Bad Guy Nicole Norton Howling Gale dragons

[nick_c]

What so called "crap" have I posted, Ed? I'm sorry you feel this way about me wanting to keep it clean so Nicole and Justin's reputation isn't further spoiled.

I was just hoping that this thread was kept clean for both of their sakes. There for, name calling is kind of ridiculous. If there was a real threat against Nicole this thread should be taken more seriously but until we hear her side of the story, nobody will know. I've actually considered doing business with her in the past and I'm sure others have too...I personally think this thread should be removed do to lack of evidence or at least locked until we hear both ends without confusion. (I've actually had to go back and read Justin's statement several times...until Harald booted him LOL)

You said it yourself, Nicole can't share her part of the story until the police have taken care of it so I think it's best we wait for her end of the story.

Why would my feelings be hurt over this forum...or this thread...w/e? The victim is obviously Nicole, not me so I don't have a single reason to be butt hurt. Do you want me to feel that way?

I'm sorry if I upset you or anything, Ed. Or even made you think that I think ill of Nicole...
It seems like you must know Nicole personally or through business...I have nothing against her, I'm just waiting for her end of the story because if Justin really did make that threat I'm sure everyone would like to know because Justin is really making things look bad for her, and I'm sure things have been hard. I would be scared to death if someone threatened me over such a ridiculous matter...and I'm sure other would too.

Have a nice night,
Nichole

To be tasteful can be difficult at times, so for doing so I applaud you Nichole. And Ed, I do again see your bad buyers point. I do believe however, Nichole from the start(as well as myself) was referring to the threat accusations. I have noticed the accusations are continuous from several third parties as well. But when brought up by a few of us the matter is disreguarded and the subject is changed. It ends up going back to what a bad buyer Justin is(which is pretty clear at this point and no arguement there). Maybe we be a well manored bunch and give the man what we all deserve; innocence until proven otherwise. It's pretty clear there has been NO evidence/proof whatsover of these threats. I feel at this point it's safe to say there will be none. So....maybe we respect that and point the finger at him if they ever find their way in here?

 

[Keith N]

To be tasteful can be difficult at times, so for doing so I applaud you Nichole. And Ed, I do again see your bad buyers point. I do believe however, Nichole from the start(as well as myself) was referring to the threat accusations. I have noticed the accusations are continuous from several third parties as well. But when brought up by a few of us the matter is disreguarded and the subject is changed. It ends up going back to what a bad buyer Justin is(which is pretty clear at this point and no arguement there). Maybe we be a well manored bunch and give the man what we all deserve; innocence until proven otherwise. It's pretty clear there has been NO evidence/proof whatsover of these threats. I feel at this point it's safe to say there will be none. So....maybe we respect that and point the finger at him if they ever find their way in here?

I thought the threats topic was dropped when Ed explained that she was told by authorities not discuss the issue so she would not be commenting or posting on here sees how she cannot post her evidence.

 

[nick_c]

I thought the threats topic was dropped when Ed explained that she was told by authorities not discuss the issue so she would not be commenting or posting on here sees how she cannot post her evidence.

If I had missed something please forgive me. I thought I had read a few posts where it was either being said or implied by others. But my chronological order could be wrong. I will say though, the response in which you quoted was relevant to the matter. I was stating what I believed Nichole's concern was. It was agreed by many the buyer distastefully backed out of the transaction and seems to be a bad buyer. The more pressing and The accusations and assumptions would have to stop in order for it to truly be dropped. Again, I do not personally know either party. Just trying to be neutrally fair.

 

[polasian]

I thought the threats topic was dropped when Ed explained that she was told by authorities not discuss the issue so she would not be commenting or posting on here sees how she cannot post her evidence.

You hear that guys? Next time your name is unfavorably mentioned in the BOI, regurgitate that "legal disclaimer" and your in the clear, or better yet have a 3rd party post it for you. BE SERIOUS!!! If that were the case then every bad guy thread would be stopped dead in its tracks.

This is probably why hearsay is not welcomed. Someone says something about someone that someone allegedly said to them?!?!

Mr lloyd obviously doesn't know how to play by the rules (both as a buyer and as a member of this forum). Hes a deadbeat buyer who apparently didn't, and still doesn't, believe he did anything wrong I see that, and I don't believe Mrs Schaan nor Mr Crawford are disputing it either (I don't mean to put words in their mouths, so if my interpretations are incorrect, I apologize)

Whats still being debated is the threats claim. Ed opened the door to that...now we are supposed to consider it irrelevant? Someone cried rape...prove it...or don't mention it in the first place, otherwise we'll leave here thinking that they simply cried wolf. Mrs Norton cant (or wont) talk about it...so its impossible to determine whether or not its true. Barring any posts by Mrs Norton, the issue wont be resolved, HOWEVER, its FAR from mute.

If this isn't cleared up, Mrs Nortons sales will probably suffer. I, for one, will not put myself in a position where inquiring about a lizard might potentially brand me a man who threatens the life of a woman. I know Mr lloyd did more then inquire, I'm just making a point. So don't give me quotes about how he was the cause for this deal to fall through. I know he put her in a tough spot, what concerns me now is what came out of her mouth afterwards. Mr lloyd may have very well threatened her...then again maybe he didn't. The seed has been planted and your surprised that a tree has grown?

Now, IF the threat claims ARE true (at this point only Mrs Norton, Mr lloyd and maybe Ed know) then I have to commend Ed for being as civil as he has been. About 5 or 6 years ago I had a friend tell me her man was beating her. Hindsight being 20/20, I didn't handle that situation the way that I now know I should have. To this day I lose sleep over that. My point is, when a friend tells you something like that, you get BLINDED with nothing but rage for the aggressor, and unconditional support for your friend. Hence, under the circumstances, Ed is VERY reserved with his comments towards Mr lloyd.

Is Mr lloyd someone you want to sell to? No. Is Mrs Norton someone you want to buy from? . Hopefully we'll eventually find out.

 

[polasian]

wow, this thread sure did bring all the Nick's and Nichole's out of the woodwork

 

[kmurphy]

If this isn't cleared up, Mrs Nortons sales will probably suffer. I, for one, will not put myself in a position where inquiring about a lizard might potentially brand me a man who threatens the life of a woman.

I don't agree. Nicole never made any statements here regarding threats. Those statements were made by Ed and the OP(by posting emails). Since she never made the statements here then she isn't required to back them up here. The OP also never posted any email responses to Nicole disputing the threats, just his statement here that he didn't make them.
It would seem plausible that if they never happened then he would have jumped all over it in an email response (Possibly he did provide proof but they are all gone now).
The OP admits to backing out of the deal and rather then contacting the seller he disputed it directly with paypal. Pretty shabby business IMO.

 

[polasian]

I don't agree. Nicole never made any statements here regarding threats. Those statements were made by Ed and the OP(by posting emails). Since she never made the statements here then she isn't required to back them up here.

But isnt that how this is supposed to work? Allegations and statements are put into play and then the individuals involved respond by proving or disproving said claims. Mrs Norton did not make that statement, correct. However, that statement HAS been made, although be it by a third party. Apparently Ed and Mrs Norton are friends, and hes been her voice all along. Its true that Ed's word is only hearsay, non the less its hard to expect the "jury" to disregard those statements just because they didn't come from the horses mouth. Its highly prejudicial, I agree, however I'm just not able to sweep that under the rug. Some pretty harsh allegations have been voiced, yet no attempts have been made to prove nor disprove them. Apparently that's no fault of Mrs Notons...it's been stated that she was instructed not to comment. As far as the OP...well, hes on vacation...

The OP also never posted any email responses to Nicole disputing the threats, just his statement here that he didn't make them.
It would seem plausible that if they never happened then he would have jumped all over it in an email response (Possibly he did provide proof but they are all gone now).

I believe that the OP claimed that he was not even aware that Mrs Norton had accused him of threatening her. Again, like you said, its hard to go back and quote him since there is nothing left to quote. But I think that only AFTER Ed stated the threats, the OP typed something to the effect of "what is this that she's telling people?" That would explain the OP not disputing her claims via email....because he alleges he wasn't aware that she had even made said claims. Until, or course, Ed made those statements on this thread.

The OP admits to backing out of the deal and rather then contacting the seller he disputed it directly with paypal. Pretty shabby business IMO.

Ultimately, do I believe Ed is lying...NO. Do I believe that's what Ed was told by Mrs Norton...YES. However, my issue is that we have NO CLUE whether or not Mrs Norton is lying to Ed, or if the OP had in fact threatened her. Perhaps I'm making a big deal out of nothing...perhaps all this is just words on a screen...but for God Sakes......

are you the person that threatined to come and slit her throat?

......I just can NOT ignore that. Its not like we're trying to figure out whether or not the OP called Mrs Norton "ugly". Bottom line is, someone is lying about something VERY serious. My question is, WHO???

At the same time I don't want to because there are apparently some legalities and suspensions involved, so I'll just wait around to see what, if anything, comes of this.

 

[ashhogman]

I just wanted to chime in about Nicole, and her dragons.

I purchased her male dragon, Rex, last weekend, and received him Tuesday.

I received him in supurb packaging, and Nicole didn't mind me talking to her about him, or about anything else I wanted to over AIM. I origionally inquired about Antares, and after she told me that there were several others interested, she kindly informed me of her other male dragon who was extremely beautiful as well, Rex.

Rex came alive, and very healthy. He was actually a bit bigger than she described (She said 21 1/2 inches, 625g), as we recorded 22inches and 640g.

Rex is a big, sweet boy, and Nicole's customer service, to me atleast, was very good. After we got him in, she IM'd me to check on him, and see how he was settling in. After informing her he was stessed, she gave me several suggestions to help him settle in.

Nicole really cares for her dragons. I can't say for other transactions, but mine was more than great.

 

[Ed Clark]

Lets address the issue of Justin making threats.

No proof of those will be posted on the BOI as they are not a BOI matter. they are being taken care of by the proper authority.

How many of you have read the rules about posting on the BOI? they clearly state that proof is not required.

For discussion sake lets say no proof of threats ...no issue. what I mean is judge justin only on the way he conducted himself in this transaction with no thoughts of those threats he made, the threats no longer apply here.

My opinion is justin is clearly guilty of being a BAD buyer. every sellers nightmare.

 

[Ed Clark]

I'm not agreeing with anything posted by Justin. There isn't any evidence that any of us can believe.

I'm just saying since there isn't the right ammount of evidence said

Evidence proof its all the same.all the proof to judge justin can be found in what he has posteed in the way he handled this transaction. so as not to cloud the issue the threats no longer apply and are off the table.

Proof is optional, but recommended if you would like to remove any doubts about the truth of what you are posting. But this is purely up to you, just as the believability of what you post is purely up to the reader of your words.

This was quoted from the rules on posting on the BOI, everyone should read the rules. this is just a snipet of them.

 

[ReptileJay]

I was going to just keep quiet on this thread... let it run it's course... but after seeing THIS posted, I simply CANNOT do that...

Lets address the issue of Justin making threats.

No proof of those will be posted on the BOI as they are not a BOI matter. they are being taken care of by the proper authority.

How many of you have read the rules about posting on the BOI? they clearly state that proof is not required.

For discussion sake lets say no proof of threats ...no issue. what I mean is judge justin only on the way he conducted himself in this transaction with no thoughts of those threats he made, the threats no longer apply here.

My opinion is justin is clearly guilty of being a BAD buyer. every sellers nightmare.

Since the OP claimed that he was being accused of making threats, evidence of that really DOES belong on the BOI Ed. Your third party information is simply not good enough, and the fact that it was brought up by both yourself and the OP really makes it rather important to prove true or false.

This thread was not started in order to question the buyer's integrity as a buyer, but as a request for a public apology.

If there actually WAS a threat made, than there must be documentation of that threat.

If this isn't cleared up, Mrs Nortons sales will probably suffer. I, for one, will not put myself in a position where inquiring about a lizard might potentially brand me a man who threatens the life of a woman.

I couldn't agree more with Nick on this... Whether or not the buyer was a good buyer does not matter at this point. All that REALLY matters is whether or not these threats made by the buyer were real, or if they were simply fabricated in an attempt to ruin whatever reputation he may have had.

I am not saying that anyone is lying, but real PROOF (not words from Ed) is required if any clarity on this will ever exist. Until there is proof it would not be right to simply assume that everything said is true.

Yes, while talking with the police she was told to not talk about it or have any contact with Justin.

That just sounds to me like a convenient excuse to avoid posting any evidence.
I think that it is EXTREMELY important (for her own reputation) that Nicole comes in here and tells her side of the story. Perhaps it was best for everyone that the OP is on "vacation". This way there will be no direct communication between Nicole and him. I can see the police telling her to not have contact with Justin, but I cannot think of any reason whatsoever that they would tell her not to talk about the incident.

I know you're trying to be the hero here Ed... but you can't fight this battle for Nicole. Unfortunately she HAS to do it on her own.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Lets address the issue of Justin making threats.

No proof of those will be posted on the BOI as they are not a BOI matter. they are being taken care of by the proper authority.

How many of you have read the rules about posting on the BOI? they clearly state that proof is not required.

For discussion sake lets say no proof of threats ...no issue. what I mean is judge justin only on the way he conducted himself in this transaction with no thoughts of those threats he made, the threats no longer apply here.

My opinion is justin is clearly guilty of being a BAD buyer. every sellers nightmare.

Misdirection tactics rarely RARELY work, but good try.

 

[deborahbroadus]

I was going to just keep quiet on this thread... let it run it's course... but after seeing THIS posted, I simply CANNOT do that...



Since the OP claimed that he was being accused of making threats, evidence of that really DOES belong on the BOI Ed. Your third party information is simply not good enough, and the fact that it was brought up by both yourself and the OP really makes it rather important to prove true or false.

This thread was not started in order to question the buyer's integrity as a buyer, but as a request for a public apology.

If there actually WAS a threat made, than there must be documentation of that threat.


I couldn't agree more with Nick on this... Whether or not the buyer was a good buyer does not matter at this point. All that REALLY matters is whether or not these threats made by the buyer were real, or if they were simply fabricated in an attempt to ruin whatever reputation he may have had.

I am not saying that anyone is lying, but real PROOF (not words from Ed) is required if any clarity on this will ever exist. Until there is proof it would not be right to simply assume that everything said is true.


That just sounds to me like a convenient excuse to avoid posting any evidence.
I think that it is EXTREMELY important (for her own reputation) that Nicole comes in here and tells her side of the story. Perhaps it was best for everyone that the OP is on "vacation". This way there will be no direct communication between Nicole and him. I can see the police telling her to not have contact with Justin, but I cannot think of any reason whatsoever that they would tell her not to talk about the incident.

I know you're trying to be the hero here Ed... but you can't fight this battle for Nicole. Unfortunately she HAS to do it on her own.

 

[dragonluver83]

all threats aside

Lets address the issue of Justin making threats.

No proof of those will be posted on the BOI as they are not a BOI matter. they are being taken care of by the proper authority.

How many of you have read the rules about posting on the BOI? they clearly state that proof is not required.

For discussion sake lets say no proof of threats ...no issue. what I mean is judge justin only on the way he conducted himself in this transaction with no thoughts of those threats he made, the threats no longer apply here.

My opinion is justin is clearly guilty of being a BAD buyer. every sellers nightmare.

Threat aside, i been in the same position as Nicole and after doing all the prep work to post and deal with the customers, it never makes you feel good about refunding any amount of money after a transaction has been completed. No, I personally dont think its right to back out of a deal regardless the excuse. BUT, how as a buss. person are you going to cram your sale down someone else throat??? You cant just say you paid for it less than 24 hours ago and you have to take this animal whether you like it or not? She really had no extra care put into the animal after he paid for it. it wasnt on hold for 3 or 4 days or even a week! So maybe it was a bad buyer bad seller, maybe it was just a situation that was immaturely handled, that could of been handled better.

As far as the threat, i have spoke with Justin before a few times and he seem like a violent guy in any way, and until proof of something serious like a death threat i wouldn't bat an eye! If there is proof i would run with it on here an show everyone what kinda person he really is. Especially to talk to a woman that way. The police may have told her not to have contact with him. But the most that would happen is a "peace order" would be issued and it would be left at that! It may be imperative for Nicole to stand up for herself to protect her rep. Ed you speaking up for her isnt helping the situation. Its actually making it look like shes hiding behind you!

 

[dragonluver83]

"As far as the threat, i have spoke with Justin before a few times and he seem like a violent guy in any way,"

excuse me "Doesnt seem like a violent guy."

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Well one thing is for certain he simply cannot follow the rules here. Harald gave him a time out for three days and he responded by registering a false name.

I just banned his new user name "Frankwhite". He could have been back here posting tomorrow but I'm going to extend that suspension one more week.

Mr. Lloyd don't waste my time. You can 't have it your way here. If you bypass your suspension again will just make it longer and we will be done with you here.

 

[dragonluver83]

what a dummy

Well one thing is for certain he simply cannot follow the rules here. Harald gave him a time out for three days and he responded by registering a false name.

I just banned his new user name "Frankwhite". He could have been back here posting tomorrow but I'm going to extend that suspension one more week.

Mr. Lloyd don't waste my time. You can 't have it your way here. If you bypass your suspension again will just make it longer and we will be done with you here.

Wow, tried to out smart the mods with a false name. thats just not healthy. It seems that there are a few people posting on the b.o.i. that are not getting the "full name" rule. Guess its hard to understand??? and he's banned for another week. lol... im going back to the classified section.

 

[Ed Clark]

Well one thing is for certain he simply cannot follow the rules here. Harald gave him a time out for three days and he responded by registering a false name.

I just banned his new user name "Frankwhite". He could have been back here posting tomorrow but I'm going to extend that suspension one more week.

Mr. Lloyd don't waste my time. You can 't have it your way here. If you bypass your suspension again will just make it longer and we will be done with you here.

Justin Lloyd is showing his true colors here. he will do anything to get what he wants.

Bad buyer now bad poster!!

 

[ReptileJay]

Justin Lloyd is showing his true colors here. he will do anything to get what he wants.

Bad buyer now bad poster!!

Making new accounts to avoid a ban is nowhere even REMOTELY equivalent to threatening someone's life...
Nice try though Ed...

 

[Ed Clark]

Justin Lloyd is showing his true colors here. he will do anything to get what he wants.

Bad buyer now bad poster!!

Jason no where in this post was anything mentioned about threating anyones life.

Making new accounts to avoid a ban is nowhere even REMOTELY equivalent to threatening someone's life...
Nice try though Ed...
__________________
Jason Arnold

You twisting my words to suit your cause just puts bad information on this thread and adds confusion.

Justin is a bad buyer and now a bad member here.