Need opinions on a bad deal with Tim Bowles of Arboreals of the Rainforest!!!

[Ghi Reptiles]

Again nice twisting King Lerer. This is the only type of

Not twisting Tim. Here it is again:

Also I never saw it but I have been told by several people that you put something in the internet about injecting emeralds that are dehydrated and discussed how to do it. Is that true?

How is any of that twisted?

If I am King Lerer can I call you Court Jester Bowles? J/K!

 

[Ghi Reptiles]

Got her back from the vet a little while ago and she seems to have absorbed some more of the fluid but there is still some present. She also seems to have some 'denting' in her muscles in some areas, she is weak, and her skin is loose but she is still as pretty as ever Here are a couple of pics I just snapped:

This is an area that seems to be retaining some fluid

This is an upper body shot. This is where she seems a bit thin and her skin is a little loose

This is her head as if you couldn't tell! Very loose skin still around the lower jaw and neck area

I would have moved her around for the pics but she seems almost sore when I touch her in the belly area. All in all she seems a little upbeat but still far from the animal I was expecting. In the condition she is in today I would still never sell an animal like this to anyone.

 

[Randy Bennett]

Sick new locale

I have seen a head shot of the snake in question.There is NO
WAY that animal got in that
condition overnight due to shipping.If you have a sick snake, you shouldn't sell it.
PERIOD.NO matter how much someone want's it.Anyone that keeps emeralds well can take one look at that snake and KNOW that that animal is sick, and has been for some time.It should not have been shipped out to anyone,
and honestly I feel sorry for the snake.It WAS at one time a very beautiful animal.Obviously
Tim,you have a grudge against Matt.We all really could care less about that.But when YOU send an animal out in that condition, what do you expect to happen?We have all read the 30
some page thread about you and
joe P.I would hate to see this go on like that, because your
credibility is on the line here
and because of the condition of that animal, YOU DON'T STAND A
CHANCE of convincing anyone that that snake was healthy when you sent it out.Bite the bullet,return Matt's money, and review your husbandry practices.
I'd like to think you are a good guy,but if you let this go on and on, and around and around,
your credibility will be toast!
Is it really worth It? Think
about it and do the right thing.
Don't let this get out of hand.

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Tim,

There is no way you can sit there and honestly say or think that the condition that animal is in is due to the shipping. That is a pre-existing situation that was well before the shipping and most likely the injections were done right before sticking her in the box to ship her. I would highly suggest that you take responsibility for your actions and refund his money for the snake. There is nothing your going to say that is going to make it look like she obtained the fluids under her skin and dehydration from the shipping. If it is true that you are selling off your collection, I hope that none of the other animals are in this sad of shape and you don't try and pull this with someone else.

 

[Classic Dum's]

Tim, a simple yes or no will do, (1)did you shot the animals up with some kind of fluid??????????
(2)If the answer is yes please explain why?????
I am sure I am not the only person sitting here scratching my head wondering why you would ship an animal in that condition. There seems to be a rash of people getting out of the hobby here latly and igniting every bridge they pass. I hope that isnt the case with you, however if you post agin within this thread and ignore question one or answer it with anything but a yes or no, Ill have no choice but to rank ya up there with Fred Albury, matt Martin and Joe P(who you so loved poking fun at). If the answer is yes please explain why you would ship an animal in that condition.

 

[Ghi Reptiles]

Hey Jason,

When I asked Tim wednesday night he said no. Since mid day wednesday up until today I have shown the pics to about ten guys who are some of the best when it comes to arboreals and one of them is definately one of the true pioneers of arboreal husbandry and they all had the same opinion that this happened. Me I couldn't tell you but it sure is weird. Even the two vets that examined her came to the same conclusion. I hope she does alright but for now she is a little weak.

 

[Nett]

I am a vet tech at a small animal clinic (15yrs)and have given enough SQ injections to dehydrated snakes to know what it looks likes........And that snake looks like it was given a HUGE amount of SQ fluids ....Also I am wondering if she was also tube fed fluids and ended up puking in the sack.........Is that why it was all wet ??????She must have been very dehydrated to start with due to the loose skin on the parts of her body that werent filled with fluid......Hopefully she wasnt given a lethel dose .......Animals have been know to drown from an over dose of fluids.....

I hate to think that someone like Tim would do this ........

 

[Marcial Mendez]

Wow

I've just spent the last hour reading this post in disbelief... I feel sorry for that poor animal. I know that Tim usually likes to sit pretty high & mighty when critiquing other deals gone bad... just like Neil Gubitz did... we know what kind of guy he turned out to be. Now I'm no expert when it comes to injections, but I feel 100% certain that whatever happened to that snake did not happen as a result of shipping. The whole deal just sounds fishy... Tim selling off his collection, etc. Plus, I know he's a nurse, so he would have access to syringes...

 

[Classic Dum's]

Plus, I know he's a nurse, so he would have access to syringes...

You can get them at any farm feed store for withy a large animal vet .25 or so, so they arnt hard to come by.

When I asked Tim wednesday night he said no

Thanks dude but I want to read his answer to my questions.

(1)did you shot the animals up with some kind of fluid??????????
(2)If the answer is yes please explain why?????
QUOTE] They still stand Tim, as I said before #1 a simple yes or no will do, if the answer is yes then please answer #2.

 

[Nett]

Matt,

Is there any chance of getting a full body pic from the side as well as from the top ??????? I would like to see if she has the classic long tube like fills u would get from large amounts of fluid injected under the skin........

 

[WebSlave]

(1)did you shot the animals up with some kind of fluid??????????

I think that should be reworded slightly:

(1) Did you, or anyone else via your guidance or within your knowledge, shoot that animal up with some kind of fluid?

 

[Sybella]

I was going to stay out of this, as I have no connection with either party but I am worried for that snake.

Matt, please...if you can, keep that snake and make her better. The poor thing! I'm afraid that if you did send her back, she wouldn't survive.

I agree that you should get a lawyer.

 

[Ghi Reptiles]

Got up this morning and checked on her and she is the same as yesterday so I guess that's not a bad thing. At least she is not laying on the bottom, she is actually in loose coils on her perch. Her skin feels tacky and wet.....kind of like a fresh shed does.

As far as the lawyer thing, Tim expressed to me wednesday night something like, if I was to sue I am in Florida and he is in Ohio and I know how that works. It is next to impossible to collect a judgement from out of state and he and I know that because we have discussed it many times when Joe P. was threatening to sue him. Tim also knows that if I filed suit in his county, when the hearing time arrives he can request a continuence and it would be granted. That means I would have to fly back and forth to Florida a few times before possibly getting lucky and actually having a hearing.

On the brighter side...I have spoken to people in the Franklin county courthouse (Tim's county) and they have new methods of the way hearings are scheduled. Now, if there is someone coming from out of state you can ask for a continuence once and it has to arrive in writing at least seven days before the hearing date and there has to be a legitimate excuse for the continuence. I was also told that the system now frowns on the 'games' aspect of the request for a continuence and it would probably aggrivate the judge anyway. Tim knows that the most I can sue for in small claims in franklin county is not much but it would cover the cost of the animal. I will have to check monday morning If I can be compensated for the phone calls, the vet bill (which is closing in on $400.00 and probably a few hundred more to go), airline ticket and if I had to change it once, that change fee, hotel, and expenses.

It still blows my mind that in my opinion I was 'played' for two years by someone I thought was my friend........WOW!

 

[Ghi Reptiles]

Hey Rich,

You know...when I asked him on the phone that same question wednesday night, there were those few seconds of complete silence, time enough to think, oh S***, no way, I can't believe it, or many other things. If you didn't do it wouldn't you immediately snap something like, are you out of your mind?, what are you crazy?, c'mon dude I would never do anything like that!, or a hundred other things, he didn't. I am not saying he did but there is a long list of pros in the business that saw the pics and say that in their opinions...he did. Even the two vets said they couldn't believe how much came out of her! When I first brought her in she was real bad making all kinds of gurgling noises, rumbling noises in her belly, and arching sections of her body when they would be touched. There was even a point when I was holding her that when I put her down on the table her body was upside down and her head turned upside down and we thought that was it...obviously not. She seems to be a survivor! Hopefully when I try to feed her she will accept food and not bafoogah it a few days later.

I have been waiting to see if Tim was willing to do the right thing and take her back but he will not respond to me via e-mail or answer his phone. He asked me to e-mail him so whatever I say was on paper and I did and this is what we said:

Sorry I forgot you won't pick up the phone. Between you and me...I promise to never utter a word about it...what's going on with the snake? You know I have a nice collection and this animal is bad news! What happened to her? And like I said before if you hydrated her I just want to know the truth. I think after the last two years of fronting you snakes you owe me this much. Call me if you want.

Here is his response:

But it's fitting, as that is what you are doing to the truth.

I would like to know Tim's version of the deal we made! Mine is that if anything happened to the animal during shipping he wasn't responsible. Anything more than that and I would be an idiot. I am not sure what Tim's version is but it doesn't seem to be anything like that.

TIM WOULD YOU PLEASE COME ON HERE AND TELL ME WHAT THE EXACT DEAL WE MADE WAS.

The above is what we said but if you feel it was something different please let me know on this board.

Thanks!

 

[Classic Dum's]

I agree

(1) Did you, or anyone else via your guidance or within your knowledge, shoot that animal up with some kind of fluid?

Tim if the answer to the is yes, please answer #2

(2)If the answer is yes please explain why?????

 

[Urban Jungles]

dumbass?

Tim, there is no need for name calling, it's simply not necessary. I wanted to address you PM to me here in order to hopefully get some answers...

read it better dumbass

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the only type of
post on the entire WWW that I posted with any reference to injections.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


All have been related to URI treatments.

Quit butt sniffing Danny.

It doesnt become you.
__________________
Tim Bowles
Arboreals of the Rainforest
http://www.greentreesnakes.com

Take heed when playing with the big dogs... 'cause if you aint with the pack, you're nothin' but a chew toy.

All posts are my opinion only. Enjoy them as entertainment. I know I do.

Yes, but on Corallus.com (part of the www last time I checked) you posted in reply to someone that you recommend injecting lactated ringer's solution intot he snake's body to hydrate it when using Amakacin because,

" Normal drinking is not enough to help flush the kidneys. "

In your post you said you have never made any reference to injecting snakes yet here you recommend the EXACT proceedure that is suspected of putting this animal in the state that it's in...

See why it's looking fishy to me Tim? You can't say "this is the ONLY reference to injections posted on the www" when a search on corallus.com says otherwise. I have re-read it Tim, and come up with the same conclusion...unlike the snake you sent, your defense itsn't holding much water.

 

[Gary O]

Hello everyone

Matt

I read a thread on my board and was lost in all this. I did not know what was going on. Well I was told there was a nice size thread here so I came on over. I now am caught up to speed(well not all the way)

I have some questions for you and Tim.

Matt

1)Could you post full body shots of the snake now and before you sold it to Tim in the same post?

2)Do you have pics of the snake in the bag and pics of the bag and paper inside?

3)Could you post anything from the vet?

4)When did you sell this snake to Tim?

I ask when you sold the snake to Tim because I seen it would take a very long time to get this way. I am not saying you sold a sick animal in any way. But I am just wondering how long it was in Tim's care.

Tim

1)Do you have pics of the snake in the past 2 months? Like said before it would take a long time to get to that way.

2)Do you have a pic of the box and bagged snake before shipping?

3)How did the animal come to you when you bought it?

4)Was the snake injected at all?

5)Was the snake eating before you shipped?(just wondering about the answer)

I am trying not to jump on sides here now, but look at everything I can and get some questions answered. I know they may be dumb but some may help this whole thing out.

So I will go with this and be back later to read some more.

Bye everyone.

 

[Tom Burns]

Tim,
I hate to see you going down this road, bro. I've always considered you to be a good guy and a friend, so I'm actually not gonna participate in this thread any more than this one post. My thoughts on this very much parallel those of Danny. Kinda shocked and disappointed. I don't want to believe it, but c'mon, it's pretty obvious what has happened here. Do the right thing.

Tom Burns

 

[Ghi Reptiles]

Hey Gary,

I have some questions for you and Tim.

Matt

1)Could you post full body shots of the snake now and before you sold it to Tim in the same post?

Now

Before

2)Do you have pics of the snake in the bag and pics of the bag
and paper inside?

No pics of the snake in the bag. There was no paper in the bag but this is what the bag was sitting on.

3)Could you post anything from the vet?
I will have to find a way to scan the results and a letter. I can actually take a pic of it. I have to pick up the rest of the results today along with the letter. What I have so far is the bloodsugar, TP, ALB, GLOB, and glucose are almost non-exhistant. The liver functions are not great. The kidneys seem to be fine but they say there was so much solution in the animal that it could have cleansed the kidneys?

4)When did you sell this snake to Tim?
Last october

I ask when you sold the snake to Tim because I seen it would take a very long time to get this way. I am not saying you sold a sick animal in any way. But I am just wondering how long it was in Tim's care.

My vets also said this was a long term thing and that the animal looked like it has been through a long rough time.

Hope this helps you Gary.
Matt

 

[Gary O]

Thanks Matt!

Now that you posted the pics again I seen that you already did that sorry. My computer did not load all the pics last time(My PC is junk).

So This snake had to be mistreated for along time to get to this state? That is ashame.