Neil Gubitz=Good Guy

[Dave Lawson]

I simply ask Neil for the contact info of his attorney, Do any of you think for a second that I am going to phone him so my Ph. # comes up on his caller ID. At which point he could yes I theatened him. As far as the e-mail goes same point.

Yes, I violated probation.
and because of the you want me out.
Gee I don't sell bad animals

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Well, you're right about that.... you DON'T sell bad animals, because the people you STEAL THEM FROM know how to take care of them!!

Neil

 

[JungleHabitats]

Dave cry me a friggin river

Theres more then one way to skin a cat or jackass in your case

there is this thing the phone companies implement call call block you Dial * then two simple #'s TA DAAAA you number doesnt show up , the also make these things called a PAYPHONE i see Neil doesnt hide his phone number why do you ? damn it now you will have to reply ... i take that back dont answer that just fade slowly into the background and take what gets dealt you like a man if you know what that means ... DONT complain we dont care we dont wanna here you whine about stuff when you are worse then the whinning you do.

Neil to answer you question you asked me i dont really have any animosity to you you havent done me wrong and never will so thats not my issue .What is is how anyone person can have so many lapse of reasons and for get this and that but yet remeber other things ... i dunno i guess its selective memory.i guess i dont understand you world because i have never brokered or sold things i havent seen first hand . so i cant get into the details or what ever and dont care to i just wish for one week the board would go without a bad guy post or who did what to who , just a little harmony for once here would be amazing. Maybe thats wishing for to much who knows or maybe im having a really <font color=red>[bleep]</font>ty day and wanted to voice a opinion.None the less im done
hope both of you get what you want and Dave i hope you just get out of the business period.

 

[Dave Lawson]

Neil,


Can you prove that last post?

Well, you're right about that.... you DON'T sell bad animals, because the people you STEAL THEM FROM know how to take care of them!!

If so please do, here !!!!!!!!

 

[bud mierkey]

come on guys

Lets just try to get along all this bickering is not helping anyone.
w-s must have a lot of tolerance to let this go on and on.
I almost fell into the neil and dave war.
who is right well its gone on so long and there has been so much bs its hard to now to tell which side is right.
I am going to just sit back and give it a while before I judge either of them.
so keep it up guys
I am a newbe here so im going quiet.
later

 

[bud mierkey]

I was not too clear on last post.

ok let me try to dig myself out.
I was exausted I was not trying to piss anyone off.
Neil has a clean record with me.
Dave has not done anything to me either.
I attacked dave on another thread.
called him several unsavory names and ect...
Then the fun began emails started coming in from both sides of the fight .
I have played a attourney off and on and one thing I have found is that if one side has a lot of evidence and the other does not the lacking side is at a disadvantage but if both parties bombard the court with loads of evidence going both ways its harder to convict one side.
I got bombarded from all sides.
neil and dave have been at it long enough to have a answer
for all aspects of their fight.

I figured it world be wiser to sit back a while examine the many
accusations.
some how it made me a bad person being neutral.
I ask forgiveness

Can anyone that is not personaly involved give me a synopsys
of the war and how it has progressed to this point?

also I have been clearly pro Neil.
I have not given dave any slack but that was not good enough last night when I posted.
who knows I may flame dave into hell but not without looking at the big picture.
fair is fair
I have my own war to fight.
later

 

[Dave Lawson]

Bud,

Just to clear the the air a little. I wrote you One e-mail and it only ask you to call me, correct?

To everyone here, Bud was big enogh to investigate into the entire matter between Neil and I. He checked out stories and looked into some of the info that he has read and heard. Then he was honest enough to come back on this thread and the other and admit that he jumped the gun then he did call me and tell me the same. He did not pick a side he only looked at the whole picture and with him live here in this area he had a chance to get the entire story not only what is posted here. I can't say who he talked to or the questioned that he ask (if any).

Now if I can only get others to do the same.

 

[JungleHabitats]

ok heres my opinion

Dave lawson ,

Ok you asked for it so here it is .

One thing that is a KNOWN fact you have quite a extensive record for unsavory deeds , while im not going to search the many threads here to pull them back up they are none the less there .You were also fingered by a police report stating admittance to having been involved to some extent into some involvement in missing snakes , you were fingered and named by one local person as someone they should look at for the break in at there place , you were also named by another person another for i think it was stalking , fraud ( or something there close to it ) Now as i stated in another post 1-2 pages back until you can prove yourself 100% innocent of any accusations i have to go with the facts of your past and what is noted on a POLICE REPORT that the evidence points to you as the culprit. Now i will be the first to come up IF or WHEN someone else is proved to be at the bottom of the break ins in that area. Maybe im wrong in my thinking but when someone with a track record as yours is named / involved in something that there is a police report filed with your name on it i tend to believe written facts over your word .With everything in your closet Dave i would not put it past you to be the one involved in the break ins and trying to make it look otherwise. As to Neils history its plain and clear here to he has stated things heclaims were not meant for all to see andwas taken out of context ... **shrug** i have always lived by if you are gonna say something about anyone inparticular use there name dont be general in description ... i would not have choosen the words you choose neil in your email if i was only talking of a few because it left the door wide open to be slammed in your face by many.

Bud if you do a search on their two names you will find more threads with many more posts then you could read in a days time to form a more indepth opinion on. many of us here have been here from the onset of this hatfield & mcKoy fued going on and havebecame tired of the back n forth catfight at hand , If oneway or the other it would be settled people here would be tickled pink and could lay to rest the stories but as to date nothing has been proved 100% to one or the others advantage its still a pissing match IMHO to see who can sway public opinion to there corner...

 

[bud mierkey]

correct

I am just being carefull.
As I said I am PRO_NEIL cause he seems like a nice guy and was helpfull on his own without being asked thats things that
I look at. a mean person would not act as such.
but there is a little more info I need.
yes dave only sent one email out of 20 I got.
If anybody has a right to be mad at me its dave.
I had no idea this was as big as I found out.
like I said there is a little BS as in any conflict.
I will pull the rest of the posts and read them it will take a while.
so both of you give me a chance to make my own judgement.
that way i will not have to defend my self cause i missed a bit of facts.
later

 

[Dave Lawson]

Alan,

I have never hid my past record. But do you understand that I can call the police right now report a burglary and say that I think you did it and your name will be put on it as a suspect. Now should that be held against you?

 

[KNOBTAIL]

BUD, whether you think their might

be some redeaming value in Dave or Neil for that matter, is entirely up to you. But Dave has gone beyond the norm. As indicated earlier, he is a convicted felon. I dont know if this pertains to animals or people or both. I also know he has a substantial judgement against him, and I dont know if their are other judgements pending, I also know that he is a probation violator, and I am sure that their may be some additonal jail time that he may be looking forward to. I also know that he is banned from major herp shows as a vendor for bad checks or because of thievery or a combination of both. I also know that he is the worst example of someone that should not be in this industry attempting to represent the best of what the herp world has to offer.

These are serious problems that can easily be proved. Their are enough threads on this subject to cover the US. The problem is that "misery loves company" Neil is an easy target for Dave. Not that their are no threads on Neil, on the contrary, their are plenty. But that does not include jail time, credit unworthyness, judgements, parole and only God knows what else.

So from my perspective, their is nothing to think about here, if Dave can manipulate someone to draw them into a circle , he will make every attempt to lower this person to Daves own level.
My suggestion to you would be look at the facts of where these people stand today and weigh that on a scale. I think you will see that as many of the difficulties that Neil has had, they dont even compare to the difficulties that lie ahead for Dave.

 

[Python Dreams]

I personally feel that anyone that has this much drama going on, both Neil and Dave, should be entirely avoided. I really would not take the chance on Dave, just for the fact that maybe the animals were stolen and he has just been in the middle of too many possible bad scenarios. As for Neil, he probably hasn't seen the animal, might not know the sex, etc.... On and on, he forgot or was told something different by someone else and wasn't his fault, how could it die 3 days later?? It was eating perfect... We've all hashed this out in the past, and we will for a long time until everyone involved can truly clean up their act.
Jerry,
As for your last post I almost feel as though you have been manipulated to someone's level and it is not Dave's. How many years is one supposed to be in the business and still make mistake after mistake. How many years are you still considered a rookie? At what point is a spade a spade.
As for Dave, I don't believe that I have read any "Bad Guy" posts of him selling misrepresented animals or dead animals or anything along those lines. I really would like to see proof of all that he has done... Real proof.. Not that his name is on a police report. If it was known Dave did these things don't you think maybe that he would be arrested for it. Even the stolen animals... Has any of this been proven or is it hearsay? I think that you would probably have a better chance of getting a well represented animal from Dave, although from what I've read he could be a violent, and possibly on the prowl. As far as felons go, their are probably quite a few in our industry that have a good name (I'm not a felon, nor do I have a name) and isn't necessarily proof that one is a horrendous person. Unless, maybe the reason for the felony was related to reptiles. I am not here to defend either of these guys, I'm just surprised that Jerry can smell the difference between 2 toilets (possible crappy situations).
Tom Baker

 

[KNOBTAIL]

well Tom, I guess thats the difference

between being a felon and being a police officer. I can smell the difference! But more than that i can read between the lines.

If you want to consider Neil a "screw up" I am sure their is plenty of evidence to proove your point. But Neil is not a felon, does not get banned from shows, has no judgements against him, nor to the best of my knowldege writes bad checks.

I am not taking sides other than Dave has a habit and a purposeful one at that of continuously posting whenever he can about Neil. Its one thing to add to a discussion, its another to bait a person for a response, and that is exactly what Dave is doing. He had already written at least over a dozen threads on this post. THATS MY BASIC COMPLAINT . Moreso than that , what is really behind it other than to push Neil to the point of responding and that is exactly what Dave wants. Nothing constructive , inciteful repititon, goating one after the other.

 

[Dave Lawson]

To answer your question, In my life I have only 2 infractions concerning animals 1 in the early 80's for poop in one of my Tiger cages and the second was in the late 80's for over crowding of corn snakes in both cases I only paid court cost.

As to date I have only been questioned about 1 burglary and that was only after I was put down as a suspect, after they checked my store and home along with the people that they were told I sold the animals to I was cleared. I would like to add that several other people were also questioned encluding other pet shops and wholesellers in the area.

 

[Dave Lawson]

Jerry did you know

That yes Neil is a felon !!! from N.Y. and if Neil told me the truth when I first met him some 5 years ago he is on parole as we speak, again this is all based on Neil telling the truth.

You speak of me trying to push Neil to snap by posting about him well not to burst your bubble but 1 of the reasons Neil was banned was for continuelly posting my name in threads for no other reason than to bash me. Or that in the thread " Russ Anderson bad guy" Neil posted that Russ and I should move in together, up until he posted that my name was not mentioned and I had not posted there. If you read all of Neil's post since he was reinstated here you will find other threads that Neil was thrown my name into it.

Now as far as the bad check goes, If you odered a pied ball python from me and I sent you a Corn snake would you have paid me for the pied and let it go at that? no, I think you would have only paid me for what you got, correct? well that is all I did, I paid for what I got.

In my opinion I stay with the topic at hand as mush as you do, Just because you do not that I should post it doesn't make it wrong. It is your opinion but it is just that "YOUR OPINION" others may share it but remember other do not.

Now I think that it could be said that you are only coming here and posting in the manner that you are to push me to the point of breaking. The last couple post that you have made are in the same area that you are condeming me for.

, what is really behind it other than to push Neil to the point of responding and that is exactly what Dave wants. Nothing constructive , inciteful repititon, goating one after the other.

Incert the name Dave where it says Neil

Incert the name Jerry where it says Dave


That is the way it looks Jerry.

 

[Dave Lawson]

I called Neil's lawyer today

and the lady that answered the phone today said that Todd would call me if he needed to talk to me. That was before lunch today it is now almost 6:00 pm and no call. She did say that she was not sure if Neil was a client.

I want to ask everyone to do he a favor, Neil is so very quick to say that I admitted to robbung Herp Hobby shop, Joe Fauci's and Josie's pets along with a host of other placesincluding his own place, I would ask that if you think I did them to please call the owners because Joe's and Josie's have not been robbed and they know who the person was that got Herps. As far as Neil's everyone knows that was NEIL.

 

[John Apple]

Dave.....at this point ..who cares!!!!

I must say your ramblings about Neil , as flawed as he may be , are starting to get old sooooo....come up with some new material

 

[Vince]

yeah i think eveyone gets the point, if you want an honest smooth deal DONT do bussiness with this guy Neil.

 

[Julie Moore]

Here we friggin go again. . .

I don't have to stalk my ex-girlfriend (and get arrested for it) to get her back. . .

For Dave to have even denied that statement is beyond me. There were several people that were well aware of his actions and him stalking me, and that is why not only was there a judgement for a temporary injunction against him when he began stalking me, but later a court ordered injunction. Not to mention that the Florida state attorney saw that there was enough to go after him on the stalking charges also. That is why he is currently on probation. As for him being arrested for VOP - him having been arrested for the forgery charges (which had to do with him FORGING his ex-girlfriend Nikki's info and signature on a postal change of address form) or for him being arrested for the bad checks. From what I understand she had to get an injunction/restraining order on him too after they split. Just for the record - I have a folder approximately and inch thick of all the paperwork and such from having to deal with TPD, TPD detectives, and court paperwork concerning David Lawson. He even went as far as trying to get an injuction against me to make him look like a victim to cover up all of the lies he had been telling people about me still contacting him and - yep - you guessed it - it got DENIED. Not only did the judge see through his story, the judge caght him in a lie. . .LMAO! Imagine that!!

I don't have to pretend I'm James Thorton to call my father and tell him that *I* did my own burglaries. . . .

This I actually witnessed and heard Dave doing. He called Neil's father several times posing as Thorton.

I don't have to bad mouth Julie Moore and tell people she had your baby, like the liar you are. . .

I can't even believe Lawson denied this one. . . Of all of the bull chit that was e-mailed out from Lawson posing as me, only by a stroke of luck was I able to get my hands on a copy of one of those e-mails. As far as I am concerned that in itself was just as awful if not much worse than him actually talking chit about me.

THE ONLY REAL THING ABOUT ME IS THAT i AM A a$$hole

Oops - forgot to mention a deceitful, theiving, *L*I*A*R*

 

[Vince]

damn so all of this helps people? you all should learn how to keep your personal bussiness personal.