Uffern
Mental Midget
Jackie, Neil admits he wrote it in the email Ritchie posted above.
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Neil Gubitz - An unpleasant perspective
- Thread starter WebSlave
- Start date
NocturnalNature
Active member
Woops,
I must have been typing as Ritchie posted the last email from Neil.
I guess there is no doubt now that he wrote that craziness since he admitted to it directly.
I must say that I was hoping that this was somehow a mistake or fabrication on someones part. It saddens me to think that someone that so many people trusted and stood up for can be such an untrustworthy person.
In closing all I have to say is SHAME ON YOU NEIL!
I must have been typing as Ritchie posted the last email from Neil.
I guess there is no doubt now that he wrote that craziness since he admitted to it directly.
I must say that I was hoping that this was somehow a mistake or fabrication on someones part. It saddens me to think that someone that so many people trusted and stood up for can be such an untrustworthy person.
In closing all I have to say is SHAME ON YOU NEIL!
Monte
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the herp community is strange . . .
I've kept my nose out of this - until now.
I'm a fairly recent addition to the herping world. I've been on this site ever since I purchased from leos from Rich and Connie, and have tried to keep up with this site, and have found it valuable - except for this ongoing soap opera. I'm a trusting person, and I always try to put the best construction on everything - but tonight takes the cake.
A good friend of mine who is an well respected herper warned me that the herp business can be a little cut-throat. In the last month, when I joined the Minnesota Herpetological Society, I heard tons of people ripping other breeders right and left - and now this deal with Neil and all the shenanigans that go down in FLA. My friend was sadly correct.
People, it looks like we have a long job ahead of us to raise the level of integrity in our hobby. I say, let's move on and do it.
Still - after all this - it is a sad to see the ugly side of this hobby.
I've kept my nose out of this - until now.
I'm a fairly recent addition to the herping world. I've been on this site ever since I purchased from leos from Rich and Connie, and have tried to keep up with this site, and have found it valuable - except for this ongoing soap opera. I'm a trusting person, and I always try to put the best construction on everything - but tonight takes the cake.
A good friend of mine who is an well respected herper warned me that the herp business can be a little cut-throat. In the last month, when I joined the Minnesota Herpetological Society, I heard tons of people ripping other breeders right and left - and now this deal with Neil and all the shenanigans that go down in FLA. My friend was sadly correct.
People, it looks like we have a long job ahead of us to raise the level of integrity in our hobby. I say, let's move on and do it.
Still - after all this - it is a sad to see the ugly side of this hobby.
MiLadyDragonn
SlipSliding Away...
~Bravo, Monty, well said.
~But, in defense of the good guys, I feel that for every unscrupulous seller {or buyer} there are many conscientious and professional people. Hopefully, when all is said and done, the guys in the white hats will outnumber the others.
~But, in defense of the good guys, I feel that for every unscrupulous seller {or buyer} there are many conscientious and professional people. Hopefully, when all is said and done, the guys in the white hats will outnumber the others.
robin d.
New member
i do not think he was trusted by nearly as many people as he would have lead you to believe. The guy has a personality that is easy to read. I would think MOSt would be able to see through it. I know alot of people ,who like myself, did not belive a word.. i am sure their was many more.
agree with one other mebers post where they said neil was a legend in his own mind.
I guess he was trying to play with the big boys and he got found out.
oh well se la vi
agree with one other mebers post where they said neil was a legend in his own mind.
I guess he was trying to play with the big boys and he got found out.
oh well se la vi
Darin Chappell
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Neil is, in my never-to-be-humble opinion, a full-blown weasel!
The Dirty Dozen rides again!!!
Hey WebSlave, it's about time to post that P.I. report, isn't it?
The Dirty Dozen rides again!!!
Hey WebSlave, it's about time to post that P.I. report, isn't it?
John Apple
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Gotta agree with Darrin there webslave.
Still feeling taken by the infamous Tampa Sp fiasco , not by you of course
Still feeling taken by the infamous Tampa Sp fiasco , not by you of course
suefrederick
New member
This may be a bit off topic, but it does have to do with what is getting posted on this thread. There was a statement made by Darin that states: The Dirty Dozen rides again!!! I have posted in a separate part of this board that many people are not willing to post their opinions on this forum if these opinions are not in line with the "group"'s opinions that seems to be here. I guess that it would be the Dirty Dozen group. A major reason that people are not willing to post dissenting opinions on this forum is that the "group" will attack, very similar to a feeding frenzy in a group of sharks. The Webslave replied to my original post where I stated that by saying that if people have proof and play by the rules, then this type of feeding frenzy does not happen. I know that these were not his exact words. However, I have seen it happen, and I know that other people have seen it happen on several occasions. I did not like Neil's replies to the two people who posted problems with his business, however, I was not willing to post my opinions on these replies, because at that point, Neil was in the "group". It wasn't until Neil screwed it up that the "group" finally was able to step back and say "ahhhhhh". So how many times has someone been unwilling to post something that goes against the "group's" opinion, so a potential bad guy does not get found out until that actual bad guy actually screws up big time (or possibly offends one of the "group" so that the "group" can attack him? Is this the way that this board is supposed to work? Just my opinion.
suefrederick
suefrederick
Casey Hulse
New member
I do not think Neil got the "boot"
I think Rich politely asked Neil to stay away from this site.
As far as Neil goes, do people with superior intellect like Neil (remember he said he tested 157 on an official I.Q. test and his papa tested 192) always do such stupid things? All the people/"idiots" on this site are potential customers for him, and he always bashes them. I think maybe a career change for Neil is needed. You must be a real disappointment to your father Neil, I have seen his artwork and imagine he would be disgusted at the way you mock the fine people here.
I think Rich politely asked Neil to stay away from this site.
I agree. I have had a couple of hundred internet transactions and we are also vendors at 3 shows each month and I have met/spoken with some of the nicest people I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. There are a couple of vendors that seem to like to tear others down, but they are few and far between.
As far as Neil goes, do people with superior intellect like Neil (remember he said he tested 157 on an official I.Q. test and his papa tested 192) always do such stupid things? All the people/"idiots" on this site are potential customers for him, and he always bashes them. I think maybe a career change for Neil is needed. You must be a real disappointment to your father Neil, I have seen his artwork and imagine he would be disgusted at the way you mock the fine people here.
Casey Hulse
New member
I think Darin is refering to a the people who Neil labeled as the 12 people who did not believe his bulls#^t in the infamous 108 page Tampa thread. Neil put that number out there and it has been called the "dirty dozen" by a few people.
Rob! Come on man!?!?! A 5 1/2 star refusing food! That dog won't hunt man. You standing up for your friend is one thing, but this is clear-cut. I've seen tortoises come in from outside the country and begin eating within 10 minutes of being unpacked. This one was "c.b." and only took a day trip. Not to mention he payed $500 for it, partially to get the wonderful Neil Gubitz satisfaction guarantee. I turely hope Neil does refund his money, reguardless of all this other stuff, that guys deserves all his money back. And as most of you know I am the last person to buy into this whole guarantee business.
HerpVenue
New member
Sue
There is no dirty dozen. When people were in disagreement with Neil...he mentioned that these same people are part of the twelve blah blah blah. and from then on they call themselves that. You see when it is against someone else....Neil says their is no group. But when it goes against him....all of a sudden there is this group whose sole purpose is to go against him.
Darin posting that is to rub what Neil has said in the past back on his face.
There is no dirty dozen. When people were in disagreement with Neil...he mentioned that these same people are part of the twelve blah blah blah. and from then on they call themselves that. You see when it is against someone else....Neil says their is no group. But when it goes against him....all of a sudden there is this group whose sole purpose is to go against him.
Darin posting that is to rub what Neil has said in the past back on his face.
That "dirty dozen" label arose when there was a poll started about Neil originally being banned. At the point Neil made this comment there were a dozen people whom had voted for him to remain banned permanently.
Sue, what you will find here is that there are a bunch of people whom are like minded about the way things should be done in business transactions. When someone posts a load of BS or someone gets themselves in the position of being unethical in the manner in which they are doing business, yes, you can expect to have this group of regular posters here make their opinions known. There are always minor disagreements, of course, but I think it would be much more surprising (and disappointing) if there were NOT a core goup of people here whom were willing to attempt a form of peer pressure to have things done right.
After all, the only power the BOI has is this sort of pressure. There is no BOI police force going to go knocking on some bad guy's door late at night. All it can do is to be a public record of the dealings of someone that will be an open book to potential customers. It is the potential customers that will decide whether or not to do business with someone mentioned in here. The BOI cannot TELL anyone what to do.
So yes, if someone posts here and their argument is weak, lacking in details, or just plain unbelievable, they certainly may get 'jumped on'. But if they state the facts, make what they are saying clearly presented and truthful, they will NEVER have a problem here. That is the way is should be. NO one posting a bad guy or good guy post here should be taken at face value. It is not fair to anyone if that were to be the case.
Sue, what you will find here is that there are a bunch of people whom are like minded about the way things should be done in business transactions. When someone posts a load of BS or someone gets themselves in the position of being unethical in the manner in which they are doing business, yes, you can expect to have this group of regular posters here make their opinions known. There are always minor disagreements, of course, but I think it would be much more surprising (and disappointing) if there were NOT a core goup of people here whom were willing to attempt a form of peer pressure to have things done right.
After all, the only power the BOI has is this sort of pressure. There is no BOI police force going to go knocking on some bad guy's door late at night. All it can do is to be a public record of the dealings of someone that will be an open book to potential customers. It is the potential customers that will decide whether or not to do business with someone mentioned in here. The BOI cannot TELL anyone what to do.
So yes, if someone posts here and their argument is weak, lacking in details, or just plain unbelievable, they certainly may get 'jumped on'. But if they state the facts, make what they are saying clearly presented and truthful, they will NEVER have a problem here. That is the way is should be. NO one posting a bad guy or good guy post here should be taken at face value. It is not fair to anyone if that were to be the case.
Just for the record...
No, I have NOT banned Neil Gubitz. I have just asked him to leave. I have withdrawn his banner ad and refunded the balance of money he paid on the remaining impressions. I have also removed his name from the Supporters list as well as the front page of this site.
To be honest, after I posted the message in this thread duplicating his misdirected email, I had some trepidation thinking that maybe this was another one of those cases where an identity had been hacked and it wasn't Neil at all whom had stated those things. So when I came back to the computer after putting some hours in with the animals, the following email I got from Neil gave me mixed emotions:
Firstly, I am not so egotistical that I believe Neil, or anyone else, is going to denigrade the public and yet exempt ME in the same breath. Secondly, I did not take it personal at all. I just feel that someone with this sort of attitude will not be a positive influence for this site.
Anyway, my emotions were mixed, because on one hand I was glad I hadn't stuck my own foot down my throat with my own post and would have to eat crow because of my jumping to a conclusion on the authenticity of that email. On another hand I was glad that I would not have to dig into the system to try to figure out whom exactly had posted that email if it wasn't Neil. And thirdly, it saddened me that an email I sent to Neil just a few days proved to be, oddly, a premonition:
Emailed on 03/02/03 at 9:31 pm:
Anyway, after receiving the copy of the misdirected email, I came to the conclusion that Neil does not have this site's best interests at heart, and matter of fact, I am of the opinion that he is doing his level best to undermine it, at every opportunity, behind the scenes. Even in his apology letter sent to 27 recipients. What about the other 2,800 registered members of this site? Is he saying that his misdirected email DOES apply to the rest of them?
So I have asked Neil to leave. I just don't want him here any longer, but I have not banned him. The reason I have not banned him is because I just don't feel I have sufficient cause to do so. I don't expect everyone here to be a 'yes' man, and certainly don't expect everyone to agree with what I am trying to do with this site.
But I certainly am not saying that I will NEVER ban him, if I find sufficient reason to do so.
No, I have NOT banned Neil Gubitz. I have just asked him to leave. I have withdrawn his banner ad and refunded the balance of money he paid on the remaining impressions. I have also removed his name from the Supporters list as well as the front page of this site.
To be honest, after I posted the message in this thread duplicating his misdirected email, I had some trepidation thinking that maybe this was another one of those cases where an identity had been hacked and it wasn't Neil at all whom had stated those things. So when I came back to the computer after putting some hours in with the animals, the following email I got from Neil gave me mixed emotions:
Firstly, I am not so egotistical that I believe Neil, or anyone else, is going to denigrade the public and yet exempt ME in the same breath. Secondly, I did not take it personal at all. I just feel that someone with this sort of attitude will not be a positive influence for this site.
Anyway, my emotions were mixed, because on one hand I was glad I hadn't stuck my own foot down my throat with my own post and would have to eat crow because of my jumping to a conclusion on the authenticity of that email. On another hand I was glad that I would not have to dig into the system to try to figure out whom exactly had posted that email if it wasn't Neil. And thirdly, it saddened me that an email I sent to Neil just a few days proved to be, oddly, a premonition:
Emailed on 03/02/03 at 9:31 pm:
Anyway, after receiving the copy of the misdirected email, I came to the conclusion that Neil does not have this site's best interests at heart, and matter of fact, I am of the opinion that he is doing his level best to undermine it, at every opportunity, behind the scenes. Even in his apology letter sent to 27 recipients. What about the other 2,800 registered members of this site? Is he saying that his misdirected email DOES apply to the rest of them?
So I have asked Neil to leave. I just don't want him here any longer, but I have not banned him. The reason I have not banned him is because I just don't feel I have sufficient cause to do so. I don't expect everyone here to be a 'yes' man, and certainly don't expect everyone to agree with what I am trying to do with this site.
But I certainly am not saying that I will NEVER ban him, if I find sufficient reason to do so.
Darin Chappell
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Sue,
I appologize if my referrence to the "Dirty Dozen" made it seem as if I were part of some non-existant clique here on the BOI. The fact is that this is what Neil called us (myself and a few others that called him out for his . . .shall we say . . .inaccuracies?) during the thread of infamy.
The fact of the matter is that the dirty dozen is the opposite of a clique in that we were willing to look past the fact that Neil was one of the accepted regulars around here. Here was a guy that was well liked, well respected, and well known on the BOI. However, he started writing things that just did not make sense about his operation and his burglaries. A few of us called him on it, he reacted in the typical Neil fashion, and the name "Dirty Dozen" kind of stuck. It is a name I wear with a degree of pride BECAUSE it shows the lack of a clique mentality. However, it is a title I ONLY use in connection with Neil, and yes, I WAS rubbing his nose in it a little bit.
I'm sorry for the confusion, Sue. I hope this clears up what was intended, and I CERTAINLY hope that you will NEVER feel compelled to keep silent about any opinion you might have concerning an issue raised here!
I appologize if my referrence to the "Dirty Dozen" made it seem as if I were part of some non-existant clique here on the BOI. The fact is that this is what Neil called us (myself and a few others that called him out for his . . .shall we say . . .inaccuracies?) during the thread of infamy.
The fact of the matter is that the dirty dozen is the opposite of a clique in that we were willing to look past the fact that Neil was one of the accepted regulars around here. Here was a guy that was well liked, well respected, and well known on the BOI. However, he started writing things that just did not make sense about his operation and his burglaries. A few of us called him on it, he reacted in the typical Neil fashion, and the name "Dirty Dozen" kind of stuck. It is a name I wear with a degree of pride BECAUSE it shows the lack of a clique mentality. However, it is a title I ONLY use in connection with Neil, and yes, I WAS rubbing his nose in it a little bit.
I'm sorry for the confusion, Sue. I hope this clears up what was intended, and I CERTAINLY hope that you will NEVER feel compelled to keep silent about any opinion you might have concerning an issue raised here!
Sorry if this confused anyone, but I felt it was appropriate to break that original thread up into two parts, with THIS issue being in a thread by itself.
chris allen
Well-known member
Webslave I think your decision was wise, but I would not have disagreed at all if you did choose to "ban" Neil for what was said. I have never dealt with him, but I also never will. Chris Allen
NEWReptiles
New member
My thoughts also Rich. I wasnt on the good ole IM SORRY list, and to be quite honest, dont really care.
I have at times tried to stick up for Neil, and I pretty much summed it up in chat last night by saying "I am almost ashamed for sticking up for Neil when I thought he was right about certain things"
I cant remember anything I have ever done to Neil that was wrong, but i can think of at least 1 post I had that he chimed in on and belittled me.
I wonder why.
And also throw your 2cents in and make people feel like crap if they made a minor mistake.
NEWReptiles
New member
Discourtesy towards another member ...Warning Level 1... 4
Unnecessary roughness... Warning Level 1... 1
Private Messaging Abuse... Warning Level 2... 5
Racist / Prejudicial Remarks ...Warning Level 3 ...8
Excessive flames Warning... Level 2... 6
I dont know if PM's apply to the warning system, but in his remarks to many on and off of the threads, he has many times abused this site and its members.
Im not in any way saying what should be done, as I know either way banned or not, The right thing will be done.
Unnecessary roughness... Warning Level 1... 1
Private Messaging Abuse... Warning Level 2... 5
Racist / Prejudicial Remarks ...Warning Level 3 ...8
Excessive flames Warning... Level 2... 6
I dont know if PM's apply to the warning system, but in his remarks to many on and off of the threads, he has many times abused this site and its members.
Im not in any way saying what should be done, as I know either way banned or not, The right thing will be done.
Stardust
human
Sue,
I understand your post. I was one of those people at the beginning that didn't want to post here because I didn't know if I would be jumped on or not. I had a bad guy post too, with proof, and never did it on the off chance someone might be friends with the person in question, now it is far too late.
I have been assured as well that there isn't a ganging up affect on here, although at times that seems false, I have gritted my teeth and posted anyway. I have yet to be flamed.
I have voiced my opinion, misspelled words, and have went against some. I am happy to say I am still alive and well.
Please give it a try, test the waters so to speak like I did.
This place is nothing unless everyday people get on here and start posting.
I believe that Rich is trying to get this place going so all can enter and feel comfortable.
I understand your post. I was one of those people at the beginning that didn't want to post here because I didn't know if I would be jumped on or not. I had a bad guy post too, with proof, and never did it on the off chance someone might be friends with the person in question, now it is far too late.
I have been assured as well that there isn't a ganging up affect on here, although at times that seems false, I have gritted my teeth and posted anyway. I have yet to be flamed.
I have voiced my opinion, misspelled words, and have went against some. I am happy to say I am still alive and well.
Please give it a try, test the waters so to speak like I did.
This place is nothing unless everyday people get on here and start posting.
I believe that Rich is trying to get this place going so all can enter and feel comfortable.