Info Need some advice on a situation involving Alea Rodriguez.

[meowmeowkazoo]

Like I said it's easy to judge when its not happening to you.

It IS easier to judge when it's not happening to you, which is why I would put more stock in the unbiased opinions you are receiving. You are both emotional over this situation, and should be listening to the people who are not.

 

[ShadowAceD]

David, I am law enforcement, at the Federal Level at that. Let me just say this, possession is 9/10 of the law.. Unless they have some type of notarized contract, this girl can keep them if she wishes to.

Milo Garcia

There is literally a paper trail posted on this website that says she acknowledges ownership to someone else, so I highly doubt that is the case here.

The animals need to be held onto until it is safe to ship them and then sent off, which is about he only reasonable conclusion to this unfortunate situation at this point.

There was never an agreement on payment for their care prior to this incident so trying to get back payment for said care is not really something that is going to be seen as reasonable. Payment for future care is more reasonable, however. Also, payment for shipment should certainly come from the owner, not the care taker.

 

[ElexisC]

Sooooo from what I see you say repeatedly in here that you do not want them, and then turn around and say in messages that unless she pays you for the board and care that you initially agreed was for free (and you received a snake as payment as well from my gathering) that she infact cannot have them back until payment is given or am I reading these screen shots completely wrong?

All this mess started over Facebook drama, then it spilled into a business discussion where you outed alea, which became a BOI discussion because and admin enforced rules. One that has racked up alot of views, alot of comments over a cat fight. One that seems to be petty and ridiculous. Ship the snakes back when the weather breaks and both of you carry on with your lives. Two reputations got ruined today over fb drama and you of all people cannot even see that.

I posted all of those, you think that's new info to this thread? Did you even read it all or just come to her defense? And yea I said that out of anger because she was making it impossible to even talk to her. I tried to be civil and she said she refused to read it, then blocked me, unblocked me to say what she wanted, then blocked me again, so I took to the boi where it could be hashed out

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[Milo Garcia]

...

If people are taking it as black mail, which it's NOT, then that's not my fault. She wanted them back in spring regardless, we already agreed apon that before she did this. I'm not using them as a weapon. I'm tired of being used by someone who obviously didn't value the friendship that much to treat me so poorly for NO reason at all.

Why are you guys ignoring the fact she had the opportunity to take 3 back months ago and REFUSED and bought more animals? If she wanted them back so badly, why did she leave them when she had open cages then fill them with other animals? That's my problem, she says she cares, wants them back, but when I tried to send the 3 smallest back since she had caging she said no. But I'm the bad guy..

I just want to send them back and be done with it. If I have to do it free of charge because I agreed to a friend months ago, who threw away everything, then fine. Like I said it's easy to judge when its not happening to you.

Elexis,

Ship the snakes back and be done with it. Whether or not, she can afford to properly care for them or house them, really isn't your problem. To be honest there's always 3 sides to every story. There's your side, her side, and then there's the truth. This she said, she said stuff continues to look like a cat chasing its own tail around in circles.

Shipping back the snakes can be done even in those temps. Properly packaged with insulation and a couple of heat packs isn't going to harm the animals any. Ship your reptiles and reptiles express will both do a very good job of getting those snakes back to her the next morning. These animals seem to be the common denominator between you to, so send them off and wipe your hands clean of this mess.

Taking a step back, taking a few deep breaths or letting the situation sit stagnant for awhile was something that you didn't try. So the next best thing to do is put your pride aside, because from the outside looking in and reading your posts/responses, that's what it seems was hurt by all of this, your pride. Be the bigger person, ship the animals back and move on.

Milo Garcia

 

[caffeinecynic]

Why are you guys ignoring the fact she had the opportunity to take 3 back months ago and REFUSED and bought more animals? If she wanted them back so badly, why did she leave them when she had open cages then fill them with other animals? That's my problem, she says she cares, wants them back, but when I tried to send the 3 smallest back since she had caging she said no. But I'm the bad guy..

I don't recall commenting at all on her behavior or her attitude towards things. There is a reason for this and that is that I was addressing your question of what you, specifically are doing wrong. In every conflict, there are two sides to every story. Do I think that Ms. Rodriguez is justified in all of her reactions to you or her treatment of you? No. I do not know her, and I do not know all of the story between the two of you. Nor do I care to find it out.

What it comes down to is that you came to this forum and asked for advice. You, not her. You wanted advice on how to deal with it. This is my advice: Take care of the animals and ship them back to her as soon as you are able to. Threatening her does nothing but paint you in a bad light. Whether your responses are understandable or not is largely irrelevant. I do not recall being asked my opinion of Ms. Rodriguez's animal care, nor do I have any intention of voicing what I think of her or you in regards to these animals/their treatment/etc.

Short version: I don't want to get involved in this argument between the two of you.

What I want you to understand is that, from an outsider's point of view, REGARDLESS of how it happened, the bare bones facts are:

You have her animals.
You cannot give her animals to her right now.
You are asking for money for the care of those animals.

Stripping away every other aspect of this thread or this situation between the two of you, these are the bare bones facts. You have the animals, they are not being returned to her by your choice and actions (whether understandable or not is irrelevant), and therefore, their care falls to you - because you are preventing her from taking care of them directly.

Again, I reiterate: I am not saying this to attack you, Ms. Craig. You asked why you were being questioned, and what part of your responses was making you the 'bad guy.' This is what part. When you strip down to the bare bones of this situation and take emotion, as well as circumstance, out of the equation, it appears that you are holding animals that were entrusted to you with the intention of getting more money for their care. It comes across as black mail.

You specified that it's not your problem if that's how it's taken. That's fine. But perceptions and reputations are a big deal in this hobby; they can make or break you. I hope you do the right thing for yourself and for the snakes entrusted to your care.

 

[ElexisC]

Elexis,

Ship the snakes back and be done with it. Whether or not, she can afford to properly care for them or house them, really isn't your problem. To be honest there's always 3 sides to every story. There's your side, her side, and then there's the truth. This she said, she said stuff continues to look like a cat chasing its own tail around in circles.

Shipping back the snakes can be done even in those temps. Properly packaged with insulation and a couple of heat packs isn't going to harm the animals any. Ship your reptiles and reptiles express will both do a very good job of getting those snakes back to her the next morning. These animals seem to be the common denominator between you to, so send them off and wipe your hands clean of this mess.

Taking a step back, taking a few deep breaths or letting the situation sit stagnant for awhile was something that you didn't try. So the next best thing to do is put your pride aside, because from the outside looking in and reading your posts/responses, that's what it seems was hurt by all of this, your pride. Be the bigger person, ship the animals back and move on.

Milo Garcia

I have said my times I will ship them back... who will be to blame if they get held up and die when the heat pack rubs out? Me.

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[ElexisC]

I don't recall commenting at all on her behavior or her attitude towards things. There is a reason for this and that is that I was addressing your question of what you, specifically are doing wrong. In every conflict, there are two sides to every story. Do I think that Ms. Rodriguez is justified in all of her reactions to you or her treatment of you? No. I do not know her, and I do not know all of the story between the two of you. Nor do I care to find it out.

What it comes down to is that you came to this forum and asked for advice. You, not her. You wanted advice on how to deal with it. This is my advice: Take care of the animals and ship them back to her as soon as you are able to. Threatening her does nothing but paint you in a bad light. Whether your responses are understandable or not is largely irrelevant. I do not recall being asked my opinion of Ms. Rodriguez's animal care, nor do I have any intention of voicing what I think of her or you in regards to these animals/their treatment/etc.

Short version: I don't want to get involved in this argument between the two of you.

What I want you to understand is that, from an outsider's point of view, REGARDLESS of how it happened, the bare bones facts are:

You have her animals.
You cannot give her animals to her right now.
You are asking for money for the care of those animals.

Stripping away every other aspect of this thread or this situation between the two of you, these are the bare bones facts. You have the animals, they are not being returned to her by your choice and actions (whether understandable or not is irrelevant), and therefore, their care falls to you - because you are preventing her from taking care of them directly.

Again, I reiterate: I am not saying this to attack you, Ms. Craig. You asked why you were being questioned, and what part of your responses was making you the 'bad guy.' This is what part. When you strip down to the bare bones of this situation and take emotion, as well as circumstance, out of the equation, it appears that you are holding animals that were entrusted to you with the intention of getting more money for their care. It comes across as black mail.

You specified that it's not your problem if that's how it's taken. That's fine. But perceptions and reputations are a big deal in this hobby; they can make or break you. I hope you do the right thing for yourself and for the snakes entrusted to your care.

How do you figure it's my choice? Even she said in the spring to ship them back, I'm forced to care for them either way regardless. If she pays for appropriate shipping supplies not the box she sent them in because it would not be adequate in these temps I will gladly send them back next week, then if they get help up, and end up sick or dead, it will not be my fault since everyone is saying it's so safe to ship right now and trying to force me to go against my better judgment than to send these animals out possibly to their deaths. Agreed?

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[Realauren89]

I posted all of those, you think that's new info to this thread? Did you even read it all or just come to her defense? And yea I said that out of anger because she was making it impossible to even talk to her. I tried to be civil and she said she refused to read it, then blocked me, unblocked me to say what she wanted, then blocked me again, so I took to the boi where it could be hashed out


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Actually two of those screen shots I posted where in fact not posted. I've read every single post in this thread. I will tell you just like I told Alea. You both are acting immature. You both are at fault in your own ways. Alea for being irrational, you for blowing a gasket and coming here. You wanted to hash this out here, and that is exactly what id happening. You are gettin unbiased opinipns you asked for. I am on neither side, just the side that makes the most sense and hopefully you both will walk away with no mud on your repuations.

 

[ElexisC]

Actually two of those screen shots I posted where in fact not posted. I've read every single post in this thread. I will tell you just like I told Alea. You both are acting immature. You both are at fault in your own ways. Alea for being irrational, you for blowing a gasket and coming here. You wanted to hash this out here, and that is exactly what id happening. You are gettin unbiased opinipns you asked for. I am on neither side, just the side that makes the most sense and hopefully you both will walk away with no mud on your repuations.

No only one of those wasn't posted in full. And I told her why it was posted, because she threatened me. And many people do think the way she acted was childish, unnecessary, etc. I posted the screen shots to protect myself from her trying to say I'm trying to keep them, which I'm not and never was. So nice try. Btw edit out the profanity, and she can post here for herself since it's between me and her not send you to relay one message that I didn't get screen shotted fully by mistake.

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[caffeinecynic]

How do you figure it's my choice? Even she said in the spring to ship them back, I'm forced to care for them either way regardless. If she pays for appropriate shipping supplies not the box she sent them in because it would not be adequate in these temps I will gladly send them back next week, then if they get help up, and end up sick or dead, it will not be my fault since everyone is saying it's so safe to ship right now and trying to force me to go against my better judgment than to send these animals out possibly to their deaths. Agreed?

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I have not once told you to ship right now. I know very little about shipping snakes and I do not presume to comment on something that I am not versed in.

It is a choice, though, that you make to not act on her wishes. Is that choice made in the best interest of the snakes in your mind? I have absolutely no doubt that it is. I absolutely believe that the animals' best interest is at the forefront of your mind, and that is admirable. However, it remains your choice not to send them to her and wash your hands of the entire thing. By choosing to keep them there to avoid dangerous shipping conditions (which I maintain is a choice, whether understandable and justified or not, since she has specified that she wants them back now), you are forcing yourself to have to feed and care for those snakes. It's wrong to ask her to pay you for that food and care, when you are not doing what she asked.

The only thing I think you're justified in asking her for is for her to send you shipping supplies and a shipping label. To me, that's fair. The rest isn't.

Be advised that I am absolutely sympathetic to your concern for the snakes and I do respect that you're trying your best to do what is right for them in your mind. Ultimately, though, you were asked to send them back and you have refused to do so. That puts their care firmly in your hands until you make arrangements with Ms. Rodriguez to get her animals to her.

To use a comparison from other experiences:

If I buy a snake from someone and they are not comfortable shipping them to me in the cold weather, I most assuredly would expect them to care for that snake until they are comfortable shipping.

I realize she didn't buy the snakes from you. To me, the situation is pretty similar though.

 

[ElexisC]

I have not once told you to ship right now. I know very little about shipping snakes and I do not presume to comment on something that I am not versed in.

It is a choice, though, that you make to not act on her wishes. Is that choice made in the best interest of the snakes in your mind? I have absolutely no doubt that it is. I absolutely believe that the animals' best interest is at the forefront of your mind, and that is admirable. However, it remains your choice not to send them to her and wash your hands of the entire thing. By choosing to keep them there to avoid dangerous shipping conditions (which I maintain is a choice, whether understandable and justified or not, since she has specified that she wants them back now), you are forcing yourself to have to feed and care for those snakes. It's wrong to ask her to pay you for that food and care, when you are not doing what she asked.

The only thing I think you're justified in asking her for is for her to send you shipping supplies and a shipping label. To me, that's fair. The rest isn't.

Be advised that I am absolutely sympathetic to your concern for the snakes and I do respect that you're trying your best to do what is right for them in your mind. Ultimately, though, you were asked to send them back and you have refused to do so. That puts their care firmly in your hands until you make arrangements with Ms. Rodriguez to get her animals to her.

To use a comparison from other experiences:

If I buy a snake from someone and they are not comfortable shipping them to me in the cold weather, I most assuredly would expect them to care for that snake until they are comfortable shipping.

I realize she didn't buy the snakes from you. To me, the situation is pretty similar though.

When did she say now? All she keeps saying is spring when it's warm enough, and you may not have said to ship them now, but several have both on and off the boi, which who will everyone blame if I ship them and they get sick and/or die? Me.

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[Realauren89]

No only one of those wasn't posted in full. And I told her why it was posted, because she threatened me. And many people do think the way she acted was childish, unnecessary, etc. I posted the screen shots to protect myself from her trying to say I'm trying to keep them, which I'm not and never was. So nice try. Btw edit out the profanity, and she can post here for herself since it's between me and her not send you to relay one message that I didn't get screen shotted fully by mistake.

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Yet again you missed the entire point. One that countless people have told you over and over again. The way you are coming across is in a negative light. I never once said Alea is in the right. Never once said you are either. I am no ones messenger. This is the BOI this is permanent. And I gave my honest opinion to both you, like many here have done, as well as Alea.

You can take it with a grain of salt. But when you have countless people saying you are coming off in a bad light you might want to stop and conaider it. You asked for advice, you got it.

Now do what you think is best.

 

[ElexisC]

Yet again you missed the entire point. One that countless people have told you over and over again. The way you are coming across is in a negative light. I never once said Alea is in the right. Never once said you are either. I am no ones messenger. This is the BOI this is permanent. And I gave my honest opinion to both you, like many here have done, as well as Alea.

You can take it with a grain of salt. But when you have countless people saying you are coming off in a bad light you might want to stop and conaider it. You asked for advice, you got it.

Now do what you think is best.

And it appears you ignored my post. Send her the one that's says to buy the shipping supplies and I'll send them as soon as I get the supplies, the box she used was ok when she sent them, now? Not even close. If she pays for the appropriate shipping supplies, I will pack them and send them out next week as long as everyone agrees t was against my better judgment and I am not at fault should anything go wrong.

 

[Realauren89]

When did she say now? All she keeps saying is spring when it's warm enough, and you may not have said to ship them now, but several have both on and off the boi, which who will everyone blame if I ship them and they get sick and/or die? Me.

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As for the shipping it is far to cold at present temps. Even SYR is against shipping at this time. If the weather breaks for favorable conditions Alea should pay for shipping arrangements. If it has to wait til spring, same scenario. As far as housing them and paying for care I am fence rider on this and will keep my thoughts to myself.

 

[Realauren89]

And it appears you ignored my post. Send her the one that's says to buy the shipping supplies and I'll send them as soon as I get the supplies, the box she used was ok when she sent them, now? Not even close. If she pays for the appropriate shipping supplies, I will pack them and send them out next week as long as everyone agrees t was against my better judgment and I am not at fault should anything go wrong.

Didn't ignore it. Phone is crappy and slow. See my previous comment.

 

[ElexisC]

As for the shipping it is far to cold at present temps. Even SYR is against shipping at this time. If the weather breaks for favorable conditions Alea should pay for shipping arrangements. If it has to wait til spring, same scenario. As far as housing them and paying for care I am fence rider on this and will keep my thoughts to myself.

Then why keep harping on sending them back! I've already said I WILL SEND THEM BACK! But everyone seems to think I should do it NOW. I even said I'll continue to do it for free! But I will NOT pay the shipping or for the shipping materials.

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[Realauren89]

Then why keep harping on sending them back! I've already said I WILL SEND THEM BACK! But everyone seems to think I should do it NOW. I even said I'll continue to do it for free! But I will NOT pay the shipping or for the shipping materials.

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I've repeatedly said wait til spring or til the weather breaks...

 

[ElexisC]

I have never said I was going to keep them, several people kept trying to get me to sell them and I said NO not unless she relinquished ownership and she obviously hasn't. I have never had any intention of keeping them. So her threat to ruin me over keeping them was completely unwarranted and she knows that. That threat was what started all f this. Had she not threatened me I would have let it all go, and even after she threatened me I tried to be civil until she refused to even read what I had to say and be civil in return.

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[ShadowAceD]

For the record, I find it distasteful for people to suggest she should ship these animals back regardless of their potential care or weather because they are not her animals and should not be her concern.

That is not how we should be viewing these animals' lives.

 

[caffeinecynic]

When did she say now? All she keeps saying is spring when it's warm enough, and you may not have said to ship them now, but several have both on and off the boi, which who will everyone blame if I ship them and they get sick and/or die? Me.

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You're correct; I misunderstood one of the texts (they are somewhat difficult to follow given the font choice used, in my opinion, but that is irrelevant). The combination of that and you saying you didn't want to send them back until she had cages is what confused me, so for that I apologize.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who can instruct you on how to send reptiles safely in colder weather (not necessarily right now, but in general) as well as what would be needed to do so from your location and hers (I do not know anything about shipping, but Fauna has a whole board dedicated to the subject).

As for who will blame you if you ship them and they get sick during the process of shipping - if you ship them correctly, that should be a nonissue.

What I would do in your position is:

1. Care for the snakes as I usually do until it's safe to ship.
2. Find out what you need to be able to ship to Ms. Rodriguez as soon as is safely possible per SYR (I do not know what goes into winter shipping but I know that I have received plenty of snakes in the winter time and been fine - but I live in FL, summer is a bigger problem for me than winter).
3. Have her send those supplies to you as soon as possible, including a shipping label.
4. Send her her snakes and be done with it.

Just what I think, personally. The fact that you brought up paying for room and board the way you did still doesn't sit right with me. I can understand your perspective, even sympathize with it... but from an outsider's point of view, it really looks like using them against her when she has no control over it.