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Need opinions on a bad deal with Tim Bowles of Arboreals of the Rainforest!!!

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Matt,
I was going to suggest putting her down, but I kow some people from on that (as do I at times).
Sad, but I brought in a little import ball a few months ago. NICE gold coloration, white around some of the pattern etc. The little thing NEVER drank.........litterraly, NEVER ate, and was so thin. I have soaked it in water for 24-48 hours at a time, tried feeding it every other day for 2 months. Lots of lose skin, and last night was the worst (I would check on it every day or day). I came home from a unsuccessful herping adventure, checked all my snakes like I do every morning and night (and 100 times in between...lol), anyway, I opened the little shoebox I had it in and it stunk.........bad. Keep in mind, the bottom was dry, no urates or anything. I picked it up and on top of the fact that it was like a shoestring hanging in my hand, there was a lump approx. 2" long starting about 1/2" above the vent the thickness of a permanent marker. I felt it lightly (slight squeeze) and it was not hard, but it had small "ball type" objects within the lump. They would not break down as I added pressure and I KNOW it was not fecies. Like I said, I have NEVER had it eat and never seen anything in the bottom of the shoebox that would represent waste matter of any type. Long story short (well not really I am done now), I put it down.
Point is, like you were saying, I hate to know a snake is not doing well. I honestly felt there was no hope and thought it would be best.......maybe I am wrong, but there was zero progress of any kind. As a side note, please don't ask where it came from as I feel this had nothing to do with the seller. It was just the chance you take with an import. Not his fault and not mad, I would buy from him again.
I have only had to put one other snake down in my 15 years of working with snakes and it sucks.
Whatever the decision, I know you have tried your best.
Brian Oakley
 
I am sorry

I am sorry to see this happen to this nice snake. It is bad that someone would let it get this far. I am glad now that we didnt buy any of the snakes he was trying to sell us a few weeks ago. He was trying his best to get us to buy some from him. I hate to say it but I would have made a trip to where he lives and he wouldnt have been happy for my visit. That is alot of money to put out on a snake that looks that bad. It just makes me ill he is not man enough to answer any of the questions asked here. I guess he aint a man at all is he? I hate to see you put the snake down but it has suffered long enough. I dont think I could have waited this long to do it. I wish things would turn around for you Matt. Good luck with everything!
 
Tim,
I think you need to give Matt a refund ASAP. Whatever happened to that snake was not the fault of UPS in this instance (Although I still would only use UPS as a last resort!). I think you must have treated that snake for a bad RI or something over the winter, using alot of lactated ringer injections...probably too many ringers at that!...and as I know, emeralds do not always recoup well from such maladies. Often anorexia can result from the antibiotics,etc.

I think you should come clean on this Tim. Your initial responce to Matt sounded like you were grabbing at straws. Cheap shots, calling him King Lerer, criticising him for living with his parents. Matt's parents are in their 70's. I lived with my mother up until she died at the young age of 62 and don't feel a bit ashamed nor do I regret it for one minute. Also, you referred to the fact that Matt talked you into selling that new Locale. I have one that Matt has been trying to buy back for two years now. Everytime he calls me he bugs me about it LoL. know that to be part of Matt's character. You should have said NO to him on this one. I'm sure you now are wishing you had...Please give Matt a full refund Tim!! Do the right thing...

John Hedger
 
Matt, I know that kind of snake likes to coil up on branches but I can't help but wonder if it's bad for her right now. Does she have the strength to get down and get a drink on her own? Maybe you should restrict her to a small box with nothing to climb on so she doesn't have to work to get water. Just a suggestion...that last picture nearly brought me to tears and it occured to me that this may be an overlooked problem.

Please don't put her down tonight...Can you give her a couple more days? I'm rooting for her to pull out of it.
 
Thanks John but from what I hear through the grapevine Tim is getting quite a kick out of this so I am sure no refund of his own free will is going to be issued. I am putting her down in the morning and having a necropsy done for use later. She is very sluggish now and has retained fluid in some sections of her body and her head is swaying back and forth from left to right. I don't think it is fair to let her suffer any longer.

With all of the pics, lab studies, results from another lab in Miami, and necropsy, it will all be very clear what happened to her and it will all be down on paper. I have been trying to get a hold of Tim to discuss all of this but he won't answer my calls or e-mails so I don't think he even cares.

Thanks again Hedge!
 
Sorry man

I'm sorry to hear about all of this Matt, I hope it all works out for the best meng.





Dan Pitre
 
Ghi Reptiles said:
Thanks John but from what I hear through the grapevine Tim is getting quite a kick out of this so I am sure no refund of his own free will is going to be issued.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, that's wierd. Why would Tim be laughing about all this? That's very strange.

John Hedger
 
Yes Matt, I guess he has swiped some of his money back for the high end snakes that you gratiously and patiently gave him months to pay off !!

JHedger
 
Matt

I know that Paypal, by their TOS, will not do much regarding claims on live animals but have you at least explored that option? If the PayPal payment came from your credit card rather than your checking acount you may have a shot at bypassing PayPal and going directly to your credit card company and reversing the charge.

Tim's silence and reluctance to answer direct questions put to him regarding this matter is an obvious indication that this is the only way you will get this problem rectified.



Good Luck
 
Too bad he doesn't live in my city. He wouldn't be laughing too much after I came knocking on his door, slapped the cuffs on, and hauled his sorry butt to the County Jail.

One word Tim...Fraud

Your terms of service mean nothing when you KNOWINGLY mis-represent what you are selling. Matt has already presented enough evidence for a prima facia case of fraud. After the Vet reports and necropsy come back, you are toast. I would settle this civily before the police get involved and its too late.

Matt, contact the police departments where you live and where Tim lives and file reports with both. The amount of money involved in this should make it a pretty stiff felony. And don't let them say "we'll get back to you." After a couple of weeks, call them back and ask for a progress report. Do this every week until it is resolved. Squeeky wheels always get the attention.
 
I have personally seen Tim's collection and I am sure that anyone that has seen it as well can vouch for the time taken for each snake at the high level of care given to all in his collection. I opened up each of his cages (with his permission to take pictures and look at snakes I could not yet afford!) and saw all strong and healthy snakes. I find this very odd to be coming from Tim and I am not going to do the bandwagon effect that happens to almost every thread on this board (just read the threads... they almost always favor the person recieving the snake).

I see nothing wrong with having someone listen in on phone deals. I personally would never do an oral aggreement without a witness present and I do not know many good businessmen that would do one either.

I would like to see a scanned in copy of the vet records.

To me, this sound exteremely odd, as many of you have know Tim for quite some time now from this boards and shows, this is not in his character. After Tim's dealings with Joe, he has shown to take great pride in the health and happiness of his arboreals (I'll admit it.. my enclosures aren't even a portion as nice as Tim's.. but I am working on that!!).. and an even greater pride in helping consumers buy from quality breeders.
 
Scott,
Everything you say about Tim's care for his collection was my impression too. That's why this whole thing is so shocking to all of us!! It seems very bizarre to me that this could ever happen!! Why is Tim so tacet about the whole thing? Did he feel that Matt screwed him on a previous deal and is taking this opportunity to get revenge?

I recall Tim thanking Matt on more than one occasion for fronting him some really great animals. What has happened here?
John Hedger
 
Hey Hedge,

Yes Matt, I guess he has swiped some of his money back for the high end snakes that you gratiously and patiently gave him months to pay off !!
Click to expand...

Yeah like the last one I sold him that ended up costing me $2,000.00 and he paid me...$1,300.00 out of the $2,000.00 I charged him. The female NL cost me $2,500.00 which is exactly what I charged him, so I had to fork up $1,200.00 for the NL female. Sent by wire Transfer to boot. (Wire Fraud?)

Anyway Scott...I am not talking about the rest of Tim's collection here...just one and sometimes two snakes. I am sure the resy of his collection is stellar but these weren't, especially the NL female.

I see nothing wrong with having someone listen in on phone deals. I personally would never do an oral aggreement without a witness present and I do not know many good businessmen that would do one either.
Click to expand...

With a friend? C'mon
 
Why is Tim so tacet about the whole thing? Did he feel that Matt screwed him on a previous deal and is taking this opportunity to get revenge?
Click to expand...

Maybe it had to do with the 'Basin' that arrived with 'resp'. I immediately returned it and it still has it. Maybe that ticked him off who knows.
 
Hey Scott,

I'm sorry you feel that business has to be done that way:( . Unfortunately for me I have always trusted others. Maybe that's my downfall in todays society.
 
Not taking sides on this deal, but only responding to the "accountability" issue, I think someones word is a way of being accountable. Unfortunately people like to think otherwise and change stories.
So Scott, are you saying that you do not make ANY deals over the phone OR the web (email) without someone listening in or reading each and every post? I suppose there is nothing wrong with it, it does cover you a$$, but how sad it is to even THINK that you would have to do such a thing.
I can understand having all the facts and arrangements/agreements done via email so you have "record", but what you are saying is a lttle extreme. Like I said, if you are covering your tail, that is all that matters I suppose. I personally have never had to go to such lengths to make a deal on the selling end OR the buying end.
 
I am not going to do the bandwagon effect that happens to almost every thread on this board (just read the threads... they almost always favor the person recieving the snake).
Click to expand...

Actually they usually favor the side of the person that has presented overwhelming evidence in their favor. In this case, that would be Matt. Tim is fully aware of this thread but is unable or unwilling to respond to any of the questions that have been asked of him.
Of course, he doesn't have to answer any questions asked of him on this board and since he's most likely going to end up in court it might be wise for him to keep his mouth shut. Still, he shouldn't be suprised when he can't give his emeralds away after pulling some crap like this.
 
Chris,
You bring up a good point. Like I stated before, I have bought (well traded) from Tim in the past. The ETB were exactly what I was told they would be, healthy, slert, good body weight, good length, etc. The day before I read this post, I would have referred anyone to him. I just feel so torn because MY dealings were perfect, but it is quite apparent that this deal is the true definition of imperfect!
Does not mean he is not a good guy to talk to, email with, and things like that. On the other hand, there would not be a chance of me buying from him again.......he would have to come here and explain to EVERYONE what he knows, in detail, whether he might feel it to be relevant in his eyes to the deal or not. Unfortunately, even then, I am not so sure I would give up my hard raised animals or hard earned cash with him again.
This is the most unbelievable thread I have read on the BOI in 3 years. You see alot of trash talking, alot of mud slinging, and alot of egos, but here you do not get that high tension feeling. You just read disappointing, sad, unbelievable, unimaginative, heartbreaking facts.
Just my opinion.
 
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