Negative karma messages

[Southern Wolf]

Someone posting what someone else posted in a karma comment (as long as the profanity is reasonably edited out) will not get themselves in trouble.

Sorry Harald... I promise Im not picking on ya.

Then why is it Harald is always telling folks that talk about the karma you received is not a vaild BOI post.. .and you need to take it to the feedback forum. In reguards to the threat that spured this one... I think it is a VERY VALID post because the BG in that thread tried to shut up those that was speaking up against them by threats of a lawsuit.

I'm not sure how you got that turned around in your mind to think what I said was in any way an attempt to protect the bad guys...

If our hands are tied from exposing the bad guy... then are you not protecting the bad guy by not allowing us to expose them

But to be quite pointed about this, if a bad guy belittles someone and then that someone turns around and responds with their own derogatory belittlement attempts, then in my eyes, there is really no difference between the two when what they have posted is viewed objectively. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I agree with you.... but I dont think that is what this thread is really about. It's about a pair of people leaving neg karma comments for several folks trying to shut up those that would speak out against them.

 

[JudyC]

Well maybe we aren't talking about the same thing.

I think that's the case.

Someone posting what someone else posted in a karma comment (as long as the profanity is reasonably edited out) will not get themselves in trouble.

THIS is what folks are confused about. According to Harald, they WILL get in trouble because it is considered to be "off topic" to the BOI, regardless of the content of the comment.

I can see both sides very clearly. Sometimes the comments made in a supposedly private comment on someone's karma list MAY be relevant to the issue being discussed in their BOI thread. But on the flip side...MOST of the time, quotes and discussions of karma comments are little more than whining, scoffing, mocking, or public eye rolling to say, "That didn't hurt, so nya!"

If the staff allows a few "relevant" karma discussions, then it implies that any remark about karma is appropriate in BOI threads. It's much easier for staff to warn everyone to keep karma comments OUT of the discussion rather than having to sort and judge each and every one.

Maybe it would simply be more appropriate...if someone feels their opinion on a recently received karma MUST be said publicly....for folks to start a new thread about it here...and then just post a link to this new thread in the original BOI thread. That directs folks to be able to read and comment on the side-issue...without derailing the original one.

Maybe?

 

[WebSlave]

Sorry Harald... I promise Im not picking on ya.

Then why is it Harald is always telling folks that talk about the karma you received is not a vaild BOI post.. .and you need to take it to the feedback forum. In reguards to the threat that spured this one... I think it is a VERY VALID post because the BG in that thread tried to shut up those that was speaking up against them by threats of a lawsuit.

If our hands are tied from exposing the bad guy... then are you not protecting the bad guy by not allowing us to expose them

Perhaps I misread the gist of such statements in the instances where I noticed Harald making note in the BOI about karma comments, but from what I got out of it, he was indicating that the discussion about karma and the system were not appropriate in the BOI, and not referring to the CONTENT of the karma comments. I felt that he was trying to keep the thread in question from going off topic by having it turn into a discussion ABOUT the karma system, which, of course, is really only appropriate within the Feedback Forum.

Perhaps my assessment is not accurate, but that's how I took it.
YMMV

I agree with you.... but I dont think that is what this thread is really about. It's about a pair of people leaving neg karma comments for several folks trying to shut up those that would speak out against them.

That could well be. However, someone utilizing the karma system to send members negative karma and comments indicating that they are displeased with the content of their posts is NOT against any rules here. Threats of lawsuits are also not inappropriate, as this is legal recourse open to anyone who feels they have been wronged in a way legally redressable. Just as they could state such a threat within a BOI post, it is also perfectly acceptable within a karma comment as well. And in like kind, others receiving such threats could post those comments publicly if they so desired.

Yes, a bad guy CAN find a post about them, even being truthful, as being a "Particularly bad post" TO THEM, as this is a purely subjective determination based on what the reader thinks. To them the content IS just what they are saying that it is, simply because they don't like what the post says. How else could such a determination be made as to what is a "good" post and what is a "bad" post"? There is really no way to make up some sort of arbitrary rule whereby bad guys cannot use the karma system, in that such a rule would force US to have to make a judgement call on who is a bad guy and who is not, so we could exclude that person from utilizing the karma system. Sorry, but that is a completely unworkable path for us to take, simply because we do not choose to make that determination and publicly display it.

When negative karma becomes abusive, it is when someone uses the karma system to give negative points when it is clearly obvious that the post itself is not in any way "bad", but is just being used as ANY post available just to give the negative points. Meaning that the member involved is clearly stalking other members and using any post of convenience to attack another member.

 

[Southern Wolf]

That could well be. However, someone utilizing the karma system to send members negative karma and comments indicating that they are displeased with the content of their posts is NOT against any rules here. Threats of lawsuits are also not inappropriate, as this is legal recourse open to anyone who feels they have been wronged in a way legally redressable. Just as they could state such a threat within a BOI post, it is also perfectly acceptable within a karma comment as well. And in like kind, others receiving such threats could post those comments publicly if they so desired.

Your right... its not against the rules... but it does go to show their mentality and character if they use it to try and persuade other members thoughts and comments.

 

[hhmoore]

I'll try to explain - most often, when I am directing people away from the BOI, it is to prevent further disruption off the thread with repetitive comments, or building discussion of a topic which is separate from the BOI thread. In the case of the thread being discussed here,

 

[Lucille]

In the case of the thread being discussed here,

Harald? Are you OK, you didn't finish your sentence?
Harald?

 

[Southern Wolf]

Someone want to send a search party after Harald... That aint like him.

 

[Lucille]

I already used the notification icon in case the other mods have his phone number.

 

[hhmoore]

(continued, from a real computer - too much trouble trying to do this on my phone)
I'll try to explain - most often, when I am directing people away from the BOI, it is to prevent further disruption off the thread with repetitive comments, or building discussion of a topic which is separate from the BOI thread. In the case of the thread being discussed here, I'll refer you back to my previous statement in this thread, which was:

Perhaps I did fall too easily into an oft stated remark; but, even when the original comments are relevant, when it becomes a series of he gave me negative karma, too and a discussion of whether it impacted anybody's numbers, it quickly deteriorates to the same ol same ol.

THAT stuff really doesn't have much place in a BOI thread. The post I made within the BOI thread was a quick attempt to address several things I saw happening. Yes, the situation was different than the typical karma whining - and my statement, admittedly, did not acknowledge that - but I felt it was going down that same path, and chose to intervene before it went further.

But, to get back to the point I was making earlier, would people have felt that it was appropriate to air the karma comments I mentioned in a BOI thread? Some of them, I would have immediately dismissed as whining...but, some of the others were at least on par with the comment received by Lucille and several other members. At what point do the comments become "valid" information for the BOI? Does it matter which side of the argument a person is on? (IMO, the answer to that question is a resounding NO) What if some of the very same that were receiving those messages from XXXXXX had sent some of the karma messages I referenced? (Just for the record, THEY DID - those were recent karma messages to XXXXXXX's account)

 

[Lucille]

I'm glad you're back Harald

 

[Southern Wolf]

Someone posting what someone else posted in a karma comment (as long as the profanity is reasonably edited out) will not get themselves in trouble.

It's been a hectic day at work... so I may have missed it. The question still remains.

Rich says the above but Harald is trying to curtel (sp?) the karma talk in the BOI (which I understand).... so which is it?

No karma talk in the BOI or what Rich posted above?

 

[hhmoore]

It depends, to some degree, on the situation & the type of post, Kevin....and nobody got in trouble (no warnings or infractions were given). Typically, most karma chatter is off topic to a BOI thread. While, in the case Lucille was referring to, one can argue for its relevance, there were also other karma related posts (whether the negs affected one's points is one that I recall) that weren't in that category.

While it is easy enough to see why some people might think the party in question was trying to put on some air of authority, inhibit some negative posting, or even make some sort of thinly veiled threat of recourse...I honestly don't see it as being any worse than some of the comments he was being sent.

Consider it this way - If the implication is being made (via karma messages) that people plan to hound someone, negatively impact his sales, and drive him out of his hobby/business, while he is also being assailed with negative comments; why is a statement that Slander, harassment, and deformation [sic] of character is not looked upon lightly." seen as inappropriate and/or particularly noteworthy?
If XXXXX had posted the messages he had received, I have no doubts that a) the participants would have justified those messages (and most likely added to them), and b) if the topic went on for more than a few posts, it would have been addressed.

Again - my post was an attempt to quickly address a couple of things, and I did somewhat mix my personas (member + moderator). I've already acknowledged that the situation was not the typical karma whining, and explained why I chose to comment on it. Had I visited the thread during the betting phase, I would have intervened in that, as well; but it had basically died down by the time I saw it.

 

[Southern Wolf]

While it is easy enough to see why some people might think the party in question was trying to put on some air of authority, inhibit some negative posting, or even make some sort of thinly veiled threat of recourse...I honestly don't see it as being any worse than some of the comments he was being sent.

I cant see what had been sent... so that could put a whole nother spin on things. If their comments were in fact a rebuttle to what they received.. then IMO that lessens the weight I would put on their neg karma threats of lawsuit. (god I hate we cant use names... Im almost trying to confuse myself). While it still shows their character... its more of a defensive move vs. just sending it outright because they didn't like what was being said on the BOI.