Follow Up-What we know to be true.
First off, please excuse my style in submitting these comments. I;m not very savy on Fauna's procedures on how to highlight quotes or mirror images. We never had the time to mess with this, so I do apologize to you all if I get the format wrong.
Most recently, we were informed by a person Rich & I consider a breeder friend, on our name being brought into issue's with Nicole Norton AKA "Howlin Gale Dragons" once again. We are choosing to post as we think it is very serious to know genetic lines and where they have desended from.
The following ae the conversations that took place regarding this issue.
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From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Sent: 5/5/2010 2:58:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
Subj: Double het male
Afternoon i had a quick question about 8 months ago i bought a male yellow double het from HG Dragons (Nichole) And from what she tells me she got it from you. Now i breed him and did no get any hypo's now i just wanted to make sure this was true and in fact he came from you thanks
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Thanks Paul Wilson
Www.Maryland-Dragons.com
A Local Breeder & Rescue
My Response to Paul:
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From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Sent: 5/5/2010 7:00:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
Subj: Re: Double het male
Hi Paul,
Trying to think back and I don't remember selling her a double het, but just incase, was it dble het just for hypo? Also would you happen to have a picture of him? In the past Nicole had bought a few of our lines like Amaya (daughter of Cloe x George), Vale (daughter of Jill x George), Lily (daughter of Albee x Neon), but I think any of the others she sold off, which were irreplaceable dragons, but that was her choice.
Any additional info would be helpful & if it was one of our dragons, she should of sent the cert of genetics along with the dragon, as that's what we asked for, so people wouldn't end up inbreeding.
Any other info maybe helpful. Hope she's not using us for her escape goat, doubt it, but you never know. Our name has been brought into issue's we know nothing about lately, but that's another long story.
Rhea
Rhea & Rich Englund
Pauls response:
In a message dated 5/6/2010 10:55:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
Well on my site on the breeders page his name is drago. Now He was breed to a leather het hypo, it was an accident but if my calculations where correct het to het i should get 25% hypo. She laid 24 eggs and only 20 hatched I got 11 leathers and 9 normals witch none where hypo. I did not get any type of cert with him. Thanks for getting back with me so quickly
My Response:
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From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Sent: 5/13/2010 9:24:52 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time
Subj: Fwd: hey
Hey Paul, I received the e-mail below from Nicole Norton this morning. She bought this dragon from a pet store we used to supply dragons to sometimes. Below is my reply to her, as now I remember going threw this once before. The store also deals with another breeder as well, & this male looks NOTHING like any of the Het hypo trans we got from this line in the first place. He also had some Leucistic cross at that time as well. Anyway's sorry I can't be of more help, & I will sit here and be scrutinized by Nicole for the next decade. LOL, but true.
Rhea
"He asked me and I told him the truth. This dragon is from ET's other breeder, not from us. I never had babies at that time he was produced. I told ET this repeatedly! The only Belgium hypo trans line I gave to them, and when I wanted the opportunity to purchase her back, he sold her from underneath me, so I have no idea what you are otherwise talking about. Sorry. I also have quite a few JUMBO hornworms if you can feed them out right away. I need to keep most the cups of chow for worms I have coming, but I hate to just toss all those hornworms. There has to be at least 20-30 of them.
Let me know, as I've had them in the frig for a few days now."
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From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]
Sent: 5/11/2010 10:06:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
Subj: hey
Why would you tell Paul that male is not a Double Het from you? You know he is you sold him as a baby to ET he was from your Hypo Belgium Translucent's that is what you told them. I highly doubt ET would lie to me
This next quote from Nicole really hit home, and as I would hope most of you who know us, would know that we always sent dragons genetic certs with dragons we produced. If it wasn't produced by us, at times we may have included a cert stating who the origional breeder was so if our customers had questions they could inquire.
Also please note the female Hypo Trans we GAVE as a gift to this pet store was a her/female, not a male.
Below are the genetics of the Belgium hypo trans line that we bred:
The hypo trans lines we produced was a male "Eddie" which was a hypo trans we purchased right from Justin x a female Belgium hypo het trans, we purchased from Rob & Vicky. She was proven to carry the hypo trait with our 3 clutches we produced. This male dragon, "Drago" first off is obviously not trans and looks NOTHING like any of the other adults we've seen from this match up. I know I have pics, just have to go back into the achieves to find them. LOL. But if absolutely needed, I will do so for you all.
THIS IS THE ONLY BELGIUM LINE WE PRODUCED.
Origionally posted by Nicole Norton:
7. Drago is NOT from a Pet Store or whatever crud Dragonz Whispers is coming up with to try to stay out of it he came from my friend who got him from Dragonz Whispers I have NEVER bought a dragon from the pet store and never will.
Now I see that she is denying every dealing with a pet store AT ALL. I don't know why she wouldn't just fess up and be honest about things.
She does need to learn to compromise and not be so defensive on issues, as I've been there my self with her, but all in all, she does have some outstanding lines, not just from us, but from other reputable breeders last time I checked. I don't know Ed but have seen maybe one or 2 of his dragons he sent to Nicole, although small in size, they were very nice looking hypo trans lines. I'm sure she has also had issues with receiving dragons with pinworm or whatever else she had to treat and I do know she takes her dragons to a local vet, but IDK if the vet she gets advise from online is up to par. She does take in rescues, but I do not agree with breeding them after recovery as this can effect the babies in the long run. I thought her heart was in the right place, but she would never say she sold a sick or bad dragon, even by mistake. Any good breeder would acknowledge that this could of happened and would deal with it accordingly. These are living animals, & a breeders responsibility to their customers doesn't stop once they receive their animal. Once more breeders out there realize this, reptiles will be taken more seriously in the over all market. Lately I've seen some pretty outstanding breeders out there, which makes me very happy to see such dedication to what they produce, but also makes me cringe to start to breed again. LOL, but true.
Please Note:
WE HAVE NO AFFILIATION WITH NICOLE NORTON ON A BUSINESS OR PERSONAL LEVEL! She seems to think just because she bought some dragons from us, she can put us down on her web site as an "associated breeder", and that to me is not true.
Everyone has always been so nice to us, and we would never intentionally let you down! Love to you all, and to everyone who has helped us presently, and in the past, you know who you are, thank-you from the bottom of my heart. I wish you nothing but the best!
God Bless,
Rhea Englund
