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New patternless mutation with dark/partial dark eyes

P

pdragon

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These guys are called "Zeros." I purchased a pair of these from a breeder here who decided to get out of high end dragons. He purchased them from a european breeder as babies back in december. These have no trans, hypo, witblits, or silverback influence. This looks to be a third patternless mutation.

Josh
 

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This is a pic of the female. Sorry for the dirty foot. I was feeding these guys hornworms, and they were flinging guts all over the place:)

Josh
 

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Gorgeous dragons! I can't wait to see what comes of this project. I had to laugh at the hornworm guts though, I just literally scrubbed my leucistics for the same reason. Somehow they manage to make them explode everywhere. ;)
 
They are looking great! Must say they are definately better looking than what they were as youngsters. They seem to be completely patternless now. On the photos I have of those two one could clearly see that they did not hatch 100% patternless. Their 'shoulder pads' were dark coloured plus they had mottled backs. They have turned out exceptional! I would be very cautious of saying they dont have any traces of Witblits or Silverback in them as the person who 'bred' them hatched a clutch of eggs for a friend. This was the result. They have no history of the clutch. At least this is what I heard. It would be highly unlikely that they should have those genes and in my mind it is definately not Witblits related as they did not hatch 100% patternless. Hopefully this morph is compatible with one of the other patternless morphs. Even if not, then I am sure there are big things to come from them given they have dark eyes. I would love to mate one of them with my dark eyed Witblits. Best of luck with them Josh! You'll create magic from them.
 
Thanks everyone!:)

Sushi-hahaha....they are so messy, I almost don't want to use them for feeders anymore. The next day when they come out is even worse.

Jaques- These pics are from 2-13. I need to take some new ones. These guys are so white. The male now is as white on top as his belly. These are definately not silverback. It can take silverbacks a year or more to make a full transformation, and you really don't notice a change until they are at least 4-5 months old(average). Also, normal silvers turn very dark, almost black before they start to turn silver, and they don't have dark/partial dark eyes. Are you sure zeros hatch normal? I have seen pics of them too as little babies. They were all patternless, just darker. I will attach a pic of one of these zeros at about 7-8 inches.

The dark eyes on your witblits may be an indication that the morph cannot produce color, because it's removing color from the eyes, similar to a true leucistic. I imagine these zeros are also similar.

Josh

Josh
 

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Thanks Jaques.... The male just started to breed. It will be a couple years before I will figure these guys out:)

Josh
 
Thanks:)

I would like to combine these zeros to silverback and witblits eventually. I have already combined witblits with trans, hypo, silverback, italian leatherback, and dunner.

Josh
 
Do you believe that any of these morphs may be combatible with the ne "zeros"? And I have a question I have been dieing to ask but didnt know who to ask lol figured you might be the person that would know as I am new to breeding lol. How do you solidify a breeding line? Such as dunners like it only started with a few from 1 clutch correct? Then how would you be able to splice the two genes together without mixing bloodlines? Or is this done eventually to solidify the line?
 
They could be, I need to do some test breedings to find out.

I'm not understanding your question.

Dunners is so far a dominant trait. This morph and leatherback(codominant) require no level of inbreeding to produce more. Breed one to any normal scaled dragon and roughly half your babies will be dunners. It's not something that can be diluted like color. Red color(for example) is a line bred trait that requires breeding red to red to red, generation after generation, to increase the numbers.

Josh
 
Oh I'm sorry I asked my question incorectly lol, what I ment was more for the resecive gene, I dont know much about the dunners forgot they were co-doms, but I was asking more about the resecives, like trans,hypo,axenthic(not sure if its resesive) and the paternless morphs discovered recently. Im no genecist or expert breeder, but someone down the line in order to get breeding pairs do you have to inbreed 2-3 generations down the road from one het to another?
 
pdragon said:
Thanks everyone!:)

Sushi-hahaha....they are so messy, I almost don't want to use them for feeders anymore. The next day when they come out is even worse.

Jaques- These pics are from 2-13. I need to take some new ones. These guys are so white. The male now is as white on top as his belly. These are definately not silverback. It can take silverbacks a year or more to make a full transformation, and you really don't notice a change until they are at least 4-5 months old(average). Also, normal silvers turn very dark, almost black before they start to turn silver, and they don't have dark/partial dark eyes. Are you sure zeros hatch normal? I have seen pics of them too as little babies. They were all patternless, just darker. I will attach a pic of one of these zeros at about 7-8 inches.

The dark eyes on your witblits may be an indication that the morph cannot produce color, because it's removing color from the eyes, similar to a true leucistic. I imagine these zeros are also similar.

Josh

Josh
Click to expand...

Josh, I posted a pic of A5 in the other thread. He is so far our most orange dragon.

Regarding the black eyes and colour. I don't think the black eyes indicate that Witblits can't hold colour. We are seeing brighter coloured dragons every year and I am sure super-saturated Witblits will pop out somewhere, sometime. I have seen extreme orange translucents in Germany (and likely there are some in USA as well).

Regarding the Zeros. Someone sent me pics of them when they were very young. Unsure of the age. You could clearly see that they had faint markings on their backs plus the sub-orbital stripe was visible. I would thus say they werent born 100% patternless.

I have heard of non-genetic (normally associated with abberant incubation temperatures) patternless reptiles. Do you know if this has been reported in Bearded dragons?

Someone mentioned/asked if the black eyed Witblits isnt a true leucistic. Definately not. The female black eyed Witblits has a nice yellow tinge to her. I think the Zero's are closer to true leucistics than Witblits.

I have a gut feeling that the Zeros and Witblits is not the same mutation and would not be compatible. The Zeros remind me alot of the silver dragon produced by Ruling reptiles except it had 'normal' eyes. http://www.rulingreptiles.com/silver.htm
 
"Someone sent me pics of them when they were very young. Unsure of the age. You could clearly see that they had faint markings on their backs plus the sub-orbital stripe was visible. I would thus say they werent born 100% patternless."


Send me the pics:)


"I have heard of non-genetic (normally associated with abberant incubation temperatures) patternless reptiles. Do you know if this has been reported in Bearded dragons?"

It's possible, but I have never seen it happen with dragons. Over the years I have experimented with different incubation temps/fluctuations. Brought the eggs from one extreme to another. Never hatched one that resembled a zero.

"I have a gut feeling that the Zeros and Witblits is not the same mutation and would not be compatible."

Probably not, but hopefully at some point we will find out. On the outside, they look nothing like each other. Not even close. Same goes with zeros and silverbacks.

Josh
 
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