Neil Gubitz - An unpleasant perspective

[Casey Hulse]

It would be telling

I would be very curious to know whether Neil made any contribution to Gina Gavins fund. I think if he did, it would show his heart is in the right place, but if he did not....?....?...maybe he is just broke. Oh well, we will never know.

 

[MiLadyDragonn]

RE: Gina Gauvin fund

Oh well, we will never know.

~Oh yes, we will! There is a list of the sites involved in the fund-raising as well as, a list of people who have made donations.


http://www.cricketfood.com



~ Oh yeah....this will also bring you to updates on Gina's condition and ways to make donations, in case you haven;t done so yet.

 

[E2MacPets]

I don't see him on the list
Heck, I'm broke but I've had all the information on my website from day 1... it's not much, but between the handful of hits that see it and prayers, it's worth something.

And on that topic, has anyone heard how her latest surgery went? It was supposed to be wednesday..

 

[MiLadyDragonn]

Hey Steven,
~ I PM'd you aboutwith an update on Gina.

~But the funny thing is, I was thinking...I wonder what Neil thinks about My using him and this well read thread to benefit someone else???

~Something good has to come out of all this wasted attention on someone who really does not deserve it.

 

[CheriS]

How sad, I have been offline sick for a week and then working to put some things together for Gina's Donation table this weekend at the Tampa Show..... I come back on here to find this thread and am kind of shocked. All I can say is to think about there may be a reason that Neil had been for lack of better words, hot and cold lately.

Reading most of this thread is disappointing to say the least, the only positive thing I can see from this thread is the above post.

That'is NOT saying Webslave was wrong in the steps he took, under the same situation I would probably do the same, but the things that followed I do not condone. I am sorry to see this happening, there are other illnesses beside physical and they can be even more damaging. Beating someone when they are down is not beneficial to anyone

 

[Sean Belanger]

I would be very curious to know whether Neil made any contribution to Gina Gavins fund. I think if he did, it would show his heart is in the right place, but if he did not....?....?...maybe he is just broke. Oh well, we will never know

I honestly don't think that if he contributed to her fund, it would make him a good guy. Either way, he still emailed someone about his true feelings towards the people of this site. The way I see it, Neil is THE car salesman in the herp business. He'll sell anything any way he can. I for one think this site is better off without him here.

 

[shadowlandz]

"Car Salesman of Herp Business"

Sean,
It's funny you should put it that way.
Over 20 years ago when I was out of a job and needed to support my family, I actually took a job as a car salesman. I hated it from the time I started but I did learn much about how salesman are trained and the mentality it took to be one.

Many sales meetings consisted of conversations referring to the consumers as idiots who needed to be controlled so that they would buy.
"Do whatever you have to, tell them whatever they want to near or even mentally abuse them if you have to but sell them the product." (Control them)

I went to huge sales meetings given by the manufacturers and heard the same stuff but only in a more civilized way.

I knew really successful sales people that spent all their spare time attending everything from Elks club meetings to Fund raising events where they openly participated giving money and time but they were also giving out their business cards at the ideal times.

I also spent time with these same people in private and witnessed their other sides. Many of them were nasty, vindictive, paranoid and just plain screwed up for lack of better words. Most of them really hated to be around people in general
and really didn't have anything good to say about them but when the phone rang a whole new person was sitting there.

I only lasted for a few months in the business because I wasn't cut out for that type of life but most of the people I knew back then started to go down hill pretty fast. They got to the point where they were having a hard time hiding their feelings of contempt that was growing about people in general. (These people are forcing me to be nice even though I don't like them) They found themselves voicing their dismay of people not only in private but in public too. (Mouthing off to the wrong people and it would start to get back) Last but not least they started to get too cocky and worse of all they would not be able to differenciate between the job and reality anymore. Thus: "BURNOUT"

Dealing with the public in any way can sometimes be a trying experience for anyone and depending on the situation you're in. There are times when you have to use all you restraint so you don't choke the **** out of the customer. This I'm sure has happened to all of us at one time or another. Better sometimes over the internet because we can do the symbolic choking in private. AHHH! If we could be held responsible for what we have said or done in private. (Venting is good sometimes.)

The other thing that I have learned over the years is that you can't make a overall judgement of the complete person based on a business deal or any situations in any way connected, "especially over the internet." It's hard enough judging people face to face let alone on a forum. How a person handles him or herself in business and what they have to offer is one thing but how they handle themself in private reflects the true nature of that person and who they really are. (Don't mix up the true person and just plain venting.) Getting upset with someone behind the keyboard or in private is one thing but telling somone else to undermind a situation (as in this case) is completely different. When you trust somone to have respect for you and what you do and find out that they are telling people that what you do is nothing but a game and worse yet how to undermind the whole thing. How would you feel.
There has been an admission of guilt and no matter how it was said or to who, it still means the same thing.

It all comes down to: Never base "personal" trust on words and business related actions alone. You're only setting youself up for disappointment.

This is only my opinion. Take it as you will.

 

[MSL]

Just got back from the Tampa show where I spent to much money, way to much money! Also had an opportunity to meet Neil although I did not introduce myself as a BOI participant (may do that tomorrow), I spent a few moments talking to him and found him to be a very personable guy. I enjoyed our brief conversation and feel compelled to speak what has been on my mind these past few days. I'm sure this won't make me very popular on the BOI but as I told Rich, who I also sought out to meet, I'll miss having Neil as part of this forum. I realize I'm pretty new to the BOI and the world of herps but I did find some humor in Neil's posts, they often made me smile. I also feel that he did help some unfortunates with his often time biting posts. Whether or not he 'practiced what he preached' I think that he has contributed to compelling quite a few 'bad guys' to 'do the right thing'. I feel for the bashing that he's been taking these past few days, can't help but think he's being made to appear a modern day male Medusa.

Guess I'm taking into consideration that Neil never meant for that post to make the forum, not that it makes it OK but it wasn't meant to be seen. I also feel that some recent threads where Neil felt pressured by members to rethink his actions (rightfully so BTW) may have had him a little disgruntled with some people. I'm not saying what he did was right, but I know that in the past I've said and thought things when I was miffed that I totally recant when I've had a chance to cool off and rethink my own actions. Course I've never been fool hearty enough to actually send them out over the internet, but that doesn't mean that I haven't been a fool just for thinking them.

So although some of you may think I'm not justified in posting this, I haven't been an active member of the BOI for very long actually less than a month and I'm sure I've missed some issues that have arisen in the past. Also I'm not involved in the business, other than spending way to much money! And don't have a reputation or relationship that's been threatened over Neil's actions. Still I felt compelled to tell Rich my thoughts at the show, which has led me to feel compelled to tell all of you. Hope this won't be held against me as I really enjoy this board and feel that you are all doing a great service for those of us who purchase reptiles over the internet. Especially us newbies who haven't learned the ropes yet.

Perhaps not forgive Neil, but maybe move past this if possible.

Thanks for reading,
Meryl Lechner

 

[Casey Hulse]

A new perspective

Meryl, I for one always enjoy seeing new people say what is on their mind, whether I agree or not. I think that is what is so good about this forum, anyone can participate, sometime some broad shoulders are helpful. welcome.

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Casey & Jude,

I can say for a fact that the list of people who donated to the fund for Gina is not all inclusive at present. I just checked and know that it does not show everyoe who has made a donation. I don't know how often they update it, but I am guessing it is at least a few days off, maybe more.

I really don't think it says much about Neil one way or the other though when you consider whether or not he made a donation to that fund. Heck, I am not in his corner on this current foul up, I think he deserves to be banned, that is my opinion. I also think his making or not making a donation has nothing to do with the current affair unless I missed something. He probably has enough to think about regarding these forums and how he used or maybe misused them without having to worry about being judged regarding whether or not he made such a donation, don't you think?

Best regards,
Glenn B

 

[The BoidSmith]

Meryl,

I'll second Casey's words. Welcome!

I think that he has contributed to compelling quite a few 'bad guys' to 'do the right thing'.

I agree with you on that.

Guess I'm taking into consideration that Neil never meant for that post to make the forum, not that it makes it OK but it wasn't meant to be seen.

In my opinion that was exactly what was wrong with that message.

I also feel that some recent threads where Neil felt pressured by members to rethink his actions (rightfully so BTW) may have had him a little disgruntled with some people.

True. But so did the people he prosecuted for even such "hedious crimes" as not signing their name in the BOI.

I'm not saying what he did was right, but I know that in the past I've said and thought things when I was miffed that I totally recant when I've had a chance to cool off and rethink my own actions.

And so was Neil. He was given every chance to cool off, re-think his actions and come back. But you have to be able to learn from your mistakes (the problem is that some people think they are "perfect" and above the rest).

So although some of you may think I'm not justified in posting this, I haven't been an active member of the BOI for very long actually less than a month and I'm sure I've missed some issues that have arisen in the past.

See, here is where it is now different. You can post your discent and it will be respected.

Also I'm not involved in the business, other than spending way to much money!

Bought anyone from Neil at the show?

Welcome again!

Best regards.

 

[Casey Hulse]

Glen,

Although I do not want to debate the issue where Gina is involved, I will say that not too long ago, in a VERY PUBLIC way Neil showed his generosity by donating a couple of ball pythons to a young man who was swindled. I think that his "behind the scene" actions would display the true character of the man. Perhaps it was before you started reading these threads .

 

[MSL]

Casey and Alvaro

[ I'll second Casey's words. Welcome! ]

Thank-you both for the welcome. It's much appreciated


[ True. But so did the people he prosecuted for even such "hedious crimes" as not signing their name in the BOI. ]

LOL Busted! But in my defense it was my first post and I had entirely skipped over the posting rules. Figured they contained the same blah, blah that I've read on dozens of other boards. I did email Rich and take full responsibility for my hedious act Probably never skip over posting rules again...lesson learned.

[ Bought anyone from Neil at the show? ]

No, I didn't but I'm sure I made several other vendors $mile.


Thanks again,
Meryl Lechner

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Casey,

I fully agree:

I think that his "behind the scene" actions would display the true character of the man.

In my opinion, it was his behind the scenes actions (or words) that displayed his true character, and that is why he got himself into another mess.

I did not mean as if to come off as debating anything about Gina; you will get not debate from me there - she needs our help. I just thought it odd to bring her up in the first place, but now I see I probably missed something once again. I always seem to wind up someplace either a step ahead or behind! Makes for a confusing but interesting life.

Best regards,
Glenn

 

[CheriS]

I agree with Glenn's point and what alvaro has to say over this whole situation, but those of you who seem to think this does matter.......

Yes, Neil has contributed to Gina's fund. Ronnie tries to update it nightly, but this week has been hectic for several of us, trying to put things together for a table at the Tampa show for Gina and dealing with the donated items and animals. Ronnie has not been able to update the site the past few days as he is staying in Tampa for that show since yesterday, and prior to that not online much as he was getting things ready.

And just in case someone thinks this was done recently due to this thread, I want to point out Neil emailed me on 2/23/03, about a contribution shortly after the first post was put up about Gina's condition and we make arrangements which he did follow through on.

I think this whole issue is sad, Neil I personally thought contributed here and did help others and he spoke right up and admitted he wrote that, of course, he thought it was private to another also... something I am sure many of us have done at times.

The reptile community online is a small one, anyone that is online soon learns about others personalities and who to avoid or who to listen too, who is a smartass, who is a self proclaimed intellectual and who can make you laugh or is just a dummy playing at being big..... and how much veracity you put in what they are saying about a given topic.

Was there not a rule here about posting others emails without consent? Is there also not rules about calling other names and negative unnecessary comments..... or do those only apply to a few?

As far as the

I would be very curious to know whether Neil made any contribution to Gina Gavins fund. I think if he did, it would show his heart is in the right place, but if he did not....?....?...maybe he is just broke. Oh well, we will never know

You know now, and with the people at his table, sales I saw today and the quality of those animals I saw, I think I can assure you the other is not true either

I hope we can put the pack mentality to rest now and get back the topic of vital issues in this industry

 

[Stardust]

I so agree with Cheri and Meryl.
Yes, I have been upset with Neil about having to "beg" him to refund. And I have voiced my opinion on the matters on here and to him. But that does not mean I will bash him.
What he said in the email was wrong, but it was intended for one persons eyes. Maybe he should not be a moderator on here because of what he said, we all remember the Mario thread" but I don't think that he can't voice his opinion either, just not as a moderator.
Ok, he was wrong. He is human. We all make mistakes. This is harsh.
And in my opinion, and I don't know Gina personally, but I personally if in her shoes would not like my name brought up like this. That is just me.
How long is this going to continue? Maybe Neil has a point, maybe some should grow up a little. Get over it.

the

 

[Stardust]

Upon re-reading my above post, I think I need to clarify a bit.
I think it is great that Gina's banner in on this thread, as it will be widely seen. I believe her and her family needs all the support and prayers from us.
What I do not think I would like is deciding whether a person is a good guy or bad guy on whether they donated or not.
About the bashing thing. There are different facets to everyone. I would hate to think that with every mistake I make I would get bashed. No thought of any good that I have done.
I don't really call myself an optimist but I would hope that I can be more understanding and wise than to base a negative view on a person just by the mistakes made, that I would weigh both sides before making a decision like that. That perhaps I could rise above the anger and view this situation as a whole rather than a fraction of the whole being.

 

[MiLadyDragonn]

A word. Please?

I hope we can put the pack mentality to rest now and get back the topic of vital issues in this industry

~I do agree and I believe I made that clear in my post. The "attention" and effort wasted on "Neil-Bashing" would do much more good and better benefit someone who needs our focus. This is why I jumped at the opening to bring Gina's situation to light again. whether Neil had made a donation or not is of little importance to me. Personally, I figured he either did or would. I have seen that side of him.

~By jumping in, I was hoping Gina's plight would get to readers who had not been aware. It worked! I have had a number of people contact me asking how to make a donation and/or post the banner on their sites and homepages.

~As far as Neil is concerned, I never had issue with him. He jumped on me a little bit long ago when I had some guy stalking me online...but he made valid points and I took note of them. Was he a little harsh? Sure. But some people are just that way. I have met many of them in my line of work. Fact is, he was right. And now that I have started, I AM going to add my OWN feelings about this feeding frenzy.

I wonder what Neil thinks about My using him and this well read thread to benefit someone else???

~ I said that because I truly do wonder? That, in itself, would give ME some insight into this man. Sarcasm, harsh words, etc. are, many times, used to hide some deeper rooted pain, hurtful history, or as a defense to keep others at arm's length. Who has never said {or, at least, thought}hurtful things about others when we felt threatened or cornered....whether we were right or wrong??

~Who are we to throw stones from our own glass houses? None of us can truly know what goes on behind the scenes. People have been known to have many burdens and problems in their personal lives...even their inner being...that we could never comprehend.

~Something good has to come out of all this wasted attention on someone who really does not deserve it.

~Again, I will quote myself and then say, yes, this is WASTED attention. It is doing no good. And if you say that it makes YOU feel better, then you need to look further into yourself. NO ONE person "deserves" the verbal beating and merciless pummeling that Neil has gotten for nearly 4 pages now. And no one here is so guiltless that he deserves to make him/her self feel better by trashing another person. Let it go, for goodness sake!

~ I have recently been faced with some tough times. As a result, I am seeing things differently than I have in many years. May I humbly suggest that you all do as I have begun to do...re-arrange your priorities and find something to do that will make it easy to sit back and say..."I have accomplished something wonderful today. My existence is justified."

~Life is too short.

 

[Casey Hulse]

I would be very curious to know whether Neil made any contribution to Gina Gavins fund. I think if he did, it would show his heart is in the right place, but if he did not....?....?...maybe he is just broke. Oh well, we will never know

Yes, Neil has contributed to Gina's fund.

Thank you, I was hoping that this may be the case.
I started this and was hoping that if he did make a contribution it would be mentioned, Neil PM'd me and told me he had and asked that I not mention it.

I think that his "behind the scene" actions would display the true character of the man.

I still feel this way.
Neil contrubuted to Ginas fund before I mentioned anything, Thank you Neil!
Let's drop this. Thank you

 

[Stardust]

Well said Jude.