Bad Guy Nicole Norton Howling Gale dragons

[shlages]

so you should dedocate years of going to shows & being a breeder groupie before you buy an animal???Sorry we ALL don't have 40 years of breeding or experience.

 

[mgl08]

Well, I can confirm that there was a voicemail, with a profanity filled message & the threat to slit her throat. Unfortunately, the message didn't have a date/time stamp that could be correlated with the missed call history to confirm the caller's identity.
Unlike some others, though, I have no problem believing that the OP left the message.
Not saying he did...just that I find the idea quite believable.

I have a problem with this post how are you going to contradict yourself in the same sentence. 1. I have never spoken to you or Ed over the phone in my life. Only by emails. I feel as though you want to come down on me b/c I state in previous post that Cole09 was created a day before the bann occurred. I asked you to clear it up on the post you stated it was off topic and asked me not to post your emails but here's Ed Clark bringing it up again.
HHmoore you may be the moderator and have a little power but right is right wrong is wrong. After the statement you made above that I quoted you emailed me at 1 am asking for my phone number so you can call me???? What it sound to me like you already have you mind made up to what you want to believe. In my opinion you would be basis. You always state keep something private as far as I am concerned I have nothing to hide so anything you want to ask me then you can ask me on a thread. These two have tired to come up with different ways to attack me for twelve days and have been getting caught in lies left any right. Let me show you one more lie just for the record. Oh and by the way I understand you can't come up with any good evidence so let just try to get rid of him. I hope both of you sleep well at night knowing that your lying on someones character. Any who here's one more lie.

 

[mgl08]

Your funny, you were banned from paypal for those threats.

View attachment 115667

 

[dragonluver83]

What will happen when the BOI shuts down? For one thing, this crap will not go on for days. The dragon world is not that big a place. If you want to know if someone is reputable, ask your other dragons friends. I have not been in dragons that long, but already know who I would deal with and who I will not. I don't need BOI. If you want to know who has good dragons, look at what they post and what they are selling. Granted, there are a lot of people fronting for other breeders, and you know who you are. Knowledgable dragon people can tell a dragons blood line by looking at it. Seems pretty simple. I visited shows and talked to all the west coast breeders for 4 years before I purchased my first dragon. Make your decision on how professional a breeder is and the quality of their stock. If you don't feel it is right, don't buy. Learn as much as you can, read all the books, and when you talk to breeders, listen to what they tell you. If people listened more than they talked, a lot of these problems could be avoided. Want to find out all you need to know about a breeder, read their care sheet. For those of you reading all this garbage, if you don't have dragon friends, make some. In spite of reading all this, there are a lot of really decent, knowledgable people out there. Get to know them. I have been breeding for over 40 years now and can tell very quickly who knows what they are doing, and I let their dragons speak for themselves. As for all the posts in this thread, they speak volums about the people who posted them.

Just some thoughts from a nobody in dragons.

The dragon world isnt a big world but it can be when your new and looking for a animal. Face it most people dont do there research on who they are buying from. Some times they just buy, and realize they didnt get the deal they thought they were getting. Or they got screwed.
I think you should look for some kind of guarantee. Its something that says, i am selling you a quality animal and i will back what i am saying up with a guarantee. and live arrival only is A JOKE!!! Your paying retail price and your not getting some kind of reassurance. No thanks. It's like driving in the city with snow on the ground and no car ins. Asking for trouble.
Who knows whats gonna happen at this point with the b.o.i.. Its going to be Rich's call. and its gonna be soon. I mean ppl that are reading and posting on here that are not a contributing members need to get the hint*. How many scammers has the b.o.i. pointed for everyone to see? How much money has been saved because of the b.o.i.? more than 25 bucks? So the viewing non members may want to think about that. where's your 25 dollars gonna be when you get scammed for 2 300 bucks??? Where are you going to sing the blues at??? Not here!!!

 

[Moonstone]

so you should dedocate years of going to shows & being a breeder groupie before you buy an animal???Sorry we ALL don't have 40 years of breeding or experience.

If going to shows, and talking to breeders and seeing what they are consistently producing over a period of time makes you a groupie, then I guess I am one. If you are going to go on line, buy a dragon from a pic, knowing nothing about the breeder, the line, and the dragons, you get what you deserve. BOI will not give you the information you need. What do you know about these breeders after 25 pages of finger pointing and back biting?

 

[dragonluver83]

your answer

If going to shows, and talking to breeders and seeing what they are consistently producing over a period of time makes you a groupie, then I guess I am one. If you are going to go on line, buy a dragon from a pic, knowing nothing about the breeder, the line, and the dragons, you get what you deserve. BOI will not give you the information you need. What do you know about these breeders after 25 pages of finger pointing and back biting?

After reading pages of finger pointing you kinda get the idea of who is full of it and who isnt. re read this thread. You'll get my point. but not just this thread i believe there are other threads on the b.o.i. about crappy buss from nicole or her lying over and over.(using her as an example at this point) the b.o.i. shows a consistent track record and there repeated actions. Why do you think jobs want to look at your criminal record. so they know who there working with. The b.o.i. gives you back ground history on the breeder. Even with a "bad guy" post. still doesnt mean to much until you read the post and get your own opinion.

 

[Moonstone]

"The dragon world isnt a big world but it can be when your new and looking for a animal. Face it most people dont do there research on who they are buying from. Some times they just buy, and realize they didnt get the deal they thought they were getting. Or they got screwed."

My advice was, that if you don't have dragon friends, then make some. Good, respectable breeders who are really knowledgable are usually very willing to steer people in the right direction. I get a lot of e mails and I do recommend people to newbies. For those people who "just buy" and get screwed, BOI will not help them. What BOI does do is gives bad buyers a chance to slam reputable breeders and sellers, and gives the people who buy without doing their homework the chance to do it. I am in no way refering to the breeder and buyer in this drawn out miserable bitch session. I have made my decision about the two, and everyone reading has the chance and right to do the same.

 

[Omnomnami]

Justin, I understand that you're frustrated but honestly, the BOI is one of the best things to happen to the reptile industry.

You may not have been helped out with your matter but several other people HAVE BEEN HELPED! And some have been helped significantly! It's not like money was illegally "stollen" from you.

Scamming and fraud happens nearly every day in the reptile industry and the BOI is very helpful when it comes to those issues.

The fact is, you're not being helped because there isn't enough evidence. I really hope things will be resolved for you because, again, a mans reputation isn't something to be taken lightly.

 

[Moonstone]

Not to start a war Nichole, but if BOI was the key to the reptile universe, why is it going away? I see slamfests against people I do business with and people I know and respect all the time. Doesn't change my mind. And I knew about the key scabs in this scenario long before BOI confirmed it.

 

[Omnomnami]

I never said is was the key to the reptile universe, I just simply stated that it has been a big help to several different parties. I know the reptile industry would survive without it, as do most people, but it has been a big help.

I honestly don't see why people are advertising this BOI saying "HELP BY PURCHASING YOUR COINS, IT'S A BIG DEAL!" When I know several respectable breeders without them, including you, Mark!

And I honestly don't understand why the BOI would magically "disappear" if people stopped donating by purchasing their coins. If something was going to happen to the BOI, it seems like it would have happened already.

 

[Omnomnami]

G'night everyone, and good luck with sorting things out, Justin and Nicole...

...Or should I say Justin and Ed...?

 

[hhmoore]

I have a problem with this post how are you going to contradict yourself in the same sentence. 1. I have never spoken to you or Ed over the phone in my life. Only by emails. I feel as though you want to come down on me b/c I state in previous post that Cole09 was created a day before the bann occurred. I asked you to clear it up on the post you stated it was off topic and asked me not to post your emails but here's Ed Clark bringing it up again.

I didn't contradict myself - I said that I had no problem believing that you could have left that message. I also stated that I wasn't saying you did (just that the idea was believable). In a subsequent post, I stated that my not agreeing with the opinion some people were posting was not "proof", and that I was not presenting it as such.
I also didn't ask you not to post my PMs - I told you that the whole topic of your bans is off topic to this thread & didn't belong here...and that, for that reason, I would not address it here. At that point (and at a few others) I advised you that if you wanted to make a public issue of it, you should start a thread in the Fauna Feedback Forum.

HHmoore you may be the moderator and have a little power but right is right wrong is wrong. After the statement you made above that I quoted you emailed me at 1 am asking for my phone number so you can call me???? What it sound to me like you already have you mind made up to what you want to believe. In my opinion you would be basis.

So I sent you a message at 1am - that's when I got back to the computer. It isn't as if I wanted to call you right that minute. Frankly, I don't WANT to talk to you...anymore than I wanted to talk to Nicole. I don't know if you left the message I heard, nor do I really care...the only reason I asked if I could call you was to try to put an end to all this useless back and forth. The reality is that it would be just as likely to not resolve anything...unless I was SURE enough to say definitively that it was, or was not, you.

You always state keep something private as far as I am concerned I have nothing to hide so anything you want to ask me then you can ask me on a thread.

Again, I never said to keep it private (or not to post my emails)...the closest thing I said to that was that The infraction system and the PM system keep most of this stuff private, and that is how the members wanted it. Once upon a time, the infraction points a member had earned were displayed; and, by clicking on that number, one could view the infractions and be linked to the corresponding post. It was nice in a lot of ways, but many people felt it was embarassing to have that information accessible to other members. It probably is better this way, BUT people can't tell that problems have been addressed...and the assumption is often that another member's behavior is being ignored or tolerated.

 

[deborahbroadus]

"The dragon world isnt a big world but it can be when your new and looking for a animal. Face it most people dont do there research on who they are buying from. Some times they just buy, and realize they didnt get the deal they thought they were getting. Or they got screwed."

My advice was, that if you don't have dragon friends, then make some. Good, respectable breeders who are really knowledgable are usually very willing to steer people in the right direction. I get a lot of e mails and I do recommend people to newbies. For those people who "just buy" and get screwed, BOI will not help them. What BOI does do is gives bad buyers a chance to slam reputable breeders and sellers, and gives the people who buy without doing their homework the chance to do it. I am in no way refering to the breeder and buyer in this drawn out miserable bitch session. I have made my decision about the two, and everyone reading has the chance and right to do the same.

I am getting the impression that you are ready to kill off the BOI, Internet sales, and anything other than shows..... IMO, you are the type of person that should be banned from the BOI..if you don't believe in it's worth and don't support it, you shouldn't even BE here I would have you banned just so that you couldn't continue to spread your poison (but it's a free world).

The truth of the statement you posted "What BOI does is gives BAD buyers a chance to slam REPUTABLE breeders," is while there have been some wrongly labeled posts on reputable breeders, they usually straighten out as the post goes on, quite unlike the posts of the DISREPUTABLE breeders who usually end up showing the stripes of their shorts/panties, so having a "Bad guy post is not in and of itself a "slam" it's what was revealed in the post that counts.

Interesting while you are pointing out that this is a long drawn out ***** session that YOU are contributing to it.

(and now me, again ... )

 

[Ed Clark]

As far as banning the OP... I agree with Harald.... kinda hard to ban for something that happened off site.

I don't see it that way at all, he is a fauna member that replied to an ad placed on fauna by another fauna member....it was all fauna related.

 

[deborahbroadus]

I don't see it that way at all, he is a fauna member that replied to an ad placed on fauna by another fauna member....it was all fauna related.

 

[Ed Clark]

In that case.... I apologize Ed. I mistook what you were trying to convey.

Thank you Kevin.

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In a perfect world we would all like to see emails posted to help us draw conclusions. alot of this transaction was on the phone. justin left numerous threats on Nicole's voice mail....thats all we have as proof, at times you work with what you have available to you.

 

[Ed Clark]

If he's banned on YOUR request, imo, it will certainly be the death knell of the BOI.

***I really meant to shut up.....shutting up...carry on.

I am getting the impression that you are ready to kill off the BOI,

(and now me, again ... )

Overdosing on your meds sweetie?

 

[mgl08]

First off HHmoore I have emails where I asked you if I could post the pm you said I should not I have where you stated that I can post them here I don't have a problem with doing that. I'm just saying to stop all the confusion just speak to me in front of everyone. In my opinion in that quote you were contradicting you self all day. You were just trying to cover your self at the same time.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Overdosing on your meds sweetie?

Nah, haven't taken them yet.

ED, Justin didn't handle his side of the deal very well..Nicole didn't come up smelling like roses either and that side link that I read really left a bad taste in my mouth...then again...you certainly have NOT helped issues, so I was getting a tad testy.....

<<off to take some meds and get a shovel>>.....I need them to get though this BS being spewed....

 

[dragonluver83]

Respectifully disagree

Not to start a war Nichole, but if BOI was the key to the reptile universe, why is it going away? I see slamfests against people I do business with and people I know and respect all the time. Doesn't change my mind. And I knew about the key scabs in this scenario long before BOI confirmed it.

The b.o.i. isnt the key to the reptile universe, but it can give you a good idea if you want to buss with a certain person or not. I can see in a way where you see it to be a slamfest. But i see it as a helpful tool to do research on a breeders back ground. And if you have more than one person/friend/buss partner, what have you on the b.o.i. maybe it's cause they do crap buss from time to time. Your not going to show up on the b.o.i repeatedly if you do good buss. Kinda funny you want to use this tool/post/.b.o.i, but you dont want to contribute to it. Maybe 40 yrs ago all they had was reptile expos, and shows. But in this day and age, there are many different ways to sell your reptiles. Internet being a key way to do some of your sales. And whats a better way to keep up with others good business on the web???

I never said is was the key to the reptile universe, I just simply stated that it has been a big help to several different parties. I know the reptile industry would survive without it, as do most people, but it has been a big help.

I honestly don't see why people are advertising this BOI saying "HELP BY PURCHASING YOUR COINS, IT'S A BIG DEAL!" When I know several respectable breeders without them, including you, Mark!

And I honestly don't understand why the BOI would magically "disappear" if people stopped donating by purchasing their coins. If something was going to happen to the BOI, it seems like it would have happened already.

The coins are not for respectable breeders, Nicole. its to help fund the b.o.i. i guess nobody reads other parts of the forum. Rich is about done with his animals. and it cost a reasonable amount of money to keep the b.o.i. up and running. All he is asking for is help from the fauna community. Just alittle funding for the b.o.i. is all he ask for. The b.o.i. wont just disappear, i think he said he's going to try and keep it up for contributing members only. Or something like that. I believe the post i read said something will happen to the b.o.i. at the beginning of 2010. So i guess we will find out.