newbie with several questions

[ricodelfuego]

Hi all,

I have stalked these forums for a while, gathering info, and we just procured 2 new leopard geckos – a 35g male and a 37g female. They are housed together in a 20gal (30wx12dx18t) aquarium with a screen top. We have a UTH that covers 8” of 1 side (~27% of the tank). The temp at that end seems to run about 90 give or take. Our room temp is usually around 70-75. The floor is covered with newspaper, and we have a moist hide box made out of a plastic shoebox spraypainted black with a 2” hole cut into the lid and filled 2” deep with moist peat moss. One end of the hide box rests on the edge of the UTH zone. We keep a small container of calcium powder, fresh water, and a dish that we keep supplied with 4 mealworms shaken in a 2:1 mix of calcium powder and multivitamin powder. The mealworms are being kept in a plastic shoebox filled with oatmeal and some vegetables.

Our male, Zeus, kind of harassed (nipped etc) our female, Hera, for the first day, and now she has retreated to the hide box almost 24/7 as far as we can tell. I took the lid off the box to encourage her to come out – she did, but only for a while. I put the lid back on. There has been a steady flow of mealworms consumed (although we’ve never witnessed it), and we are guessing that they have all been eaten by Zeus (there is gecko poop by his hangout over the UTH). This Friday will be 1 week since we got them. The pet store (Prehistoric Pets in Orange County) said that she may stay in the hide box for up to a week before coming out to eat. My wife thinks that she has gotten darker (she is a patternless) since we got her, and is concerned that she is not eating or spending time on the “hot zone” like Zeus does all the time.

Any advice in general (or are there any archived threads that address these questions?)

Any advice regarding our female’s situation?

Should we add 50w red bulb for extra heat (as suggested by Prehistoric Pets)?

How often should I change the peat moss?

Will the hide box filled with moist peat moss and a hole cut in the top also function as an egg-laying chamber should she ever lay eggs?

We wash our hands pretty well after handling them, but what’s the deal with salmonella and reptiles?

How delicate are their tails? We have been a little skittish about touching them or picking them up for fear of breaking their tail… is it easy to do?

Anyway - thanks in advance!

Rich

 

[greg4000]

i am not very experienced with geckos, but it seems to me that the male is displaying dominance and not allowing the female to eat. until they are ready to breed i would consider housing them seperately. normally females together are ok, but the male should be kept in a different enclosure. just my opinion, i may be off as i said i am not very familiar with geckos.

 

[Sedna]

until they are ready to breed i would consider housing them seperately. normally females together are ok, but the male should be kept in a different enclosure. just my opinion, i may be off as i said i am not very familiar with geckos.

I Definetly agree that males should not be put with females unless breeding or they are newborns of course. Heck Even some Females should or can't be kept together some fo the time.

 

[LadyGecko]

They are too young to allow to breed at that age/weight
I would definitely set up another Viv and separate them asap
It may be a dominance issue or the male nay be ready to breed with her
The dark color is an indication that she is not happy and is stressed
Do you have a digital thermometer to get an accurate temp?
You can pic up one for home use almost anywhere for under 10 bucks and they sell more expensive ones on line and at pet stores or you can get a temp gun
If you have a digital thermometer are you putting the probe on the floor of the Viv where the uth is to get the hottest temp?
90 to 92 is good for leos in the hot spot so unless the room that they are in gets really cold you should be OK without a red bulb but they are nice to have for night viewing when your leos will be up and about
I use a 25 watt party bulb when i use a red bulb-i think they are about 3 bucks and can be bought almost anywhere light bulbs are sold
If you want a higher wattage then you will have to go into a higher priced reptile bulb
Tails are not usually dropped with just handling them but of course never grab them by the tail
Some Leos are more skittish than others and some never really liked to be handled at all
i have some that do the croc death roll in my hand every time that i pick them up
As for Salmonella- i have been keeping herps for about 10 years and I have never had a problem with it
I honestly believe that you can get salmonella easier from handling raw poultry than from reptiles
I use coconut fiber(bed -a beast) for my moist hides
it seems to stay moist longer but i have read of lots of people using peat
Yes-the moist hide will serve as an eye laying box for your female when it is time for her to lay eggs
Was that a typo or are you really only putting 4 meal worms at a time in their bowl?
I think 40 would be more like it
don't forget to sprinkle your bugs with a calcium supplement
and use a multivitamin once per week
Also gut load your insect feeders before giving them to your leos so that they have some nutrition in them
I would advise you to separate that female from the male before she ends up gravid at way too young an age
I know it means buying double what you have already bought but i can't believe that the pet store told you that it would be fine to keep them together-well after dealing with many pet shops for years -maybe I can believe it-LOL
Good Luck with them and post some pics when you can
Sandy

 

[Sauradon]

90 Degrees is a good temperature for the leos. Do they have more then one hide? I would seperate the male and female. Also, geckos of that size usually eat about quite a few mealworms at a time, I would put at least 20 in there every night and see how many they eat, Chris.

 

[ByRandom]

I have stalked these forums for a while, gathering info, and we just procured 2 new leopard geckos – a 35g male and a 37g female. They are housed together in a 20gal (30wx12dx18t) aquarium with a screen top.

They should not be kept together unless you want to breed them. If you do want to breed them, the female should be at least 50-55 grams.

We have a UTH that covers 8” of 1 side (~27% of the tank). The temp at that end seems to run about 90 give or take. Our room temp is usually around 70-75. The floor is covered with newspaper, and we have a moist hide box made out of a plastic shoebox spraypainted black with a 2” hole cut into the lid and filled 2” deep with moist peat moss. One end of the hide box rests on the edge of the UTH zone.

I keep my humid hides 100% on the warm side. Be sure that all the fumes from the spraypaint are thoroughly dispersed. The temperature should be steadily around 90-92 degrees. I wouldn't advocate temperatures any lower than 90 degrees.

We keep a small container of calcium powder, fresh water, and a dish that we keep supplied with 4 mealworms shaken in a 2:1 mix of calcium powder and multivitamin powder. The mealworms are being kept in a plastic shoebox filled with oatmeal and some vegetables.

Free-feed the mealworms. Put enough in to cover the bottom of the container. Four mealworms is definately not enough for these little guys. My adults eat anywhere between 4-6 (on rare occasion 8 with my biggest male) SUPER worms. I feed my hatchling/juveniles around 10-12 mealworms daily.

Our male, Zeus, kind of harassed (nipped etc) our female, Hera, for the first day, and now she has retreated to the hide box almost 24/7 as far as we can tell. I took the lid off the box to encourage her to come out – she did, but only for a while. I put the lid back on. There has been a steady flow of mealworms consumed (although we’ve never witnessed it), and we are guessing that they have all been eaten by Zeus (there is gecko poop by his hangout over the UTH). This Friday will be 1 week since we got them. The pet store (Prehistoric Pets in Orange County) said that she may stay in the hide box for up to a week before coming out to eat. My wife thinks that she has gotten darker (she is a patternless) since we got her, and is concerned that she is not eating or spending time on the “hot zone” like Zeus does all the time.

She is hiding all the time away from the male because he has exerted his dominance. He is the "alpha male". This also sounds like mating behavior to me. If the female does become gravid at this age she may become egg bound which would require veterinary care or she may die. Also, if she does pass the eggs, she will be severely malnourished due to the lack of vitamins and calcium. Females use all of their reserved nutrients to form the eggs.

Any advice regarding our female’s situation?

Remove her from the male. Do not reintroduce them together for atleast 6-8 months.

Should we add 50w red bulb for extra heat (as suggested by Prehistoric Pets)?

Unless your house gets cold at night (below 60), I wouldn't think it would be needed.

How often should I change the peat moss?

I would at least change it once every other month, in the least. If they deficate in the box, remove the moss and replace it with fresh.

Will the hide box filled with moist peat moss and a hole cut in the top also function as an egg-laying chamber should she ever lay eggs?

Yes as long as there aren't any large sticks and such which could compromise the egg(s). Don't think so much about breeding at the moment. Focus on caring for these animals and loving them as a species, rather than trying to produce as many as you can.

We wash our hands pretty well after handling them, but what’s the deal with salmonella and reptiles?

As long as you wash your hands with antibacterial soap, then I wouldn't worry at all about salmonella.

How delicate are their tails? We have been a little skittish about touching them or picking them up for fear of breaking their tail… is it easy to do?

Be gentle with their tails. Do not squeeze them at all just exert enough pressure to keep them from falling. I pick most of my animals up by their tails to make sure that they don't mistake my fingers for super-sized-super-worms, lol.

 

[surfrkidts]

Hey Rich, if I could just make a few suggestions,

The viv set up sounds great except for maybe a few more hides. In such a big tank its possible they could feel a little vulnerable. Also, i've always been a very large supporter of housing leos individually. I learned my lesson. My first two leos were kept in a 20 gal, the male was very, er, excited, and ended up beating the female up quite a bit. Your patternless darkening is (as others said) a sign of stress and discomfort.

Secondly, I'd put in a few more mealworms. A bowl full of mealworms catches a leos attention better than just a few in my experience. Not all mealworms have to be dusted. For the wide array of opinions on dusting methods, just do a quick search.

I don't beleive leos should need any lighting as long as the UTH is doing its job, but if you want a fancier display, there is nothing wrong with the light as long as you make sure the light and the UTH together aren't roasting the little guys. We don't live to far away from eachother, and i'll just tell you that personally, i do not always get along with prehistoric pets

The peat moss in your hide is good for moisture, however i suggest another hide that is not as humid. As far as changing the moss, anytime it is defecated on it should be changed, and also if it begins to smell or develope other undersireable traits.

The female should not be allowed to breed until she is the proper age and breeding size. With them together, breeding could occur before she is mature enough to handle the stress. It is very possible that at the size she is now, complications could occur if she were to become gravid. Although the hide you are speaking of could be used as a laying box later on, I don't suggest that eggs be allowed until sexual maturity is reached. A quick search on breeding age/size should give you about a hundred different opinions on the matter I myself shoot for higher weights around 60g before breeding.

Salmonella is pretty much an excuse "non-reptile" people use to hate them more. In the years i've had herps, i've never once gotten it, or heard of anyone getting it. Uncooked eggs and chicken are much riskier statistically. Wash you hands, you'll live

Tail dropping is common in younger leos when they are overly stressed. Leos are not really that delicate, but mainly just use caution. The main things are: don't grab their tail, don't squeeze them if they try to get away, and don't do things like turning them over, teaching them to do flips, or put them on a leash.

If you have any more questions I'd be happy to answer, and best of luck on your new collection!

 

[ricodelfuego]

Thanks for the advice - they are separated into 2 10 gal tanks now. They each have 2 hides (one on the hot side, 1 on the cool side) a humid hide. I hope that our female is not gravid yet - we were under the impression from the "Leopard Gecko Manual" that they were sexually mature at 35g. What should I watch out for with our female?

Thanks again!

Rich
-----
The Nogs - Purveyors of fine Donkey Rock since 1997 (www.nogturnal.com)

 

[surfrkidts]

I would watch the females weight, color and eating habits. Hopefully in time she will start eating again. If she loses too much weight then its possible you may have to mix up some G3 slurry to help her out. Also watch her belly and look for oblong white shapes that could be eggs. hopefully she didn't get gravid, but just watch her for developing eggs.