ScottsReptiles
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Tom Burns said:
Turning me into a bad guy eh? lol thats nice.. thanks
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Need opinions on a bad deal with Tim Bowles of Arboreals of the Rainforest!!!
- Thread starter Ghi Reptiles
- Start date
- Status
Turning me into a bad guy eh? lol thats nice.. thanks
ScottsReptiles
New member
Re: Preliminary Vet Report
Not much to say after that. Thanks for posting that information.. takes all the guesses and estimations away from really all future discussions!
Ghi Reptiles said:
Not much to say after that. Thanks for posting that information.. takes all the guesses and estimations away from really all future discussions!
ScottsReptiles
New member
Ritchie Luna said:
Sorry.. to me.. when someone wants to waive part of their TOS to sell a snake.. thats a big red flag to me and I will stay far away from that sale.
Its not acceptable.. but.. it can be done. I never said I agreed with that tatic. I always pride myself in honesty when it comes to sales.
Ghi Reptiles
Home of the 'Red Hots'
I hope the preliminary vet report helped some of you that were interested in seeing it. As you can see from reading it, the snake was in bad shape for some time. She is currently holding on and a couple of the vet techs are diong their best for her. I checked on her today and she was lying on the bottom of her cage and the skin seemed a bit looser. I don't know what would posess someone to do this and I could never imagine doing anything remotely like it. Scott I also hope your curiosity has been satisified. I have recieved some e-mail sort of bashing you but I understand where you are coming from.
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
It seems there is little doubt that this snake was ill BEFORE shipping. Matt, please post evidence that the snake came with any sort of guarantee. I have to ask you for all of this because Tim is not posting. Please also explain how/why you feel Tim's TOS are still in place, as there seems to be some contention on that point.
Now here's the horrible part of this story. There really isn't anything anyone can do about this. Court is an option, but how much could one really get? Small claims is limited, outright sueing him is another option but how much are you willing to spend to POSSIBLY get back $2500. If Tim is willing to take the bashing his reputation will get from this, he will get away with your $2500.
NEW RULE: IF YOU CAN NOT AFFORD TO LOSE THE MONEY YOU ARE SENDING SOMEONE FOR AN INTERNET TRANSACTION INVOLVING A REPTILE, DO NOT SEND THE MONEY. GO PICK UP THE ANIMAL YOURSELF. IF THAT IS NOT AN OPTION, THEN YOU REALLY DON'T NEED THAT ANIMAL THAT BADLY.
Now here's the horrible part of this story. There really isn't anything anyone can do about this. Court is an option, but how much could one really get? Small claims is limited, outright sueing him is another option but how much are you willing to spend to POSSIBLY get back $2500. If Tim is willing to take the bashing his reputation will get from this, he will get away with your $2500.
NEW RULE: IF YOU CAN NOT AFFORD TO LOSE THE MONEY YOU ARE SENDING SOMEONE FOR AN INTERNET TRANSACTION INVOLVING A REPTILE, DO NOT SEND THE MONEY. GO PICK UP THE ANIMAL YOURSELF. IF THAT IS NOT AN OPTION, THEN YOU REALLY DON'T NEED THAT ANIMAL THAT BADLY.
David Reid
EmberBall
NEW RULE is rediculous...
How about we just go to Germany to pick up our new Porche? To Mexico to pick up our Corona....to England to pick up our Jag?
You seem to have this same lame idea about flying to pick up your reptile purchases on almost every post, give it a rest already, lame idea, not really doable for most, but maybe, just maybe if I was buying a Pied, for a good price, from someone I have never heard of.....NOT, would not do the deal in the first place!
It comes down to having legitimate and honest sellers....period. If someone is getting out of reptiles, and ships a sick animal, like some have said before, you may SPEND more than $2500 trying to get back your $2500. They do not care about their reputation any longer.
I have purchased over 35 Ball Pythons over the net AND in person. I have had all the deals go through, without really any hitches. Am I lucky, maybe, but I also do a thorough search and background check on the sellers, or, just buy from Stone, Kahl, Sharp etc. I would put the Sutherland's in here, but I live only 2 hrs from them, so do not need shipping when buying from them
Dave
How about we just go to Germany to pick up our new Porche? To Mexico to pick up our Corona....to England to pick up our Jag?
You seem to have this same lame idea about flying to pick up your reptile purchases on almost every post, give it a rest already, lame idea, not really doable for most, but maybe, just maybe if I was buying a Pied, for a good price, from someone I have never heard of.....NOT, would not do the deal in the first place!
It comes down to having legitimate and honest sellers....period. If someone is getting out of reptiles, and ships a sick animal, like some have said before, you may SPEND more than $2500 trying to get back your $2500. They do not care about their reputation any longer.
I have purchased over 35 Ball Pythons over the net AND in person. I have had all the deals go through, without really any hitches. Am I lucky, maybe, but I also do a thorough search and background check on the sellers, or, just buy from Stone, Kahl, Sharp etc. I would put the Sutherland's in here, but I live only 2 hrs from them, so do not need shipping when buying from them
Dave
dwedeking
Member
Your right. Logically getting Matt's money back will be more time consuming than it's worth. Course if it was my $2,500 or even $5 that a supposed friend went out of his way to screw me over I think I'd throw logic out the window and make this as much as an inconvenience for him as it's been for Matt.
If someone purposely sent me a sick $5 dragon you'd still see a post on here warning others away from him.
Yes Tim seems to have gotten away with $2,500. Wow, got the quick buck and that's it. There's a number of people out there looking to spend money on higher end snakes and they are reading this thread (I know because I am one that is "flagging" funds for a purchase after bearded dragon season is done). I think Tim's loss of sales is going to be quite larger than $2,500.
If someone purposely sent me a sick $5 dragon you'd still see a post on here warning others away from him.
Yes Tim seems to have gotten away with $2,500. Wow, got the quick buck and that's it. There's a number of people out there looking to spend money on higher end snakes and they are reading this thread (I know because I am one that is "flagging" funds for a purchase after bearded dragon season is done). I think Tim's loss of sales is going to be quite larger than $2,500.
ScottsReptiles
New member
Ghi Reptiles said:
As my previous post had said.. it as definately satisfied any doubt that I had and cleared up any misconceptions that I had by not knowing the full facts.
Yea.. I figured someone out there would bash me.. I tend to get that because I have the ability to turn the emotional side of the brain off and just look at the facts... and I like to pry until I can see all the facts and make an informed decision. That usually ticks people off.... ah well.. what can you do though.
I wish I could give you some advice with the sick emerald... I have not been able to successfully bring back emeralds that have been in positions similar (and worse believe it or not) to yours. But.. thats probably why I like aboreals as much as I do.. they are not easy by any means... always a challenge!
Ghi Reptiles
Home of the 'Red Hots'
I was just on Tim Bowles website, Arboreals of the rainforest and while going through his Terms Page I noticed This:
You can't be serious! LOL!
Here she is in all of her Arboreals of the Rainforest glory!
Not to complain but at $2,500.00 for this.....I am definately NOT satisfied and I don't believe that you can possibly care about the well being of this animal, but that's just my opinion.
All I am looking for Tim is for you to do the right thing here. I think a full refund is in order and like I said before I will cover the expenses at the vets place which now exceed $500.00 and I will not pursue any further action. You have my number and you know my e-mail.
You can't be serious! LOL!
Here she is in all of her Arboreals of the Rainforest glory!
Not to complain but at $2,500.00 for this.....I am definately NOT satisfied and I don't believe that you can possibly care about the well being of this animal, but that's just my opinion.
All I am looking for Tim is for you to do the right thing here. I think a full refund is in order and like I said before I will cover the expenses at the vets place which now exceed $500.00 and I will not pursue any further action. You have my number and you know my e-mail.
Dave,
Please reread the rule, it says "involving a reptile." There is no need to go and pick up your brand new car. There are established rules in this country which govern such pruchases. Lemon laws etc. There are no rules which REALLY (reread that) do us much good.
Up until this post, he was. Period...errr...maybe a comma...or something.
Buying a $5-150 ball isn't what I'm talking about. Buying an animal worth thousands of dollars is what I'm talking about. I think when a plane ticket to pick up the animal is less than 20% of the purchase price, it makes sense to go get it. Look the seller in the eye, look the animal over, AVOID nasty-a$$ situations like this and not lose $1000-2000-10,000!!!!
Please reread the rule, it says "involving a reptile." There is no need to go and pick up your brand new car. There are established rules in this country which govern such pruchases. Lemon laws etc. There are no rules which REALLY (reread that) do us much good.
Up until this post, he was. Period...errr...maybe a comma...or something.
Buying a $5-150 ball isn't what I'm talking about. Buying an animal worth thousands of dollars is what I'm talking about. I think when a plane ticket to pick up the animal is less than 20% of the purchase price, it makes sense to go get it. Look the seller in the eye, look the animal over, AVOID nasty-a$$ situations like this and not lose $1000-2000-10,000!!!!
David Reid
EmberBall
As with anything, some deals go bad! How many high end ball or boa sales are there every day, how many, what percent end up going bad,,,,,very small percentage. If you are buying a $10K animal in AZ and live like I do in CA, yeah, I might take a drive to pick the animal up, and look it over, but for a $2500 snake, I do not think I would fly across the country to get it.
Dave
Dave
GinoInDaBronx
Atticus Finch Clone
scumbags like tim
Hey guys,
Why dont you contact the SPCA in Ohio, and have tim
charged for animal abuse?
Also, you said that he is a nurse. Do you know where
he works? If so, go to the hospital's website and
start contacting the people higher up about this. A
person involved in caring for people can not also be
involved in the torture of helpless animals. Does
anyone else see the hypocrisy here?
Have you made K-Snake aware of this? Ask them to
pull his pivileges until he rectifies the problems.
Webslave, is it possible to yank his banner ads here?
tim obviously does not have the cajones to answer
these charges. tim, you much man! Me so impressed!
Sincerely,
Gino 'In Da Bronx' Beniquez
ps-if tim considers that a healty and saleable animal,
I wonder what his sick ones look like? lowlife...
Hey guys,
Why dont you contact the SPCA in Ohio, and have tim
charged for animal abuse?
Also, you said that he is a nurse. Do you know where
he works? If so, go to the hospital's website and
start contacting the people higher up about this. A
person involved in caring for people can not also be
involved in the torture of helpless animals. Does
anyone else see the hypocrisy here?
Have you made K-Snake aware of this? Ask them to
pull his pivileges until he rectifies the problems.
Webslave, is it possible to yank his banner ads here?
tim obviously does not have the cajones to answer
these charges. tim, you much man! Me so impressed!
Sincerely,
Gino 'In Da Bronx' Beniquez
ps-if tim considers that a healty and saleable animal,
I wonder what his sick ones look like? lowlife...
Dave, if the percentages were that low we wouldn't need the BOI. I would bet there are about 4-5 high-end transactions going on everyday. More at certain times of the year, less at others. That's about 150 per month. I would guess perhaps half of those take place 100% over the net or about 75, hell lets just say 100 for round numbers. I really don't think it's even that many, but I'm trying to see your point of view.
Let's say in 2 of those transactions the animal ends up dying, or being close to death upon arrival.
Let's say another 5 arrive with mysterious/misc symptoms or even mites.
Let's say 1 get lost in shipping.
Let's say 3 are missexed.
Let's say 9 are underweigth/length as compared to what the buyer was told.
And finally, let's say 1 arrives w/o the promised paperwork (genetics/CITES/etc)
Now these are the only problems I can think of which could be avoided by going and getting the animal yourself. There are others like the animal not eating which you could also check while you're there but I'll leave those out.
That, (I think), is a fair representation of what we see here. Now, the seller MAY fix all the problems that pop up. Or they might just tell you to stick it. If you get told to "stick it" one good time, (let's say on a $2500 purchase), I bet that $300 plane ticket will start looking a lot better to you.
Let's say in 2 of those transactions the animal ends up dying, or being close to death upon arrival.
Let's say another 5 arrive with mysterious/misc symptoms or even mites.
Let's say 1 get lost in shipping.
Let's say 3 are missexed.
Let's say 9 are underweigth/length as compared to what the buyer was told.
And finally, let's say 1 arrives w/o the promised paperwork (genetics/CITES/etc)
Now these are the only problems I can think of which could be avoided by going and getting the animal yourself. There are others like the animal not eating which you could also check while you're there but I'll leave those out.
That, (I think), is a fair representation of what we see here. Now, the seller MAY fix all the problems that pop up. Or they might just tell you to stick it. If you get told to "stick it" one good time, (let's say on a $2500 purchase), I bet that $300 plane ticket will start looking a lot better to you.
Steph Scranton
Love Bombed Pagan
It is a real shame to see that Tim has apparently turned over this new leaf. After all 14 pages of this I'm dumbfounded as although I never knew him personally, after his posts here and on other boards, I would have considered him one of the really good guys and never questioned buying from him.
I think regardless if you are getting out of the hobby or not, you should do the right thing. Selling crap snakes and running off with the money is not the right thing.
And as far as flying to pick up your expensive snake purchases, I think that is just not a possibility. The main problem being that, you can't bring the snake back with you!!! Pick out whichever one you want, but it would still be up to the seller to ship you the correct one. And heck, if you are dealing with a scumbag to begin with, chances are you'll get screwed no matter what. That is kind of what they do.
Also, I'm sorry, but I'm not wasting my hard earned money to buy roundtrip plane tickets all over the country when I see a snake that tickles my fancy.
Anyway, Matt, I hope that emmie pulls through for you man! I've got fingers crossed.
I think regardless if you are getting out of the hobby or not, you should do the right thing. Selling crap snakes and running off with the money is not the right thing.
And as far as flying to pick up your expensive snake purchases, I think that is just not a possibility. The main problem being that, you can't bring the snake back with you!!! Pick out whichever one you want, but it would still be up to the seller to ship you the correct one. And heck, if you are dealing with a scumbag to begin with, chances are you'll get screwed no matter what. That is kind of what they do.
Also, I'm sorry, but I'm not wasting my hard earned money to buy roundtrip plane tickets all over the country when I see a snake that tickles my fancy.
Anyway, Matt, I hope that emmie pulls through for you man! I've got fingers crossed.
ScottsReptiles
New member
Re: scumbags like tim
I've seen Tim's collection and to call him a scumbag for one snake is really over the top. I hope people don't forget all the good he has done on these boards. To attempt to get his business shut down and fired from his job is just wrong.
GinoInDaBronx said:
I've seen Tim's collection and to call him a scumbag for one snake is really over the top. I hope people don't forget all the good he has done on these boards. To attempt to get his business shut down and fired from his job is just wrong.
salito718
New member
Re: Re: scumbags like tim
OH REALLY?
so i guess blatantly ripping some one off for 2,500.00 dollars is just peachy...?
this may just as well be grand larceny, it is over 500 dollars, I am pretty sure that thats what would happen anyway. and good for him........
I mean lets be honest here, He is not even disputing anything being said here, he has basically admitted to everything since MATT made his case on the very first post, he came here with some BS about shipping, not denying anything else.... He knows that the thread exists and he he will no longer post because he knows everything being said by Matt is the truth..........
scumbag for real
ScottsReptiles said:
OH REALLY?
so i guess blatantly ripping some one off for 2,500.00 dollars is just peachy...?
this may just as well be grand larceny, it is over 500 dollars, I am pretty sure that thats what would happen anyway. and good for him........
I mean lets be honest here, He is not even disputing anything being said here, he has basically admitted to everything since MATT made his case on the very first post, he came here with some BS about shipping, not denying anything else.... He knows that the thread exists and he he will no longer post because he knows everything being said by Matt is the truth..........
scumbag for real
Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous
Resident Pollmeister
Big oopsy...
The post above made by Steph Scranton was actually made by me. She was logged on at my home computer and I forgot to log her out before posting this morning.
To reiterate, I Robert Hill made the above post, NOT Steph Scranton. Sorry for any confusion.
And Scott, I was not calling Tim a scumbag. I was saying that regardless if you go pick out a snake in person or over the net, if you deal with a scumbag, they will take advantage of you any way they can.
But honestly, I don't want to cast stones at Tim here, he HAS done alot of good on this board and others, BUT, he so far has had nothing to stand on against these accusations other than some BS story about UPS. I've recieved snakes and geckos through UPS numerous times, but never once have they opened a box, injected the animal with fluids, then packed it back up. Also, the snake was only in transit a relatively short time, not even 24 hours. Snakes don't end up like that in that short a period of time, even delicate snakes like Emeralds.
Also Scott, I remember another person that at one time did alot of good here that turned his back on his customers as well as this board. I think he went by the name, Neil Gubitz. I hate to throw Tim into that same category, but he hasn't really given us much else to go on has he?
The post above made by Steph Scranton was actually made by me. She was logged on at my home computer and I forgot to log her out before posting this morning.
To reiterate, I Robert Hill made the above post, NOT Steph Scranton. Sorry for any confusion.
And Scott, I was not calling Tim a scumbag. I was saying that regardless if you go pick out a snake in person or over the net, if you deal with a scumbag, they will take advantage of you any way they can.
But honestly, I don't want to cast stones at Tim here, he HAS done alot of good on this board and others, BUT, he so far has had nothing to stand on against these accusations other than some BS story about UPS. I've recieved snakes and geckos through UPS numerous times, but never once have they opened a box, injected the animal with fluids, then packed it back up. Also, the snake was only in transit a relatively short time, not even 24 hours. Snakes don't end up like that in that short a period of time, even delicate snakes like Emeralds.
Also Scott, I remember another person that at one time did alot of good here that turned his back on his customers as well as this board. I think he went by the name, Neil Gubitz. I hate to throw Tim into that same category, but he hasn't really given us much else to go on has he?
Marcial Mendez
New member
scumbag
Scott,
With all due respect, some of the things you have typed under this post are simply ridiculous. Do you really think that Matt purchased this snake for $2500 knowing that it was in the condition that it is? Where did Tim say that his TOS would not apply other than in regards to shipping?
Also, I must respond to your comment about "all the good Tim has done on this board." All I ever remember is him whining about it when people charge 3% on top of paypal purchases.
Friend or no friend, why do you keep defending him after all of this evidence has been presented against him? Is this your idea of a successful sale? As vocal as he usually is telling people what the right thing to do is, he cannot even say a peep in his own defense! He knows he ripped someone off & is doing the smart thing by staying quiet. However, after this thread and all of the big breeders and vets who have given their opinions on the situation, his reputation is now mush. Seeing his ad on this website touting his excellent customer service makes me sick.
Finally, if it were me he maliciously and knowingly screwed over, I would do everything in my power to make him pay in anyway that I could. This would include calling the SPCA, his work, or anyone else that would listen! After pulling a move like this, it's no holds barred IMO.
Scott,
With all due respect, some of the things you have typed under this post are simply ridiculous. Do you really think that Matt purchased this snake for $2500 knowing that it was in the condition that it is? Where did Tim say that his TOS would not apply other than in regards to shipping?
Also, I must respond to your comment about "all the good Tim has done on this board." All I ever remember is him whining about it when people charge 3% on top of paypal purchases.
Friend or no friend, why do you keep defending him after all of this evidence has been presented against him? Is this your idea of a successful sale? As vocal as he usually is telling people what the right thing to do is, he cannot even say a peep in his own defense! He knows he ripped someone off & is doing the smart thing by staying quiet. However, after this thread and all of the big breeders and vets who have given their opinions on the situation, his reputation is now mush. Seeing his ad on this website touting his excellent customer service makes me sick.
Finally, if it were me he maliciously and knowingly screwed over, I would do everything in my power to make him pay in anyway that I could. This would include calling the SPCA, his work, or anyone else that would listen! After pulling a move like this, it's no holds barred IMO.
Darin Chappell
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Marcial,
Tim appears to be in the wrong here, and I hope he makes it right, but I fear his silence says volumes about his intention. However, he has done good here in the past, beyond what he said about the PayPal charges (about which he was 100% correct, by the way . . . you may consider it whining, but I think agreeing to use a service under certain conditions and then breaking that agreement for a mere 3% is petty and wrong).
I am not a friend of Tim's, but I am not out to hang him in the wind either. He needs to step up and pay Matt the refund he clearly owes him. If he's getting out of the business/hobby, he needs to do so with class and dignity, not bait and switch tactics.
Stooping to ad hominem attacks, or trying to change the subject of this thread doesn't do anyone any good at all. Let's keep the focus where it belongs.
Tim owes Matt $2,500.00 plain and simple.
What are you going to do about this, Tim?
Tim appears to be in the wrong here, and I hope he makes it right, but I fear his silence says volumes about his intention. However, he has done good here in the past, beyond what he said about the PayPal charges (about which he was 100% correct, by the way . . . you may consider it whining, but I think agreeing to use a service under certain conditions and then breaking that agreement for a mere 3% is petty and wrong).
I am not a friend of Tim's, but I am not out to hang him in the wind either. He needs to step up and pay Matt the refund he clearly owes him. If he's getting out of the business/hobby, he needs to do so with class and dignity, not bait and switch tactics.
Stooping to ad hominem attacks, or trying to change the subject of this thread doesn't do anyone any good at all. Let's keep the focus where it belongs.
Tim owes Matt $2,500.00 plain and simple.
What are you going to do about this, Tim?
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