, but they are both intertwined together and just well, dead. The container did smell rather bad. :ack2:

The principle of the matter is she is not willing to even ship my boa back to me, whether the bp's were alive or dead on her end (I couldn't say if they were alive or not when shipped). I will be looking into my options when I call the local police department, I am assuming I will have to take her to court over the fact that she was not willing to be fair about the trade.

So right now I am gathering all the messages from her and I, that we sent. And all the other proof.

While I could just say "Oh well I lost a snake I paid over $500 for." I've been through scams before and other unfortunate reptiles related business deals. I just don't think others should have no consequences for their actions. I've tried talking to her, and working it out (Nicely I might add) but she eventually told me she's done being harassed and she is keeping the boa. :ack2: So my attempts to ask her to ship him back in a respectful manner have proved futile. :shrug01:
 
The cops will likely tell you this is a civil dispute.

Are you having a necropsy done on the ones that were sent to you, or is the COD obvious, such as improper packaging/shipping, wrong type or no heat pack used, etc?
 
If the critters were alive when shipped this is a civil matter, not a criminal one. You can sue her, but the snake you sent is not 'stolen'. It is as if you bought a teacup set on Ebay and the teacups arrived broken. It is easier on Ebay because there are agreements when something arrives 'not as described', did you have any agreement with her prior to shipping, if something went wrong?

Uniform Commercial Code › U.C.C. - ARTICLE 2 - SALES (2002) › PART 5. PERFORMANCE › § 2-509. Risk of Loss in the Absence of Breach.
§ 2-509. Risk of Loss in the Absence of Breach.
(1) Where the contract requires or authorizes the seller to ship the goodsby carrier

(a) if it does not require him to deliver them at a particular destination, the risk of loss passes to the buyer when the goods are duly delivered to the carrier even though the shipment is under reservation (Section 2-505); but
(b) if it does require him to deliver them at a particular destination and the goods are there duly tendered while in the possession of the carrier, the risk of loss passes to the buyer when the goods are there duly so tendered as to enable the buyer to take delivery.
(2) Where the goods are held by a bailee to be delivered without being moved, the risk of loss passes to the buyer

(a) on his receipt of a negotiable document of title covering the goods; or
(b) on acknowledgment by the bailee of the buyer's right to possession of the goods; or
(c) after his receipt of a non-negotiable document of title or other written direction to deliver, as provided in subsection (4)(b) of Section 2-503.
(3) In any case not within subsection (1) or (2), the risk of loss passes to the buyer on his receipt of the goods if the seller is a merchant; otherwise the risk passes to the buyer on tender of delivery.

(4) The provisions of this section are subject to contrary agreement of the parties and to the provisions of this Article on sale on approval (Section 2-327) and on effect of breach on risk of loss (Section 2-510).
 
This is civil, not criminal, unless a necro on the dead BP's shows they were dead prior to shipping. It's up to you if you want to spend that money.

Otherwise small claims court awaits, but good luck collecting even if you do win.

Frankly I wouldn't trust her to ship your boa back safely.
 
bcr229 said:
This is civil, not criminal, unless a necro on the dead BP's shows they were dead prior to shipping. It's up to you if you want to spend that money.

Otherwise small claims court awaits, but good luck collecting even if you do win.

Frankly I wouldn't trust her to ship your boa back safely.
Click to expand...

I don't think i'd completely trust her to ship him back either, and while I know this will be a long drawn out mess of civil matters, I don't like the thought of people being dishonest in any line of business. As I told her, if my boa was DOA, due to shipping or any other reason, I would of gladly covered shipping and had her bp's back to her within the week because that is how I operate. So to me it's worth the trouble to make an example here if at all possible.
 
You may have to go to Vermont to sue, and all you can get is money damages, the return of the snake itself cannot be compelled in Small Claims.
 
Perhaps a description of the BOI might move her to return the snake, otherwise you might think of starting a post there. Peer pressure can often work wonders as an inducement to solve a difficult issue.
 
Lucille said:
Perhaps a description of the BOI might move her to return the snake, otherwise you might think of starting a post there. Peer pressure can often work wonders as an inducement to solve a difficult issue.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately she seems to be playing hard ball. I had given her options to ship him back or cover what the boa was worth, to which she declined in all forms of manner. I proceeded to tell her I'd prefer to settle things without having to involve any court claims. However she told me to go ahead and file all the claims I want, then immediately deleted not only her Facebook page (Which we were in contact through) But also disabled other accounts linking to her name. I knew she was refusing to send him back, but I didn't expect her to up and start burning her trail like wildfire. :censored: Thankfully I like to be prepared, I have full screenshots on our entire conversation between us during the trade (Stamped with time, dates, and names), before she had the chance to delete her page along with the messages. So I will be filing a small claims suit first thing next week. Just a shame things have to come to this. She figured she could delete the proof that I ever traded with her. :shrug01:
 
I also think I BOI with a copy of all this will be helpful to you and everyone else that might have a run in with her or even deals in progress. Plus it makes it almost impossible for her to trade your snake off.
 
mechnut450 said:
I also think I BOI with a copy of all this will be helpful to you and everyone else that might have a run in with her or even deals in progress. Plus it makes it almost impossible for her to trade your snake off.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately there are a lot of people who won't give a :censored: about that.

Since she's on FB make sure that you post your info to the various feedback forums there as well.
 
Sarah did you already start a BOI thread on her, or am I missing it? Once we know who she is, then we might be able to help out further.
 
Ask her if she is willing to return the snake if you arrange transport. I work with a network through our rescue that has a lot of folks in that part of the world. If you can get her to agree to return it, maybe we can get back to CLE. Message me if you want more info. Keith.
 
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