Bad Guy Noah Miller

[Bighaze]

I hope this is the right place for this.

First I would like to say I don't run to the BOI every time someone upsets me, but this time......

I have a proven 06' normal female ball python for sale, and I posted her on CL for $100, so I could find a local buyer.

Tonight I get an e-mail from Noah Miller saying he would buy her but I'm asking too much. So I reply that is what they go for online, but to make me an offer.

Now I know people who are "hooked up" can get good deals, and I see nothing wrong with that, but if you get proven breeders for $40.00 why would you even take the time to e-mail someone selling his for $100.00, and tell him he is asking too much, and then call him a f%$# stick?

here are all the e-mails, I would stay away from this guy........

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2006 CB 0.1 Ball Python (Tampa)Friday, May 27, 2011 7:33 PM
From: "noah miller" <[email protected]>Add sender to Contacts
To: [email protected]
** CRAIGSLIST ADVISORY --- AVOID SCAMS BY DEALING LOCALLY
** Avoid: wiring money, cross-border deals, work-at-home
** Beware: cashier checks, money orders, escrow, shipping
** More Info: http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams.html


Id be interested but that's too much for a normal
http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/pet/2405734326.html

this message was remailed to you via: [email protected]

My 1st reply

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Re: 2006 CB 0.1 Ball Python (Tampa)Friday, May 27, 2011 7:41 PM
From: "Bruce Ungerer" <[email protected]>View contact details
To: "noah miller" <[email protected]>

Well on Ke, and Fauna Classifieds..Normal proven breeder females go for $75.00-$150.00 so....

I am open to offers as I need the cage space for new project, however I'm not going to just give her away......

his next reply

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Re: 2006 CB 0.1 Ball Python (Tampa)Friday, May 27, 2011 7:42 PM
From: This sender is DomainKeys verified"noah miller" <[email protected]>Add sender to Contacts
To: "Bruce Ungerer" <[email protected]>

So nothing! That's full blown retail. I get them for $40

My next reply was.

Re: 2006 CB 0.1 Ball Python (Tampa)Friday, May 27, 2011 7:47 PM
From: "Bruce Ungerer" <[email protected]>View contact details
To: "noah miller" <[email protected]>

well then get them for 40..........I didn't ask you to buy mine......What was your point in e-mailing me then if you didn't want her, or were you just hoping to low ball someone who didn't know what they had?

Don't be that guy.................no one invites that guy to the party.....

Have a nice day.

Now I will be the first to say maybe I could of replied a little better...but I don't think I deserved this...

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Re: 2006 CB 0.1 Ball Python (Tampa)Friday, May 27, 2011 7:49 PM
From: This sender is DomainKeys verified"noah miller" <[email protected]>Add sender to Contacts
To: "Bruce Ungerer" <[email protected]>

Look stick! Id buy it but not for 100 bucks. Have a good one trying to sell that trash for that much.

My next reply was.

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Re: 2006 CB 0.1 Ball Python (Tampa)Friday, May 27, 2011 8:04 PM
From: "Bruce Ungerer" <[email protected]>View contact details
To: "noah miller" <[email protected]>

you know I tried to ask you to make an offer as I was open to one. However you didn't make one...Thats cool, it's well within your right not to make an offer.....

Now you Call me a F' stick.......Nice .....

Have a good day.

(now with this e-mail, I did re type it a few times, and I had leftovers from copying and pasting and what not. That did get sent to him,[I wouldn't sell you a dead rat for $1,000.00 these e-mails will be posted to the BOI, I'll just add them to one of your many posts on] and thats where I had stopped, I did a search on him, and 3 post in the BOI came up, but I didn't take the time to read them, so I thought I had deleted that part.)

Anyway I know I didn't get ripped off or anything, I just wanted to share what kind of person he is.

 

[Bighaze]

I have sent him an e-mail telling about this post.....

 

[Lucille]

Don't be that guy.................no one invites that guy to the party.....

Have a nice day.

Now I will be the first to say maybe I could of replied a little better...but I don't think I deserved this...

So you toss off a nasty little barb and get your panties in a wad when the guy comes back at you. THAT'S a BOI post? Get real........

 

[Bighaze]

thats really just a saying...... I never thought of it as a "nasty little barb"

In fact I have never seen, or head of anyone not taking that as just way to say

"hang on a min don't you think thats just bit harsh" so to say....

But I did say "I will be the first to say maybe I could of replied a little better"

 

[Lucille]

But I did say "I will be the first to say maybe I could of replied a little better"

Yeah, You baited him, he comes back at you. What did you expect. This is not the kind of stuff you should bring here IMHO especially since you initiated the escalation of the conversation.

 

[Bighaze]

you may be right about bringing it here, I wasn't sure.

But from my POV he initiated the escalation of the conversation when he said

"So nothing! That's full blown retail. I get them for $40"

I wasn't posting her on a wholesale website, and I kind of took it personal....and reacted as such....but I still don't think he should of call me a f%$# stick....

if this isn't the right place to post about this, then by all means remove it.... I just relay wanted to hear if anyone else had anything like this with him...

 

[Bighaze]

Oh yea forgot to say my ad did say obo......

 

[mainbutter]

Not exactly the worst thing here on the BOI, but that kind of behavior is more than completely unprofessional enough that now I know I wouldn't want two words with that guy. More people need to realize that acting out like that has consequences, and won't necessarily be kept private.

 

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I for one am thankful when stuff like this gets posted on the BOI. Even though it's likely I would have never spoken with this person anyways, now I know he is a person I would not deal with. Anyone who speaks that way to a potential seller does not deserve snakes. ESPECIALLY a person who is referring to a snake as "trash". Since when is ANY SNAKE trash? That was the deal sealer for me! Yes, maybe OP was a bit antagonistic but at least they don't refer to snakes as trash!

 

[scaledverts]

First I would like to say I don't run to the BOI every time someone upsets me, but this time......

But you did? I am not one to discourage someone from posting a BOI thread very often. But this is just ridiculous IMO.

Low balling happens all the time. And you didn't get what I would consider rude responses until you baited him with your own rude responses because you were upset he low balled you (highlighted in the below quote).

Id be interested but that's too much for a normal
http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/pet/2405734326.html

this message was remailed to you via: [email protected]

My 1st reply

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Re: 2006 CB 0.1 Ball Python (Tampa)Friday, May 27, 2011 7:41 PM
From: "Bruce Ungerer" View contact details
To: "noah miller"

Well on Ke, and Fauna Classifieds..Normal proven breeder females go for $75.00-$150.00 so....

I am open to offers as I need the cage space for new project, however I'm not going to just give her away......

his next reply

Flag this message
Re: 2006 CB 0.1 Ball Python (Tampa)Friday, May 27, 2011 7:42 PM
From: This sender is DomainKeys verified"noah miller" Add sender to Contacts
To: "Bruce Ungerer"

So nothing! That's full blown retail. I get them for $40

My next reply was.

Re: 2006 CB 0.1 Ball Python (Tampa)Friday, May 27, 2011 7:47 PM
From: "Bruce Ungerer" View contact details
To: "noah miller"

well then get them for 40..........I didn't ask you to buy mine......What was your point in e-mailing me then if you didn't want her, or were you just hoping to low ball someone who didn't know what they had?

Don't be that guy.................no one invites that guy to the party.....

Have a nice day.

If you spoke to me that way, you would likely get a fair bit of attitude from me too. You are free to charge what you want for your snakes. That being said, you can regularly find proven breeder female normals for around 50 bucks at reptile shows. So yes he did low ball offer you but lets be real it is craigslist. I would not expect to get the same type of responses to an add on craigslist as I would say here. Also, not bring up the standard craigslist reply post but the craigslist terms of service says it is not for retail. So you really shouldn't be surprised when people have an attitude when you are trying to get retail for your animal. That's part of posting adds on craigslist.

This SHOULD NOT be here IMO.

 

[the gecko geek]

Whether this thread should be here or not isn't really the case IMO. As stated by the OP,
He was just trying to inform people of how this person acts towards transactions, and
what they think of reptiles. I wouldn't sell someone anything remotely close to living that
referred to it as trash.

The post wasn't about the OP's feelings getting hurt, it was to inform the rest of us of this
persons behavior. Which IMO, is the best thing that could have been done.

 

[Bighaze]

Kyle, I have been a member here for something like 7 years.......and if I remember right this is my first BOI Thread ever....may-be the 2nd.....so no I really don't run to the BOI with everything.

you said

"So you really shouldn't be surprised when people have an attitude when you are trying to get retail for your animal."

See from my POV (and of course I could be wrong) why would someone get an attitude when they contacted me, I didn't call him begging for him to look at my ad, or to buy my snake....

I see things (as I'm sure we all do) that I think are over priced everyday... I don't think I have ever gone to a store just give them attitude over there price....I just move on to some one/place that has a better price.

anyway I do thank you all for the reply's ... I know I need to remember what is just a harmless saying to one person can be misunderstood by another.....

 

[LauraB]

If you spoke to me that way, you would likely get a fair bit of attitude from me too.

True that.

BUT, if a "browser" opened that can o worms FIRST this way, " Look stick! I'd buy it but not for 100 bucks. Have a good one trying to sell that trash for that much", I would probably respond with the same fair bit of attitude (that frankly didn't strike me as all that shocking or unreasonable)

You don't like my asking price, then keep on walkin'. Find what you want at the price you want. Don't email baiting me with words like stick and "trash". You email me with that bait, I'm gonna respond in kind.

If the price is too high, the seller will figure it out when it doesn't sell. Then the seller will normally adjust the price accordingly. No need to goad/insult someone just to get a better price.

Yeah, low-balling is part of the trade ... but rational, calm, friendly negotiation works better than insults and name-calling, IMO.

 

[radera5]

All this talk about Bruce baiting this man by him saying what exactly?? That is just a LAME excuse for anyone to defend this man. I am no snake person myself, but to call them trash???? Let me see ANYONE call ANY animal trash, unless I called your mother some name, I dont think there is any "justified" baiting going on here. If someone contacts me and the most sarcastic thing I say is along the lines of "well then get them for 40..........I didn't ask you to buy mine......What was your point in e-mailing me then if you didn't want her, or were you just hoping to low ball someone who didn't know what they had?

Don't be that guy.................no one invites that guy to the party.....

Have a nice day."-------------COME ON!! Bruce was simply telling a guy who to me looked after only two emails like he was not going to stop talking about how cheap he can find them, to go buy them for $40.
The other main point in my eyes here is if someone starts low-balling, and they get a sarcastic response from someone, are we just saying that person (the low- baller) should just be able to go off at the mouth??? I think if that whole conversation WOULD have happened here on Fauna, things would be a bit different. I would have to guess if I called ANY crested gecko "trash" here on Fauna, I probably would not be selling many more crested geckos here on Fauna. I am all for trying to negotiate for a better price, and on the other end, I am very used to low-ballers coming my way throwing me crazy offers. I like to believe I have never been too sarcastic with any of these customers, but the day it happens (not saying it will, please do not get me wrong here) and I get a response like that, YES I will be warning fellow users here of exactly "who" thinks "what" is trash! Thats just ridiculous to try and justify this mans obvious "love" for snakes (sarcasm!) by saying he was baited into saying this. If this man would have lashed out on the seller with the whole F*** Stick thing, I could have easily agreed with many of you. Problem I have though, seeing how I am on Fauna everyday, I love animals way to much to hear someone calling them trash, then hearing other animal lovers try and justify his words!! Amazing to me that not more of you are thanking Bruce. Thanks Bruce!!---Thank You.
Please understand this is just my POV, I am not looking for a fight here, if someone disagrees I am sure I will hear about it but please lets keep things respectable. TY

 

[chondrogal]

It is against CL TOU to sell pets so OP should not have put up an ad selling the snake in the first place on CL site. I doubt the responder of the ad ever intended to make an offer, he should have just flagged the ad and moved on.

CL TOU statement:

Partial list of items for sale and services the advertisement of which is not permitted on craigslist:

Household pets of any kind including but not limited to dogs, cats, primates, cage birds, rodents, reptiles, amphibians, fish. Re-homing with small adoption fee OK

 

[Bighaze]

It is against CL TOU to sell pets so OP should not have put up an ad selling the snake in the first place on CL site. I doubt the responder of the ad ever intended to make an offer, he should have just flagged the ad and moved on.

CL TOU statement:

Partial list of items for sale and services the advertisement of which is not permitted on craigslist:

Household pets of any kind including but not limited to dogs, cats, primates, cage birds, rodents, reptiles, amphibians, fish. Re-homing with small adoption fee OK

"Re-homing with small adoption fee OK"

And that would be the loop hole.......look on many CL's in many area's.....

It's one of the best way's to sell local. And I kinda like getting to meet the person who buy's my snake. You don't get that if you ship...

 

[Morelia4life]

Who cares if this should be here or not? Bruce was trying to do the right thing and inform us about a guy that refers to snakes as "trash". IMO, it is right where it belongs. Even if Bruce did "bait" him or whatever someone said, that doesn't mean the potential buyer has the right to call snakes "trash" and call Bruce a F'ing stick. I have seen plenty of normal ball pythons for sale at locale reptile shows around here for $85 to $100. I have also seen plenty of normal ball pythons on CL around here for that much. If someone wants to buy a normal bp for $100 then let them. No one forced that guy to buy the bp for $100.

 

[Michael Brown]

All this talk about Bruce baiting this man by him saying what exactly?? That is just a LAME excuse for anyone to defend this man. I am no snake person myself, but to call them trash???? Let me see ANYONE call ANY animal trash, unless I called your mother some name, I dont think there is any "justified" baiting going on here. If someone contacts me and the most sarcastic thing I say is along the lines of "well then get them for 40..........I didn't ask you to buy mine......What was your point in e-mailing me then if you didn't want her, or were you just hoping to low ball someone who didn't know what they had?

Don't be that guy.................no one invites that guy to the party.....

Have a nice day."-------------COME ON!! Bruce was simply telling a guy who to me looked after only two emails like he was not going to stop talking about how cheap he can find them, to go buy them for $40.
The other main point in my eyes here is if someone starts low-balling, and they get a sarcastic response from someone, are we just saying that person (the low- baller) should just be able to go off at the mouth??? I think if that whole conversation WOULD have happened here on Fauna, things would be a bit different. I would have to guess if I called ANY crested gecko "trash" here on Fauna, I probably would not be selling many more crested geckos here on Fauna. I am all for trying to negotiate for a better price, and on the other end, I am very used to low-ballers coming my way throwing me crazy offers. I like to believe I have never been too sarcastic with any of these customers, but the day it happens (not saying it will, please do not get me wrong here) and I get a response like that, YES I will be warning fellow users here of exactly "who" thinks "what" is trash! Thats just ridiculous to try and justify this mans obvious "love" for snakes (sarcasm!) by saying he was baited into saying this. If this man would have lashed out on the seller with the whole F*** Stick thing, I could have easily agreed with many of you. Problem I have though, seeing how I am on Fauna everyday, I love animals way to much to hear someone calling them trash, then hearing other animal lovers try and justify his words!! Amazing to me that not more of you are thanking Bruce. Thanks Bruce!!---Thank You.
Please understand this is just my POV, I am not looking for a fight here, if someone disagrees I am sure I will hear about it but please lets keep things respectable. TY

Well put. IMO this should be here. I bet bruce wouldn't have said that stuff in person, just hides behind emails calling animals trash and giving the hobby an overal bad look.

 

[Bighaze]

Uhm........., Bruce (me) is the OP, not the one who called the snake trash........

The one who called snakes trash was Noah Miller.....