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New websites spamming off of larger web sites

Here is a very interesting link.
http://www.anapsid.org/flukers.html

Note FFI = Fluker Farms International

If you look at the link.
The phone numbers and e-mails Ties Fluker farms to An animal exporter. And it ties them to Reptillian classifieds.com which ties them to a chinese restaurant.


So the reptile market is expanding into chinese buffets?
Hey those words did not come out of me.

All I know is I was asked to investigate........and apperantly I was asked 13 days to late. But it is not my fault. I was asked to investigate after Melissa posted her results.
 
By the way...I will not praise or condemn raising reptiles for food.

After all...there ain't no way some goof ball is gonna tell me to stop eating steak.
I am not gonna let some goof ball say they have to stop farming cows so I do not get my milk and steak.

If we tell people not to raise reptiles for food......what is next? Chickens? steak? I will not let some animal activist tell me what I can and can not eat.







edited to say just wondering if the edit button works
 
I agree with you totally I see no problem with animals that are harvested under proper conditions and dispacted of in humane ways, whether its for hide, feeders, or what ever. The thing I dont agree with speaking of the chinese markets is the way the animals are handled till their dispatched. I have seen some stuff that would make your stomach turn.
 
Chinese Food

Ritchie when your eating steak it would be nice if it was a COW steak instead of maybe an igauna steak (don't want to think about the milk) ... with chinese food you always gotta wonder ... lol
 
Unless my ever increasingly bad memory is failing me once more, Don Soderberg told me that he once had someone (from Japan, I believe) offer him HUGE SUMS of money for a pair of luecistic Texas rats because they intended to breed them and eat the offspring. Something about white animals being considered special in that society or something. I'm a little fuzzy on all the details, but I definitely recall having the conversation with Don. Maybe someone else recalls the points more clearly than do I?

Eating snakes? I have no problem with it other than I know what goes into them, and I'm NOT cool with that thought as my meal is sitting (or is that "coiled"?) on my plate!

;)
 
Yeah, I guess it's been about 5 or 6 years ago that any white snake was being snapped up at all of the shows. The phone might ring several times a day from people looking for them inbetween the shows. At first by orientals, whom didn't care about the sexes or any other info about them, and wanted them as big as possible. Once people wised up and many of us refused to sell to them, they started using non-oriental agents to make their purchases.

There was a lot of argument going on back and forth about whether the animals were actually being eaten or not. I got several confirming emails from people in Asia that this was a fact.

I believe now they are breeding their own stock, as the demand for the white snakes is not anywhere near what it used to be. Because of the obvious drain on availability here, for a period of time, it was nearly impossible to find adults of Blizzard Corns and leucistic Texas rat snakes anywhere.
 
Actually, a friend of mine recently went to Bonaire on her honeymoon. Iguanas are everywhere, and several of the restaurants serve Iguana soup...it's considered a local specialty.

I'd heard of alligator meat and rattlesnake meat being available in several areas......but the iguana soup just made too visual an impression on me......ICK!

Terese
 
Wait a minute... are you all actually applauding Melissa Kaplan for once??

ummm........she was good at getting the info.
but it looks like she might take the "animal rights activist stance"
because for me this really is not an issue. People can eat whatever the h3ll they want. But it looks like she is poised to do the animal rights thing. I hope I am wrong though.
 
I'm conflicted on this..

Would you sell an animal you bred to be a pet to a restaurant just to make more money off of it?

I'm not sure how I'd feel.... although this ties in just as much to if you'd sell to an unaccompanied 8 year old at an expo...
 
Well we are all speculating......but are they breeding them for food or are they breeding for pets? As long as they are treated humanely.....then it is all good with me. To each is own.

People in the phillippines eat cats.

Some people in other parts of the world do not eat cows.
Some people do not eat pigs.


To me....as long as you don't eat other humans.....then it is all good.
JUST DON'T TAKE AWAY MY STEAK or SUSHI !! :D :D
 
Are they safe to eat?

My concern is for the safety issues. Reptile Republic's animals have been reported to have a much higher incidence of nematodes, trematodes and coccidial strains than the average pet trade herp.

If it is animals from the same stock going into the food trade as were offered to the pet trade, are they safe for human consumption?

The idea of eating a herp gives me the willies personally, but I agree that people have a right to eat what they want. My Jewish and Muslim friends don't freak out at me for enjoying pork and so I don't intend to freak out at people who eat snake or lizard. It is that the animals are treated humanely and that the meat is not infested with parasites or tainted by bacteria that is my primary concern.

Herps ain't herd animals, after all. They stress out much more in close proximity to other animals and the rates of illness skyrocket. With cattle as long as the stalls are mucked out frequently, they do just fine in a barn and pasture. I'm not so sure that ranching is as safe when it's herps.

Patti Frawley
 
I can't help but to agree with this point concerning the animals produced by Flukers. I can only imagine what the conditions must be like in a warehouse used to mass produce tens or hundreds of thousands of specimens of dozens of different types of reptiles. (enough of's in that last sentence?) How would any of you feel eating a snake that had IBD?(bearing in mind that the only thing I know about IBD is that it affects snakes and is bad and contagious) I know I wouldn't want to eat lizard meat that came from an animal with Adenovirus.(found in Savs and BDs, hey, who knows what hotdogs are made out of in other countries?)

And to point out some character references, Reptile Republic has the same attitude when it comes to forums as some other censoring people that have been mentioned on the BOI. Many people's posts were deleted or were simply banned for asking questions. I'm guessing that RR went to he!!, and that is why they are poaching other forums again with their new site.
 
Wow.... just think about all the new taste treats???

*Boa on a Stick! (vertically)
*Sandfire Sausages
*Ratsnake Ravioli
*Burm on a Bun (with cheese)
*Monitor Fingers
*"Real" Buffalo Wings
*Leucistic Linguini
*Retic Roast (with gravy)

Man! My mouth is watering just thinking about these!....

IS LUNCH READY, YET!.... lol

....Neil
 
LMAO!!!! You kill me Neil LOL,

As far as the parisites that live within reptiles, why do you think we cook meat? Every time we eat meat were eating plenty of bacteria and other parisites, but properly cooked they dont harm us. Its just perceved differant. If ya dont cook your meat right and get sick from it whats everyone going to think? Everyone will probally just say"well ya know better for next time now". if it happens with reptiles ya know what everyone is going to say "that dude is whacked he eats snakes". Its the same here just differance in perception. I used to eat alot of turtle soup. Dont ever tell my g/f that, she gets pissed over that because she loves her torts. The turtle soup was great my mom used to make the best. its no differant then blue crabs. I grew up in the east coast with them everywhere, I love those things, my favorite food. My g/f growing up in the midwest never seen a blue crab till I came along and shes completly grossed out by them. She says she cant eat something with those little beaty eyes staring at her. Everytime I go home I eat two or 3 dozen, maryland bay area has the BEST seafood in the world!!!!! She hates it because I turned her 10yr old on to them. But itsw all a matter of perception.
 
Well, I guess I'll be boycotting reptilian classifieds too. But it does seem a little strange. What on earth does a China Foods company have with hosting a free classifieds site? Most people posting wouldnt be able to ship to them.
In fact, I didnt get all the spam (just one) that all of you are getting. I wrote a letter of complaint to the company and then decided to post some adds one day to see how it went. Well, I didnt get contacted from the Chinese for lizard meat. But, with this new info, I will do the boycott thing--more because of questions than anything. I would definitely like to know more about the connections and how and who are benefitted. It doesnt make too much sense at this point.

But here is something I'd like to know and I'm hoping Uffern and Eyespy can help. I do remember on KS everyone winning the free Reptile Republic (Flukers) dragons--didnt a lot come down sick? Werent people talking about the "yellow fungus" and "adenovirus"??? It all got deleted. So is this true? Have animals from them actually come down with those very serious issues that could potentially destroy entire collections? Not to mention, put a little plague on the beardie market? If so, does anyone have proof (vet paperwork)?

As for eating reptiles, I dont know. I am sure that I would be pretty upset if I found out someone was eating my babies. But I am a meat eater, so I cannot be too judgemental.

Dana
 
oh, and Jason--I agree 100%...Maryland Crabs rule! (I grew up there and lived off of those things!).
I agree about the parasite thing too. The meat we eat is full of a bunch of yuckies--probably worse than farmed lizards if you take into account all the hormones and stuff we pump them up with. Just cook it real well!
Dana
 
Personally I have no issue with people in other parts of the world eating the "unorthodox" animals. It is as normal for people in Central America to fry up an iguana as it is for people here in the states to fry up a chicken. And in some parts of Asia it's as normal to eat dog as it is for people here to eat pig. I think the problem is that here in the states we come up with names to separate the animals from the foods made from them. Although we know that hamburger(even though HAM is a pig product, never got that one) is made from cows, it is different to go into McDonald's and order a 1/4 pound cow chunk w/cheese than a beef 1/4 pounder w/ cheese.
Also, it is another mode of pushing an American sense of moral superiority over other nations(not trying to be un-American here, just saying how I see it). The whole, "Oh my god, do you know in -insert country here- they eat -insert animal here-? Disgusting!" would change drastically if we could throw away our sense of being better than someone else over our food choices. As has already been shown, farm raised reptiles are no worse for us than farm-raised cattle(maybe even better due to lack of steroids)because no matter what, the bacteria and nasties are pretty much cooked out of any kind of meat, so they are a non-issue. Also, the issue of intelligence and personality is brought up when eating other animals(dogs and cats especially). Cows and chickens have just as much personality in my opinion as most dogs or cats, and pigs are ranked among some of the most intelligent animals on earth, but we can eat them all day long, but snub our noses at the Asian or African family that might eat monkey. We are doing the same thing as they are everywhere else in the world, we just distance ourselves from it, and therefore can sleep better at night knowing that we ate a sacred Hindu cow as opposed to little butt-licking Fluffy chained up in the yard. ;)
Just for the record, I am a vegetarian... okay well I do have my serious weaknesses. Seafood of just about ANY kind(raised on the north FL coast and have to have it) and chicken wings tend to tempt me back over to the dark meat side from time to time. But I have eaten turtle, rattlesnake, and of course plenty of gator.
And if you want to see something funny, and maybe a little disturbing depending on your sensabilities, go to Gatorland in Kissimmee, FL. It is a great crocodilian attraction where you can observe and watch these magnificent creatures and then go to the snack vendor and eat them. lol I have no problem with that(mainly because I eat a bunch of gator nuggetts every time I go), but it is kinda funny.
 
For the most part, the arguement that the bad things are killed when cooked is correct, but I would wager that a decent portion of the time, these creatures are prepared ina way taht does not kill anything except the creature, and as I recall, cooking didn't kill Mad Cow disease.

In any event, I have no problem with someone eating lizard. The person who had the point about typical food animals having as much personality as cats and dogs is correct. My BDs have at least as much personality as my cat.

Patti did a lot more research into the diseased dragons from FF than I did. Hopefully, she will come along here soon and lend her findings. As far as I know, many dragons were imported that had adenovirus (supplied to PetSmarts, as I understand it) and some of the people who won free ones from RR ended up spending lots of money on vet treatment for the severe coccidia that their dragons came in with.
 
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