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Need Help!! Jeffrey Grass has burned me good!

Yeah, it's not legally feasable. They said I was more than welcome to pick it up , but that's not possible. I don't even think it will be mailed out express. I will keep everyone posted. Except for Shannon! I'm still not to fond of her.

Jeff Janes
 
I hope I don't loose to much sleep over this tonight....

Wouldn't it be nice if the post office would happen to hear a scratching noise and open the box? It would be so great if they knew there were live animals in there. I'll be wishing for it and thinking of them!
Maybe they could save them?
Wouldn't it be great if these innocent Dragons could be saved and make it through this? That would be such a great outcome. I know I would love to hear they are alive and well! One might be gimpy and one might be ugly but they would be such little fighters to have made it!!!

I know now I am going to be so careful when I sell my animals. I am going to make sure my boxes are marked in even bolder letters stating what is in the box. Glad I took the time to fill out the UPS form to be authorized to ship legally. If anyone would like to do this please email me. I can tell you who to talk to and about the one piece of paper you have to fill out and fax to them.
This way if something would delay shipping overnight andit states what is in the box maybe UPS would be kind enough to keep them warm...doubt it but I'd feel better knowing they might have a kind heart! I'm also going to make sure my buyers have my phone number, both home and cell so if they receive the box and it isn't right they can tell me right away and I can correct any problems without any animals being in jeopardy. Of course I always do keep in touch with my buyers before, during and after the sale. I figure this makes them realize I am legitimate and care about my animals. And if I buy off the internet I am going to make sure whoever I am buying from is a true business by getting phone numbers and references and of course checking the BOI, before I send any money.
This is such a great tool to use. I've never really spoken to too many customers or people I am buying from on the phone. I think I will be now! Emails are so impersonnel and they can be lost or not received. I've had serious email problems for over a week for some odd reason at home and work. Can't send and only sometimes receive. I know I am missing emails and I know I have not received many I should have. Hopefully MSN will fix it soon!

I dont think that scammer will be selling on Reptibid anymore at least with everyone on the warpath for him. Or he may just register under a new name......that Jeff guy is just a bad person....to contribute to those little guys deaths...hopefully, and I am so hoping, they went into brummation. What do y'all think the chances of that are? Or would it be too warm in a PO for it. Or is it more a lack of food, light, and water that could bring it on...
 
Since I do know about something related to this topic I thought I would post it so that all involved would know what is correct, this was copied and pasted off the USPS website:

"Can Postal Inspectors open mail if they feel it may contain something illegal?

First-Class letters and parcels are protected against search and seizure under the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution, and, as such, cannot be opened without a search warrant. If there is probable cause to believe the contents of a First-Class Mail® letter or parcel violate federal law, Postal Inspectors can obtain a search warrant to open the mailpiece. Other classes of mail do not contain private correspondence, and therefore may be opened without a warrant."​

I have talked to the top guy at our main local post office in the past about the PO opening boxes I ship out (fyi, things shipped that are sold on Ebay, NOT live reptiles). I was told that ONLY first class mail could not be opened without a search warrant. HOWEVER, ALL OTHER classes of mail (Express, Priority, Parcel Post, Media Mail, etc.) CAN be opened for ANY reason by the USPS at any time that any single employee feels there is a reason to open it.

So yes, if someone did hear scratching or the box smelled bad, or any other reason, a postal employee could/probably would open it and it would be legal. You can go to the USPS website and seach for that question or call the USPS if you don't believe me.

From a personal standpoint, I certainly understand wanting to receive what you've paid for. I have had issues with being shipped the wrong item too (live reptlies and actual merchanside too). However, this situation wasn't something like you purchased a t-shirt off of Ebay and received the wrong one and shipped it back and it sat at the post office unclaimed for like 12 days thusfar. These are living, breathing creatures that have now been stranded for going on 12 days with out food, water or other provisions. I can't begin to tell you how many ways that is just plain wrong.

I hope the beardies are still alive when you receive them back.
 
even though

getting a UPS account that allows shippment of harmless reptiles would certainly be preferable, I do not think it is "that" easy. It seems to depend on who you talk to or deal with at UPS. Seems you get different answers from different people there.

That aside, IF I would regularly ship animals, I would prefer to become a Known shipper with UPS, but there is NO WAY I would mark the box IN BIG BOLD LETTERS to contain live harmless reptiles.

Sorry but imho and knowning "human kind" you just risk this box treated even far worse then if it wasn't marked.

Sad as it is, many people dislike reptiles, even to the point of fearing them or just being creeped out. Then there are the people that are just plain cruel and prolly thing it would be funny to shake the box or even kick it across the floor.

You think that wouldn't happen????

I know for A FACT it has happend, for no other reason that there were "reptiles" in the box.

As far as getting phonenumbers to talk to sellers, all nice and proper, however there were many a seller who gave out the wrong number or simply changed it/didn't answer the phone.

Yes, ideally everyone would check the BOI first and ideally there would be info on every seller, but that is just not the case. Not everyone knows about the BOI and new scammer pop up every day.

Grassi is of the WORST kind, and I just know he will use the excuse that was handed on the silver platter...."his email didn't work" , "he had a family emergency"...blahblah.

He KNEW the dragons were waiting at the postoffice, he purposely chose not to retrieve them. No excuse, NO excuse there.

The postoffice is NOT allowed to open someone elses mail, and one can only hope that through some miracle they made it.

And I still hope and wish that Grassi does not get away with this, that something can be done.

He should also be turned in for animal abuse on top of being turned in for fraud. Using the USPS to mail the wrong thing and not making right, isn't that considered "mail fraud"? Federal offense?

I would turn him in to the USPS , to the FBI, to Animal Control, heck I'd try ANYTHING.

Scamming for money is bad enough, but letting animals die a slow death in order to scam someone, despicable.
 
Aprylla

the seller acknowledged that the Beardies were at the Post office...

HE KNOWS IT. Now what else can be done? Someone was scammed they were sent the wrong animals. He returned them and the seller was NOTIFIED of getting them back.

The seller CHOSE to ignore this, the seller CHOSE not to pick up the Bearded at the postoffice, the seller CHOSE to let them die so that he can then use the convinient excuses that were speculated upon in this thread, to blame the buyer and scam him out of money and animals.

If anyone deserves contempt, its the seller.

Those are animals HE RAISED appearantly, yet he will sacrifece them to scam someone else.
There is NO excuse not to pick them up at the Post Office or have someone do it for him. He has knows they are there from the day delivery was attempted.

I bet that he PURPOSELY avoided delivery in the first place and now he will not retrieve them, either.

The focus needs to be on this despicable excuse of human being and I would like to see anything and everything done to bring him to justice.
 
repfriend said:
That aside, IF I would regularly ship animals, I would prefer to become a Known shipper with UPS, but there is NO WAY I would mark the box IN BIG BOLD LETTERS to contain live harmless reptiles.
Click to expand...

NOT marking a box containing live reptiles with how many of each reptile and what type is a violation of the Lacey Act. There have been people prosecuted and jailed/fined huge sums of $$$ under the Lacey Act. I would never risk the possibility of having a federal felony on my record just to ship some reptiles. Personally, I have a FedEx account and have a live reptile shipping contract with them. I have shipped probably around 100-150 reptiles in the past year or so, and I have never had one injured or otherwise harmed or die in shipping, and (anyone who has ever received a reptile from me knows this, lol) I mark the top of the box in big bold letters as to the quantity and type of reptile in the box, along with the words "Live Harmless Reptile(s)". I also write "Live harmless reptiles" on all 4 sides of the box along with a big yellow "Perishable" sticker on each side and the top if there is room. I'm not going to say that there are no people at FedEx who don't drop the box on purpose or otherwise try to damage it, I am sure there are some retards there that do things liek that. However, that's also the reason that I take precautions against such a thing by using well insulated boxes and packing reptiles snugly in the center of the box with tons of shredded newspaper. If they are dropped, shaken, etc. they will be in there secrurely enough to not be harmed. Maybe doing all this is overkill, but I would rather be safe than sorry.

As for the comment "the post office can't open your mail": The post office can't open first class mail such as a letter, without a search warrant. However, as I explained above, they can, for any reason they see fit, open packages and mail shipped ANY OTHER WAY other than first class. That is what federal law says. Ask your local postmaster if you have questions about this, look it up on USPS.com or call the USPS 1-800 number and they will explain it to you.

In my previous post, I did not lay the blame on anyone. I simply stated that bearded dragons being stranded in a box for nearly 12 days was wrong. I believe that both parties involved are responsible to some degree. The origianl seller admitted to knowing the beardies were at the post office awaiting pick up by him. The buyer who shipped them back to him had no idea if the seller would actually pick them up or not and sent them in an unmarked box. Obviously, had the Seller shipped the correct beardies in the first place, none of this would have ever happened. I am not "on anyone's side" here (other than being on the side of bearded dragons).

If the USPS figures this mess out (ie: opens the box to find the beardies, live or dead) and gets involved, both parties (shipper and receiver) will be answering some very serious questions and possibly facing charges being brought against them by the USPS and/or the Federal Fish & Game people who are in charge of prosecuting the Lacey Act.

I am hoping that somehow the beardies have managed to survive and can be brought back to health again and that the situation gets resolved as best as can be between the Seller and Buyer. I also hope that if anyone learns something out of this they learn that shipping reptiles in unmarked boxes (especially through the USPS) can cause a huge mess for you and the reptiles too.
 
New UPS Policy as of 1/05

repfriend said:
getting a UPS account that allows shippment of harmless reptiles would certainly be preferable, I do not think it is "that" easy. It seems to depend on who you talk to or deal with at UPS. Seems you get different answers from different people there.
Click to expand...


I just wanted to let you all know that as of January 1st of this year they will ship small harmless reptiles for anyone with a shipping account. They still will not ship snakes. I had to ship a bearded dragon back to someone and I was on the phone with our hub manager and he told me they did not ship reptiles period. I explained there had to be a special account and he said he would call me back. Well, he called and said he had a memo that effective Jan 1st you just had to have an account with UPS, not a specially approved reptile account to ship. I called my UPS store and they were not aware of it. So, I had them call the manager and he faxed the new policy over. So, it does exist, but UPS is so large the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing.

I sure hope the little beardies are going to be o.k. I understand why the buyer shipped them back, but I personally could not do that. Now let's all hope for the best for the beardies and for Jeff to get his money back.

Wendy Thomas
 
(QUOTE) getting a UPS account that allows shippment of harmless reptiles would certainly be preferable, I do not think it is "that" easy. It seems to depend on who you talk to or deal with at UPS. Seems you get different answers from different people there.

Misty, getting a UPS account to ship reptiles is easy! Just contact them, fill out some basic paper work & someone will call you and ask you questions about what you are shipping, like; what are you shipping, what is the latin name of the reptile, how large is it and what size box will you be using etc..... pretty painless!

(QUOTE) As far as getting phonenumbers to talk to sellers, all nice and proper, however there were many a seller who gave out the wrong number or simply changed it/didn't answer the phone.

Misty, Thats why I say call them FIRST and talk to them! They have to answer the phone, if they want to get there shipment or money! As far as changing there number after that, well I guess there's not much you could do about that, but I find it very unlikly!
I was wondering? Could someone else in the general area where the post office is, pick them up? There must be someone here on Fauna who lives near by! Or will they allow that?
 
Aprylla

Aprylla said:
NOT marking a box containing live reptiles with how many of each reptile and what type is a violation of the Lacey Act. There have been people prosecuted and jailed/fined huge sums of $$$ under the Lacey Act. I would never risk the possibility of having a federal felony on my record just to ship some reptiles.
Click to expand...

Note that I said I wouldn't mark it in BIG BOLD LETTERS plasted all over the box!!!!

I never said I wouldn't mark whats in the box. You do that on the label, and I doubt that every Joe at UPS would bother reading what's in the box.

Unless they would FORCE me to use big stickers all over the box as to what it is containing, I would prefer to just write it on the label, instead of having it "scream" at everyone handling the box.

My friends husband used to work for UPS, and when I asked him about coming across boxes with live animals, the storys he could tell!!!! Given, he didn't abust the boxes, but he sure saw and heard plenty and it was one of many reasons he quit his job.

And yes, the couple of times I shipped a reptile, it was packed as secure and careful as humanely possible, that should always be the case. The box was linen on ALL sided in 3/4 inch styrofoam, inside of that were plenty of Popcorn styro and in the middle was the container that held the reptile. The container itself contained some papertowles, so that the reptile would not be thrown around in its container.
During colder weather a 48 hour. heatpack was placed near the container, but not touching it.

I don't understand why some people ship so carelessly, it really isnt' that hard to do it correctly.

As to the postoffice being able to legally open the package. That STILL depends on the Postoffice and its staff.
A lot of them don't even know their OWN laws and regulations, and obviosly the buyer already contacted them and they weren't willing to help.

My thoughts are for the Beardeds....I hope they went into brummation.

And I still would like to see Jeff Grassi pay , and PAY DEARLY, for his actions. The buyer was told to return the beardies and that things would be made good. He returned them even though he didn't hear back, but he also knew that the seller WAS AWARE of the beardeds coming. The seller is also AWARE of them sitting at the post office, as we speak.

He is surely the lowest of the scammers. Its not just about money, its about him letting his reptiles die a slow death, because he will benefit from it.

Hope he will get turned in to any and every agency there is, and I sure hope he will pay for his crime.
 
***UPDATE***
Jeff just called me from work, his wife received the beardies back and they are still ALIVE! Being hydratednow and trying to get a vet appointment for Monday. He'll update further when he gets off work, but he wanted to pass that on to anyone who cares and I told him I'd post it up here for y'all.
 
That is great news. I hope they make a full recovery. I also hope that Jeff is successful in getting his money back. Thanks for giving us the update. I think it is safe to say that everybody here cares about the well being of the beardies involved.

Wendy Thomas
 
AMazing little creatures, after everything they went through, the suffering, and they are alive! Wonderful isnt it. I'm sure if the buyer doens't want to keep them there would be plenty of people on fauna here that would buy them to give them a good home!
I am very happy now knowing they are alive still.
 
wonderful news

What wonderful news...:) I'm thrilled.

Now, back to business...

I hope something can/will be done about the Jeff Grassi dude.

:hot:
 
Another Update....

The beardies are doing great. Yesterday we bathed them twice, both drank very well. They ate a salad yesterdays and one ate live roach nymphs today. They seem to be thriving little guys and although one is a little dark from being stressed, i'm confident they will make a full recovery. The one with the chewed, but not nipped tail has a small nip, probably due to her sister getting a little hungry on their long journey. I will follow up with a vet visit first thing tomorrow morning to ensure that their parasites haven't got out of hand due to the stress of the trip.

I have still not heard anything from the low life and I am going to persue in full force any action I can take to get a full refund, plus all expenses. I hope everyone watches this guy and helps me take him down every time he posts an auction or a classified so he will never sell on the net again! His best interest is to refund me money and be done with this, but I'm sure he'll sit back and enjoy the ride as long as he can. Thanks again to any and all who have helped me in this situation.

I might possibly put these girls up for adoption in a month or so as I have enough beardie pets and I wont use them for any breeding projects. If there is anyone interested in paying the shipping charges with their carrier of choice please e-mail me at [email protected]

Jeff Janes
(931) 249-1119
 
Excellent news, Jeff!!!

Could you possibly post ALL info you have on this guy? Name, address, any forum/classifieds user names, etc. All the info you can provide us, in case he tries to change one of them we can still identify him with the other info.
 
ShannanD25 said:
AMazing little creatures, after everything they went through, the suffering, and they are alive! Wonderful isnt it. I'm sure if the buyer doens't want to keep them there would be plenty of people on fauna here that would buy them to give them a good home!
I am very happy now knowing they are alive still.
Click to expand...

Who wrote this and what have you done with Crucifien' Shannon?

On another note, when it does come time for crucifien' Shannon, you can race me to the top of the hill to see who gets to put in the first spike.

Okey Dokey?

Just in case you're wondering, that was SUPPOSED to be humorous, perhaps even eliciting a chuckle or two. I hate failure so you had best have laughed.
 
Jeff....Thanks for the update. This must have been one wild ride for you. I am happy you have the Beardies in your possesion but I am upset that you got ripped off. I am also confident in your responses that you thought you were doing all you could and I know that $400 is alot of money to be taken. As much as the BOI does work and is a huge benefit to the community it can leave some questions not fully understood or to other people's liking. I think you handled the situation here well and consider you a stand up guy.

I wish you the best in future dealings and you might want to consider putting those little guys up on the fauna fund. I wouldn't mind putting some bids on them. It's about time I get some four legged animals in my collection besides feeder rats.

take care-

bthacker
 
wilomn said:
Who wrote this and what have you done with Crucifien' Shannon?

On another note, when it does come time for crucifien' Shannon, you can race me to the top of the hill to see who gets to put in the first spike.

Okey Dokey?

Just in case you're wondering, that was SUPPOSED to be humorous, perhaps even eliciting a chuckle or two. I hate failure so you had best have laughed.
Click to expand...

Just in case this does NOT read as I intended I was NOT referring to crucifying Shannon, but was referring to the NEXT time it was necessary I would race HER to the top of the hill then to see who got first dibs.

I don't have anything against Shannon.
 
wilomn said:
Just in case this does NOT read as I intended I was NOT referring to crucifying Shannon, but was referring to the NEXT time it was necessary I would race HER to the top of the hill then to see who got first dibs.

I don't have anything against Shannon.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying!! I think that might have been misread by some.

bthacker
 
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