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New York state law issues

One other thing to point out in the letters sent to governor Pataki
is that you will not vote for him ever. He has national goals as well. He would like someday to run for president. If enough of us protest him signing his job to go national will be much harder.
 
One other thing to point out in the letters sent to governor Pataki
is that you will not vote for him ever. He has national goals as well. He would like someday to run for president. If enough of us protest him signing his job to go national will be much harder.
How do you know this? does he have a web site somewhere with mention of this or online interveiws? Im just asking because Ill blast those interveiws as well only thing is if you menton voting do it in a polite way dont threaten him. Threatening him is only bound to piss him off and make him want to get rid of us. The only thing to keep in mind is that the lobbyist groups and voter bases HSUS and peta have are larger then us and he probally knows that. Itsa ashame all the animal groups dont work togther, birds of prey, reptiles, big cats etc. If all the "exotic groups" got togther that would be power!
 
NY Ban

NYS and out of state residents please follow the link on Bruce's post to contact Govenor Pataki.
If NY falls, your state will be next! EVERYONE should take this seriously. Sitting at your computer nodding your head will not help this time. You must act now! Bills are being written by legislators that don't know a thing about reptiles or the reptile industry. They claim to "protect the public" which sounds good to other politicians, so bills pass and become law. Reptile owners and the pet industry has worked very hard at changing peoples ideas of reptiles. If the bill passes, we will lose what we have worked so hard for. Please present your ideas in an educated manner or we will all sound like the guy with a tiger in the closet.

All you have to lose is your freedom!

- Ron Schuster
 
POsted by Rl Reptiles, article from a local paper

Exotic animal ban could silence call of the wild
Albany -- Owners outraged by proposal to curb ownership of pets

By ELIZABETH BENJAMIN, Capitol bureau
First published: Monday, July 5, 2004

Fur is flying over a ban on ownership and breeding of "wild" animals now awaiting Gov. George Pataki's signature.
The measure, passed by the Legislature in June, would also require current owners of such animals to apply to the state Department of Environmental Conservation for a permit to keep their pets at an annual cost of up to $80 per animal.

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The issue has pitted the keepers of unusual pets against animal rights advocates. Both sides maintain they are acting in the best interest of both the public and the animals -- some of which are rare or even endangered.

Supporters of the ban say it is needed due to the increased popularity of wild, or so-called "exotic," pets that can be easily acquired from dealers or over the Internet.

The animals were not meant to be confined and require more care than most people can give, ban backers say. In addition, these animals can transmit diseases and could seriously harm their owners, bystanders or emergency workers.

"Certain types of exotic animals aren't fit to keep as pets," said Stacy Wolf, director of legislative services for the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.

Exotic pet owners say they are responsible caretakers who are being unfairly penalized for a few people who mistreat their charges. They call the $80 fee onerous and threaten to sue if the ban becomes law.

"New York does not have an exotic animal problem, we have a human stupidity problem," said Deborah-Ann Milette, who keeps four large cats -- three servals (long-legged African wildcats) and one caracal (sort of a lanky lynx) in her Warrensburg apartment.

"You can't tell me I've got to pay more to register a monkey that weighs 6 pounds and don't bother anybody than a bull mastiff that weighs 130 pounds and can tear you apart," said Ron James Sorenson, who keeps nine monkeys in his Bronx home.

The new rules would apply to a veritable Noah's Ark of creatures -- from monkeys, bears and large cats to venomous snakes (which already require a DEC license for private ownership), boa constrictors and pythons, most lizards and all crocodiles.

Those who violate the ban would risk losing their animals and a fine of up to $500 for the first offense and $1,000 for subsequent offenses. Licensed zoos, veterinarians, wildlife rehabilitators and researchers would be exempt.

More than a dozen states ban private possession of wild animals. At least seven have partial bans. Others require permits or licenses for many of the species in New York's legislation. New York City already has a ban stricter than the state proposal.

In Albany, the exotic pet ban bill has been pending since 2001. A campaign by supporters and a string of high profile media reports of animal attacks, such as a man who was badly bitten last fall by his pet tiger in his Harlem apartment, helped spur lawmakers to act.

Assemblyman Paul Tonko, D-Amsterdam, the bill's sponsor, said lawmakers sought "a balanced" approach.

"What we tried to do was address public safety and, at the same time, be reasonable," Tonko said.

The original bill was modified, partly because of heavy lobbying by the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council, which hired powerful Albany lobbying firm Hinman Straub to represent its interests. The council paid Hinman Straub about $57,000 over the last year to lobby on this and other animal-related issues.

The ban's sponsors compromised, leaving out iguanas, among the most popular exotic animals sold as pets, and birds, which are equally popular -- even among state lawmakers.

Supporters of the ban admit it will be hard to enforce. The DEC has neither the staff nor the resources for a full-scale animal census, so it will have to rely mainly on voluntary compliance or complaints.

The state hasn't had much luck enforcing an existing registration law that took effect last April. The law requires exotic animal owners to register with their local municipal clerk or risk a fine. The clerks must send the information to police and emergency services workers.

Several local clerks contacted last week had no knowledge of the registration law and no exotic animals on file. A spokesman for the state Department of State, which was supposed to develop a list of exotic animals targeted for registration for the clerks, said it is just being completed and has not yet been sent out.

If the ban becomes law, Milette said she worries exotic animal owners will "go underground" and stop seeking care for their pets. She also fears an increase in euthanized animals taken from owners who disobey the rules.

The ban could cause more exotic animals to be killed, Wolf conceded. But the ban, she hopes, will ultimately discourage people from getting pets they can't care for, preventing animal cruelty.

Milette maintains her cats, which are all declawed, are no more dangerous than dogs, which bite more than 4.7 million people a year, according to the American Veterinary Medical Association. Approximately 800,000 people seek medical treatment for dog bites a year, the association said.

There are far fewer reported exotic animal bites, Milette pointed out, although that may reflect the fact that fewer of them are kept as pets. But they do happen.

In 2000, a Troy child was mauled by a serval cat. That same year, a Queensbury educator had 90 snakes and other reptiles seized from his house because of poor care. In 1997, a pet monkey went ballistic in a Central Avenue pet store and did considerable damage.

Sue Arnold, an exotic animal breeder in Florida who sells cats like Milette's for $1,800 to $2,000 apiece, said these pets require considerably more care than an average cat or dog.

"It takes a person who is willing to raise another child," Arnold said.

Arnold opposes an all-out ban on exotic animals, but favors a permit system like Florida's, which requires would-be owners to attend training classes on handling the species they want to acquire.

Like many exotic animal owners, Milette is unquestionably dedicated to her cats: Qe Tesha of the Nile (the caracal) and Cleopatra, Noah and Motuka of Africa (the servals). On permanent disability, she stays home with them all day long and never leaves them alone or allows them outside unsupervised.

Milette, who says her primary residence is in Rhode Island, said she will leave New York rather than seek a permit if the law takes effect. She already lost one pet to such a ban.

Milette was fined in Massachusetts for keeping a serval named without a permit. She later had to surrender her cat to authorities after refusing to apply for a permit. In 2000, she was cited in New York for allowing a "dangerous animal" to stray too close to a public space -- the sidewalk -- while it was leashed.

Milette has a U.S. Department of Agriculture license to exhibit her cats, which she does by offering free educational programs. She says federal inspectors come annually to her home to make sure it's suitable for her pets, and says a state ban would be an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy.

"I'm already regulated," she said. "This law is redundant and we don't need it."
 
Hi, I would like to thank all of you from other states for your support. I breed Ball Pythons and Boas. If this law is passed I will have to go bankrupt or leave the state. The latter would be very difficult at this time but I love my animals and am looking into it.
Thanks, Rob
 
Rob

Keep you head up man, and whatever you do DONT DUMP your collection.

A few years back my state made boas illegal, but within a 18 month period of time (during which no homes were raided of private collectors) they changed the law and boas are now legal again.

I unfortunately feared my house would be raided (was fighting with a guy who was hounded by the city and was ratting out people) soo I sold my whole collection. I COULDNT REGRET ANYTHING MORE IN MY LIFE. Its great to hear from people that the snakes are doing great, but heartbreaking to hear when they produced (and to think this would have been my year).

So whatever you do DONT SELL OUT. Keep you stuff quitely if you must, and should you produce you could always sell wholesale out of state.

Good luck with the fight to everyone, I did my small part.
 
Thanks Mickey, I'm trying to keep my head up. We produced our first Albino Balls last year and we will not give them up. We will thin it out a little. I've been hoarding 50 Poss Het Caramels that we have produced and we will sell some of them in the near future. I think. LOL. We will not dump the collection we've worked to hard and invested too much money to do that.
I will take your advice.
Thanks Again, Rob
:)
 
Even if the bill passes, who will get rid of their snakes? NO ONE...I sure as hell wouldn't and I bet everyone here would do the same. Im from Florida but I wrote Gov. Pataki to let him know this is totally unreasonable. Fight for your rights and dont give ANYTHING up!!
 
Vince LOL

Vince, Let me guess you own garter snakes and frogs.
Some of us like snakes that grow larger than 6 foot. 6 foot would be way to small vince, please add something construtive to this thread.


- The original version of this legislation banned only the 4 largest pythons species and anacondas. There were some last minute revisions before passage, and this section was, according to a staffer at the sponsoring legislators office, left out by accident....

Thats is a bunch of who-we..................
 
NY Reptile Ban

Joe,

I hope many people from out of state e-mail the govenor like yourself.

One of the many points I made to the govenor in my letter to him mentioned that NY would lose sales tax revenue as a result of the ban. A politician may not understand our needs and desires to maintain reptiles, but I guarantee they know economic losses. Another point that hits politicians is that I vote and I encourage many others to do so as well!

Besides, Florida may have their own legal tricks "up their sleaves". The alien species problem has been heard here in NY and heard loudly! The latest being the Nile Monitor "problem". It already has scared "women and children" and costing tax payers money to research and capture them. And it is a matter of time that some biologist will determine they are eating the eggs of some endangered species or passing a zoonotic disease. Then, who will they blame? Anyone that keeps reptiles because we are seen as "bad guys" to them and the zoological communtiy.

Keep up the educating! It's contageous! (Can you tell I'm a teacher?)

-Ron
 
NY Reptile Ban Update

I wanted to bring everyone up to date on what is happening with this legislation. From what I am hearing out of Albany, Governor Pataki is planning on signing the exotics bill, BUT will only do so if an amendment is passed that restricts the boidae bann to just anacondas, retics, burms, and African rock pythons. This amendment has been introduced, and can be seen here: http://www.assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A11753&sh=t

I want to thank everyone who has contacted Governor Patakis' office about this legislation! I'm sure that if it had not been for pressure on the part of the herp community, we would have been stuck with the original ban on the ENTIRE family Boidae!!

Bruce Lowder
NY Metro Reptile Expo
 
I also want to thank everyone who contacted the Governor. In my letter to him, I specifically pointed out how ludicrous it was to ban an entire family (Boidae) of reptiles, some of which are totally non-threatening. I also pointed out that the entire bill smacked of political "grandstanding". Let's hope that the message was received loud and clear!
 
The amended bill, while easier to take, still is not really acceptable as I see it unless permits to keep these animals are easily obtainable by intermediate to experienced hobbyists. My guess is that permits will not be available at all for the hobbyist as the bill leaves the permit issue up to the Dept. of Environmental Conservation (if I read it correctly). That is a shame, and it is also a shame that people are willing to accept such as inevitable. The worst part of it all is that groups such as PETA and the Humane Society of the United States may use passage of this bill as a stepping stone to enact future restrictive legislation - a foot in the door sort of a thing. I believe that people should continue writing to their legislators and to the governor to voice their dissatisfaction with this bill even in its amended format at least in the hopes of assuring that the permit system will be fair and equitable t the hobbyist.

I would also like to thank the many people (my guess is in the hundreds) who signed the petition, opposing the bill, presented by the Long Island Herpetological Society at the NY Metro Reptile Show.

Best regards,
Glenn B
 
But cant you agree that the bill has a base? if these type of animals are causeing harm to people should they be aloud to be kept as pets, or be ban pending qualification for a permit? or registration such as needed for a dog or cat?
 
Ni I cannot agree that the bill has a fair basis. This bill was pushed by animal rights extremists. These animals do not as you imply routinely cause harm to people. If I live in most areas of NY state, I do not require a permit (not talking licenses here but permits) for a horse. Nor do I require a permit for a dog, a cat, or a chicken. Yet all of these animals cause many more injuries, either directly or indirectly, to humans each year than do pet reptiles or amphibians - and even more so proportionately than do boids. There are plenty of things that harm people that do not require a permit. These are, among many other things, knives, stairs, hot coffee, trees, computer keyboards, and other people (could you imagine needing a permit to procreate - will that be next). That is just naming a few things - none of which requires a permit. The type of permit system of which you apparently write, is one in which someone would not be allowed to keep an animal until they have proven themself learned enough to keep it. That is not the way at all with cats and dogs - not at all. You go to the pet shop, buy the dog or cat, and then apply for and get a license. There is no educational requirement or anything like that. So no I do not think the bill has a base, except a base of, in my opinion: ill informed politicians looking for the votes of a bunch of kooks.

When the provisions of any such bill are first discussed with the people who actually keep the animals in question, including discussions with herpetologists (amateur and professional), zookeepers, herpetological societies, the pet trade - as opposed to the great majority of input coming from ill informed animal rights extremists, and from sensational news reports - then I more likely will believe that such a bill has a legitimate basis.

Best regards,
Glenn Bartley;)
 
Updated on Letter to Senator Kuhl

Just thought I would let you know I received a letter back from Senator Kuhl thanking me for my concern, he has asked me to review the law and send him my thoughts on it, and forward a copy to Governor pataki as soon as possible, I will put his letter to me on here asap. I will let you know, I have Dr. Mark Wilson, as well as some other industry people working on this with me. If anyone would like to help, Email me.
Tom Snyder
 
Only 5 species of snakes are being banned, below is how the clause reads,below that us the link the the article. Sadly enough there holding each and everyone of us resonsible for the actions of a couple people. On the other side of the token this this would not have changed had everyone not done their part by writing and calling etc.


(5) All reptiles that are venomous by nature, pursuant to department
20 regulation, and the following species and families: {Boidae family}
21 BURMESE PYTHON (PYTHON M. BIVITTATUS), RETICULATED PYTHON (PYTHON RETI-
22 CULATUS), AFRICAN ROCK PYTHON (PYTHON SABAE), GREEN ANACONDA (EUNECTES
23 MAURINUS), YELLOW ANACONDA (EUNECTES NOTAEUS) , AUSTRALIAN AMETHYSTINE
24 PYTHON (MORELIA AMETHISTINA KINHORNI), INDIAN PYTHON (PYTHON MOLURUS),

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A11753&sh=t
 
reptile ban ny not too late !

just to let everyone know i called nys to check on the status of this bill its has passed back in june and is being sent to governor patakis office !!! its not too late to let them know u oppse this bill !u can call 518-474-8390 or email them www.state.ny.us
why not post this at your local pet shops reptile shows webpages or wherever ?
 
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