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'No Live Arrival Guarantee'

Lucille

Lucille

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I was reading a frog ad this morning and at the end of the ad, saw this disclaimer. I've seen it from time to time in other ads as well.
I realize that shipping is part of the biz, but why would anyone consider shipping at all if it was so risky that a disclaimer of this nature had to be posted?
There are companies that overall seem to do a good job with their overnight shipping services. If using such a service still leaves one thinking that shipping the particular critter is so risky that a disclaimer on its life needs to be set out, maybe one should do local sales.
 
I've only ever had frogs shipped once, from a very good company, and 2 of the 5 were dead, despite great packing and mild weather. I guess amphibians don't handle the stress as well as reptiles. I see this disclaimer a lot on frogs. Local seems to be the way to go.

Noelle
 
I agree completely. I have been away on a long hiatus, but am now trying to build up my python collection again. I can't speak for frogs because I don't have amphibian experience, I don't think I'd purchase reptiles out of my area if the seller did not guarantee live arrival. Not saying an extended guarantee is necessarily something required, but just that they arrive alive at least.

I know sometimes carriers make mistakes, but I wouldn't say it is the norm and it certainly wouldn't be the buyer's fault. This sounds awful, but that kind of disclaimer would also protect a seller in a case where they didn't use the right service, right packaging, heat packs, or whatever. I guess it just doesn't seem like a win-win policy to me any way I look at it.

Lauren
 
Lucille said:
I was reading a frog ad this morning and at the end of the ad, saw this disclaimer. I've seen it from time to time in other ads as well.
I realize that shipping is part of the biz, but why would anyone consider shipping at all if it was so risky that a disclaimer of this nature had to be posted?
There are companies that overall seem to do a good job with their overnight shipping services. If using such a service still leaves one thinking that shipping the particular critter is so risky that a disclaimer on its life needs to be set out, maybe one should do local sales.
Click to expand...

Because shipping Amphibians is a completely different dynamic than shipping
Reptiles. Certain things need to be addressed, otherwise you'll end up with dead Frogs. Even in some of the best shipping scenarios, Frogs still end up DOA.......

Which leads some people to not guarantee live arrival, just because shipping Frogs can cost the seller more than what they were sold for by the time it's all said and done.......I guarantee live arrival per my TOS, but sometimes Frogs end up dead for no apparent reason.......
 
If the seller is offering shipping, then live arrival should be a given, so long as shipping is done under the conditions set by the seller. Otherwise, IMO, they need to limit all sales to local pick up only. I don't care if it is a reptile or amphibian. If you are not willing to guarantee live arrival, you should not be shipping.

I realize some feel as long as it is clearly stated in their TOS then it is fine, but I disagree. It may absolve you from the business perspective, but not the ethical one. You still have an obligation to the well being of the animal and if you do not feel you can safely get that animal to the buyer, don't go through with the sale.

I think this hobby has progressed enough that some things should be assumed, such as live arrival is guaranteed, and mites don't "just happen" (another one of my pet peeves).
 
I'm kind of back and forth with this one. I do like the fact that they listed the no guarantee, I guess it's better to know first than find out later.
 
Personally, I won't buy from anyone who doesn't guarantee live arrival. I particularly hate ads that say things like "live arrival guaranteed except in the case of carrier delays" or "except when temps areoutside (whatever) range." I've passed on a few animals I really wanted because of the TOS. Imo, if you aren't willing to guarantee in the event of carrier delays, why not use SYR insurance. And why would you ship in temps that you felt you couldn't guarantee live arrival? I've always felt that since the seller is reponsible for providing the buyer with a live animal, shipping temps are up to the seller. As a seller, I won't ship if I feel that the temps are unsafe, no matter how much a buyer wants me to.
 
A person that can not offer at least a guaranteed live arrival should not be shipping anything.

Even tho shipping frogs takes considerable thought when packaging then making sure temps are at optimum levels it's certainly not risky.

Then the fact that you are producing hundreds or even thousands each spawn(depending on what type of frogs you are breeding) giving someone a freebie for a DOA makes good business sense.
 
I bred dartfrogs for the better part of 10 years, and I can say out of that time shipping in almost every month of the year I never lost a frog due to shipment. I did receive a group of frogs from a person one time though that were all cooked in the box because he was too stupid to tape the heat pack up. I do guarantee live arrival, but I could see where people would fear shipping certain frogs giving a live arrival.
I would have to go on the line of if they don't guarantee live arrival then dont do business with them. With proper packaging you would be amazed what those little fragile animals can take. One big thing I would say is a problem with some shippers is using super thin styro during cold months to try and save a few bucks.
 
Absolutely, using the cheaper 1/2" insulated boxes is asking for trouble. for just a little more you can get the 3/4" insulation which will serve you better in the winter and also in the summer when its hot.
hoppingherps said:
One big thing I would say is a problem with some shippers is using super thin styro during cold months to try and save a few bucks.
Click to expand...
 
My conscience would not let me ship an animal into harms way. I don't deal with amphibians but if the animal can't handle it safely than it shouldn't be shipped. I tell people that I reserve the right to delay the shipment if the weather does not look good. I have had people tell me I don't care send it to me today! And I simply tell them the animals health comes first and I will gladly refund their money if they don't want to wait.
 
Wait. A LAG does not make shipping any safer for the rider.

I think some are thinking that it could relate to the sellers inability to safely ship. It very well could mean exactly what it says, I won't guarantee if you want me to ship.

Shipping is dangerous no matter who you are or how well you package. The best of the best get DOA's. We have all grabbed something off a clearnace rack once in our lives that contains no return policy. You know what you are getting yourself into before you purchase.

I would never buy without a LAG, as would many, but this seller could very well be using a shipper that could have a LAG, like SYR.

If you think you are above and beyond getting a DOA when your package is in a third parties hand, you are riding a tall horse :p No one is flawless when you have a box kicker transporting your product.
 
Focal said:
If you think you are above and beyond getting a DOA when your package is in a third parties hand, you are riding a tall horse :p No one is flawless when you have a box kicker transporting your product.
Click to expand...

Well said and a very good point. I've always been curious about shipping very expensive snakes ($10k+) across the country. I don't think I would trust FedEx Express delivering a Banana Ball if I'm ever fortunate enough to buy or sell one.

Has anyone heard of using Fed Ex Custom Critical or another custom shipper for high value shipments? I'd gladly eat the cost of a round trip plane ticket to pick up such a snake in person (either as buyer or seller) but I doubt TSA would allow it on the plane.
 
Don't most snakes ship via delta dash?

I do understand as a shipper I am always taking a risk but I was saying that for me my priority is the animal - then the customer - and cost last. And even though they are a bunch of "box kickers" I think a smile and a clearly marked box goes a long way. I have had many customers tell me that they saw the UPS man grab the box from the front seat of the truck and walk it up.
 
GreathouseFarm said:
Don't most snakes ship via delta dash?

I do understand as a shipper I am always taking a risk but I was saying that for me my priority is the animal - then the customer - and cost last. And even though they are a bunch of "box kickers" I think a smile and a clearly marked box goes a long way. I have had many customers tell me that they saw the UPS man grab the box from the front seat of the truck and walk it up.
Click to expand...

Many ball pythons are shipped Fed Ex. Larger snakes and venomous are shipped Delta Dash but someone please correct me if I'm mistaken. I wouldn't see the difference between Delta Dash and Fed Ex though in regards to the absolutely safety of shipping an extremely expensive and fragile (compared to most things shipped) animal.

We're on the same page with our priorities. However, like Nick said, DOAs do happen even with most meticulously packed shipment.
 
Your right just because same day air is faster doesn't make it safer...

Oh I know. I had a DOA once and it was a direct result of me overcompensating for cold weather ;( so sad... but I never make the same mistake twice.

I think the main point is if buyers want a LAG they have to comply with the sellers terms on it. And they should be understanding of what the seller can and can not do in certain situations.
 
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