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New Babies! Look just like the dam - inheritable trait?

Bioteacher

Bioteacher

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This one is for all you morph nuts out there. I'm not the biggest BP guy or know much about many of the morphs, so I could use some help. I realize everyone does this, but I am not morph crazy. I just noticed after a day how much the babies looked like mom and that they didn't really look normal to me.

Background info:

I purchased a 2008 female from an individual who bought her from Ball Boutique (I've already e-mailed Rick for any available info). Anyways, she is 66% het VPI axanthic and 66% het Snow. I bred her for the first time this year and got 5 viable eggs from her. I paired her with a male 100% het Pied 100% het Albino... or so I thought. My male Black Pastel het Ghost was in her tank for literally a couple hours while cleaning one day... so always a possibility.

Of the 5 eggs, 4 produced. 1 egg collapsed early causing the baby to die... yolk hardened or she drowned... not sure, but the baby was fully formed and dead when the egg was cut open. The 3 of the four surviving babies (and the dead baby) all look exactly like mom. They have a neck stripe, a tail stripe, some head and side blushing, speckles in their alien heads, and some dark spots in the dorsal patterning. These traits point to the specter morph or fire morph, but mom is very dark as if she had black pastel mixed in.

I'm not saying they are morphs or even jumping at hinting they're morphs.... I just want some opinions since it's very odd that the traits were inherited (hinting at codominance). I think I may keep them all back to breed back to mom, to really prove whether or not there is something. I'm probably just looking into it too much right?

Anyways... I know a lot of talking... here are the photos:
Dam (Normal? Dark Specter? Black Pastel Specter?)
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A couple of the Babies (all possible het albino, het VPI axanthic, het pied I believe). One even has some white scales along its spine.
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1st breath
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THANKS for looking!!!
 
The white on top isn't white scales. It's where the snake rubbed it's skin. That will be gone when he sheds.
Looks like the babies got the dark coloring like the parent.
See what happens by breeding one of the offspring back.
 
If the black pastel would have copulated with her there would have more then likely been one black pastel out of the four babies so odds are he didn't get her. Sounds to me like you proved out your female to be only 66% het axanthic and defiantly not het albino unless the albino just didn't hit the odds. So now all you have is possible hets for pied and axanthics. As far as I know they can't be het for a co-dom trait or carry the genes but who knows stranger things have happened. lol.. Best of luck to ya this up coming season. I had to learn the lesson of only using one male the hard way a couple years ago.
 
SPJ said:
The white on top isn't white scales. It's where the snake rubbed it's skin. That will be gone when he sheds.
Looks like the babies got the dark coloring like the parent.
See what happens by breeding one of the offspring back.
Click to expand...

Steve - Interesting! She came straight out of the egg like that. She would have rubbed the scales that badly in the egg? Yeah, they have similar coloring and patterning. I don't know enough about BP morphs to say much, but seeing the coloration and patterning being passed down makes me think their could be something. Either way I'm happy with some nice looking normals! :)

August - I'm hoping to be able to breed one back in a couple years, to really see if anything interesting is going on. You're probably right about the Black Pastel - just couldn't figure out the dark babies. They still all have the chance to be het for albino - the probable sire is 100% het Albino/Pied. Who knows, maybe when I breed them back some recessive traits will come out. I was just calling "it" possible het codom because if the traits passed from the mother to the offspring turn out to be genetic and not just a fluke, and turn out to produce a super form (homozygous) they'd point to being codominant. Similar to how a fire (heterozygous) produces a black eyed lucy (homozygous).

Thank you both for taking a look and leaving comments!
 
Lots of of offspring get traits from there parents there supposed to it doesnt mean that you have anything going on and it doesnt that you dont have anything going but parents always influence there babies. Now for my opinion on what i think is really going on, you said that you've breed a 66%het axanthic 66%het snow x 66% het pied 66% het albino i think that you have some offspring that maybe het for 3 or 4 genes and the genes are trying to express themselves. For example if you breed a caramel glow x g-stripe clown the babies are going to be quad hets and they wont look like normals due to all the genes being mixed together.
 
Steve - weird. Did not know that. I'm use to breeding boas more, so no eggs, so no white dorsal scales from rubbing.

Ernest - thanks for the insight. Yeah 66% het Snow x 100% het albino pied. I understand the genetics fairly well - I teach a lot of it at Marist College. I just think it's strange to see the pattern inherited so well. I don't know a lot about BP patterns being passed down in normals though. Have you bred many normals? I'm curious to see how much of patterns are passed down. I just think that het genes aren't being expressed in any way, because they look exactly like the mother.... and she is only 66% het for snow. I could be completely wrong of course! haha Genetics are always fun I think.
 
Bioteacher said:
Steve - weird. Did not know that. I'm use to breeding boas more, so no eggs, so no white dorsal scales from rubbing.

Ernest - thanks for the insight. Yeah 66% het Snow x 100% het albino pied. I understand the genetics fairly well - I teach a lot of it at Marist College. I just think it's strange to see the pattern inherited so well. I don't know a lot about BP patterns being passed down in normals though. Have you bred many normals? I'm curious to see how much of patterns are passed down. I just think that het genes aren't being expressed in any way, because they look exactly like the mother.... and she is only 66% het for snow. I could be completely wrong of course! haha Genetics are always fun I think.
Click to expand...

Lol maybe your right, i have 3 normals females that i keep and breed solely because there patterns are different and that they pass there pattern down to there offspring. The normals i have i call them gene enhancers because they improve the morphs that i breed to them, i breed my fire to my fairly light normal last year and the fires that came out were incredable due to the mother passing down her strong pattern and blushing. Like you said genetics are fun and it seems even more rewarding when you dont actually know how they work, good luck and i hope you continue your project.
 
Thanks Ernest! Pretty cool that your normals pass on some awesome patterning. The more I look around, I think mine are just normals.... the neck and tail stripe and darker coloration. Looking around, I see some of those exact traits in the het albinos.... so maybe it's just a marker for het albinos?
 
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