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Christy's Critters

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This is the first time that I have ever had to deal with this! Ok, I ordered a baby frilled dragon from a seller (I won't give their name at this time because I don't want this to be a bad mark against their name in case he decides to do the right thing). It arrived yesterday almost dead! He was wobbly, couldn't balance and looked terrible! The box and styro the little guy was shipped in had no air holes and there was a heat pack inside! Ok....I have been told by MANY people that heat packs burn up oxygen, and there were NO airholes in the box, sounds like the little guy suffered from lack of air to me! The deli cup was taped down to the bottom of the box, but there was no padding around the deli cup! I e-mailed the sellers and told them that he wasn't doing good, but of course they said he was healthy before they sent him. Well, the little guy died last night. I e-mailed these people and told them that he died and I have pictures to prove it. Now he is saying that he won't refund shipping and he also said that "most breeders don't refund shipping on D.O.A". I want the shipping back because I don't feel it is right to have to pay shipping on an animal that was poorly shipped in the first place! I don't want this to be a hassle or war but I don't intend to pay a high shipping fee when I didn't get what I paid for! Do you guys think they should refund shipping? Thanks for all input.

Christy Grayson
 
I take it from your post they are willing to refund the cost of the animal? Was there padding in the deli cup? I've had animals shipped without padding in the cup quite a bit. If you've ever watched handlers throw these packages, you will understand the need to pad these little guys. Also where was the heat pack? to one side or directly under the animal,overheating him. What service was used? I would take the refund for the animal and count my blessings, cut your losses on the shipping and run.

Mike Conley
 
Christy

Bottom line, it comes down to what their fine print says.  If you ordered them from a web based company, they will generally have a Terms and Conditions page (or something of that sort) that defines what they warranty in various situations.  Most reputable dealers will cover all costs on a DOA.  However, a fair number do exempt themselves from shipping costs.  It is always a good idea to have a handle on these sort of things before making a purchase.  I always guarantee live healthy delivery and will not order from someone who does not do the same.
 
I think that the seller should refund the FULL amount you paid for the animal, including shipping.

You were not asking him/her to ship a half-dead Frilled Dragon were you?  You were not asking him/her to poorly package said dragon were you?  You paid for a LIVE HEALTHY frilled dragon as well as proper shipping methods so that it would arrive that way to you.  Since such was not the case, you should be entitled to a FULL refund of all charges incurred in the deal, not just the cost of the animal.

Best of luck!
 
Unless it had been in the box for a few days, I doubt it had to do with lack of air--unless they taped every corner and crevice on that box--air usually has an easy time getting into the box area through the cardboard and the corners.  My guess is that there was either a temerature problem (too hot or too cold), or the animal was not doing well to begin with.  The wobbly balance thing could be a number of things including a preexisting condition like vitamin deficiency, stress, or someone did a real "bang up" job in the handling (shaking the box around for kicks), or the heat/cold thing.

The animal should certainly be refunded.  But, what other people said is true--different companies have different policies on shipping refunds--some do, some do not.  Be aware, that unless they shipped delta dash, they get absolutely no compensation for the loss of the animal and have to eat the cost of both the animal and the shipping.  So many companies will refund the animal, but not shipping.

I'm very sorry for you and the frilly.  Frilled dragons are so special, I hate thinking about that poor guy-- (ok, I'm psycho about the frilleds, I know, I know, lol).

Dana
 
just a side note...I noticed that you posted on KS frilled forum--be very careful not to break the TOS--they've been very touchy about banning people lately--you are not supposed to say anything negative about any company--so, just be careful.
also, another note, is that a lot of people this time of year do not punch airholes in order to keep more heat in.
sorry again
dana
 
Well,
it looks like they are not going to refund the shipping costs and I really don't think it's fair that I have to lose on shipping because like Rob said, I didn't pay for a half dead frilled dragon. In the latest e-mail the person said "it was alive when it arrived and we guarantee live arrival", um, so because the animal was barely hanging onto life when it got here, I don't get shipping costs back??? Several people have seen the way this animal was shipped, and seen the dragon when I got him out of the box and alot of people are disgusted about it, but I guess there is nothing I can do. This animal was advertised on kingsnake, and nowhere did it say that buyer would be out shipping in the case of a D.O.A. Their web site states this, but like I said before, I didn't see this animal advertised on their site. The ad has been taken off of kingsnake, but it did say 100% healthy and live arrival guarantee, otherwise I would have never sent payment for it! The box was pretty well taped up, and no air holes. Dana, thanks for the heads up about kingsnake, I didn't list the dealers name so I don't think I broke any rules. I'm really heartbroken and angry at the same time about this, it's the first time I have been sent an animal that was almost dead! The little guy didn't even last 10 hours. I guess I will know for now on to ask people if they have any "hidden" policies I should know about.

Christy Grayson
 
Sad to hear about your loss. I have shipped dozens of baby frilleds out this year. I usually ship them in a box lined with one inch foam. Since most where shipped during summer I did not use heat packs, but going forward they will require them. I do not poke holes in the box because it is not needed. I ship UPS Red and every animal has made it to its destination in less than 24hours. It helps because I'm in California, so I have a time advantage to almost everywhere. Although frilleds may be a little sluggish we they first arrive with a little water and heat they should perk up. If you had bought a baby from me, I would have refunded everything to you. Baby frilleds are definatally more sensative to shipping and new environments, but with the right care usually are pretty easy. I recommend that next time you use this forum to find a good breeder. I would say to use kingsnake, but they banned me for telling someone how much I was selling my babies for.I would not buy from anybody who could not guarantee animals for at least a week. Hopefully you get all your money back, and please post your sellers name to warn other potential buyers. Also, besides Dana and myself I don't know many people with true captive bred frilleds. We both take pictures of our babies hatching and are more than willing to send photos of our frilleds. Good Luck!!!
James Tuttle
 
Sorry to hear about your frilled Christy.  If you bought the animal off of an ad on kingsnake and it said " 100% live arrival guaranteed "  and no other conditions were listed then it is implied that " 100% "  also covers shipping.  I would hesitate to ever accept another animal from them, such as a replacement animal for the one that died,  in case of the same thing happening again.  I also feel that if this dealer/person does not refund the shipping price you should post their name here ....... Its not against the rules here !!!

Gary Walsch
Sunshine State Reptiles
 
I have really had enough now! One of my friends informed me that this person had posted on a forum about the frillies not doing well. Still at this time I won't give their name because I am still trying to collect on shipping, hopefully they will see the light. If they refuse to do so, everyone will know who they are. Below is a post he left on a forum talking about the frillies not eating well, hmm, I'm guessing one of these "not doing so well" dragons was sent to me! Anyway, here is the post. Some of you have probably already seen it and will know after reading it who these people are, but I think it's important that I get this on here before they have their post removed....they have already had the post removed that advertised the dragon....go figure.

"We got a group of frilleds from James a short while back. I also got another group from another person that are housed seperatly and doing fine. My question is in regards to them feeding. We are feeding them normal sized cricket for their size. None of them really eat all that well and all of them have their hips sticking out somewhat. Is this common? I have done everything as told, put tank in secluded area temps are correct water in tank mist 2-3 times per day and the wife soakes them every day for about a 1/2 hour as herp James suggestion. I am no idiot when it comes to reptiles just thought these should not be as much of a pain in the A$$ as they have been:0) Thanks for any comments."

Ok, he knew the dragons were not doing well, but yet he still sold them??? I am so angry right now that I'm breathing fire!! I was totally mislead on this dragon, I thought this guy produced them, but from the sound of it, a guy named James did. It also sounds like he had no idea how to care for them. Next time I decide to buy a frilled dragon, I'm going to a breeder, not someone that decided to resale because he couldn't care for them. If I would have seen that post I would have never sent the payment, but I sent payment out on the 12th, that post was left on the 17th and the dragon was sent to me on the 21st and arrived 22nd. I hav printed out that post, along with e-mails and pictures just in case this has to turn into a war. Also, the pic of the frilled dragon that he had in the ad for sale was NOT the animal he sent me, probably someone elses picture! I will let everyone know how this person decides to deal with this and if they do not refund shipping, everyone will know of them! <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'> Thanks to everyone for your input!

Christy Grayson
 
Christy,

The guy is a morron. I was the one who sold him the frilled babies. He is the only person who has managed to mess them up. As Dana can attest to she has received 10+ babies from me and had no problems. I think he was trying to feed them cricket that where 1/2" + which was to big for these babies, plus like you said he said he was having problems and still sold to you. I have always backed my babies 100% if I felt the person was taking care of them properly. I'll tell you what, forget the shipping. How much did you pay for the baby? I will sell you one for the same price and give you free shipping. Just email me and I will take care of you. If you have any concerns you can ask Dana about me. Sorry again for your loss, and mine. I hate to see a baby die for stupidity.
James Tuttle
[email protected]
 
James,
that is extremely generous of you! If everyone was that kind hearted, the world would be a better place, that's for sure! I'm so sorry to hear that it was one of your babies that these people neglected! He was a beautiful little guy and it tore my heart out to have to watch him suffer. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>  I sent you an e-mail.

Christy Grayson
 
Its time to post who did this.

Time to share with all of us who we should be looking out for.
I buy online often and would like to know who it is so I don't get treated the way you have been.

Scott Cook
 
Christy's Critters get's high praise from me!  To not post the name until you know the facts is very wise!  Many of the people on here can't live without the peoples names, it's not enough to just help solve the issue.

Fine Print on their site is an odd thing.  In my issue people didn't give the fine print on my site any weight.  I think if you post it then people can make up their own minds.

I offer live animals and a promise they will be alive to my front door.  If you pick them up or if you have FedEx do it that's up to the person but once they leave my house I no longer cover them.  Just like if you bought a pet at a petstore and the heat in your car killed it.

On the flip side I offer people optional insurance so if the animal does die they're covered.  In 5 years I haven't lost ONE snake in shipping so while I don't worry about it I want people to have that option.  I however don't refund shipping either, even on those "insured" shipments.

Here's what it comes down to.  If they say they don't refund shipping in their ad or on their site.  Take the refund on the lizard and learn a lession from it.

However!!  If they made no mention of it and said the animal would get there alive without saying an amount of time, like you must call within 24 hours.  Then it's their learning expense and I would tell them you'll post their name in here if they don't do right by you.  I've learned many things the hard way and I only hope you don't have to on this one.

Good luck,
Adam Block
 
Well.... I've got a couple of things to say.... first off.... they should absolutely have given your shipping charges back! That stuff about they arrived alive is, well, you know! But, it DIDN'T arrive HEALTHY! Case closed.... they OWE YOU shipping!

Second.... Christie.... you're coming here for our help as a community.... yet, you refuse to give up a name??? Then why did you come here in the first place?? This should have been on the General Discussions Section.... you OWE IT TO US to divulge that name.... aren't you interested in trying to help others that might be in the same boat?? I really think you're being very unfair...

I'm truly sorry about the fate of your Frilly, but, I'd STILL like to know who did this! And so would everyone else! ....Neil
 
Yes, it is time to give their name. It's Tropical Herps...Brad and Wendy Cooper. I'm fed up with trying to get them to do what's right. I just didn't want to jump on here and give their name, I thought there still might be a chance for them to do what's right, but they didn't. After my friend told me about the post they left on the Frilled Dragon forum, I read it and got extremely pi$$ed! The frilled dragon was NOT doing well while they had him, but yet they advertised him as being 100% healthy and live arrival guarantee. I advise you guys to avoid these people unless you want to be treated like crap! They say that they have sold 1000's of animals and have never had a problem, um, has anyone ever delt with them before? They DID NOT say anything on the ad along the lines of "if the animal arrives barely alive, it's live arrival!" or "when this sick dragon dies on you, your out shipping chosts".
Neil, I wasn't trying to be unfair, it was killing me to keep their names from you guys but I was still trying to work with these people instead of throwing in the towl, but I'm fed up and extremely angry that they would treat an animal and a customer this way.
I will try to post the link to the post they left on the forum so you guys can see it for yourselves. Thanks

Christy Grayson
 
Christy,


             I think you have handled this matter very well and showed great judgement on how you handled it,and can understand why you handled it the way you did. Neil ( aka THE HANGING JUDGE ) was trying to point out that if they treated you like crap you should post their name so other people don't suffer the same way you did, that's all.  But from everything you have posted so far they sound like real low lifes.  Thanks for the heads up.


Gary Walsch
Sunshine State Reptiles
 
i have taken notice of how you handled this matter christy, and i will try to be as proffesional in my future dealings as you. its nice to see someone that was treated badly resolve an issue here without slamming the other party.i also hope the case of      "THE SICK SILLY FRILLY"  works out, and its nice to see others try to help you out with replacements. good luck in the future, Al
 
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